The Best Filter? is there such a thing?

MikePerham · 10-31-2009, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by WerTicus

Hoya IS Kenko

The relationship between Hoya and Kenko is not the same as that with Pentax. Pentax is Hoya, but while Hoya and Kenko have a close working realationship, and each may well own some shares of the other they are not the same company. I suspect there is some shared manufaturing and technology here but each is separate. I understand that Kenko produce the rings for Hoya filters, and obviously, Hoya produce the glass for Kenko. In any event, Hoya does not offer their HD filters in 49mm at this time but Kenko does offer that size in their Zeta line.

creampuff · 10-31-2009, 04:17 PM

Go to Japan and you won't find any Hoya filters in the shops... but Kenko.

Spock · 10-31-2009, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by MikePerham

HD stands for High Definition, and these filters are tough - employing a technology used in eye glasses to make the glass stronger. Also the polarizers have less light loss,

Yes but the Super HMC filters are cheaper and let through more light (apart from the polarizer versions) and thus affect IQ less - so unless people plan to go into combat with their filters - the HD filters seem a bit of overkill.

F8&Bthere · 11-13-2009, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by WerTicus

Hoya IS Kenko

True but isn't it curious that the aforementioned filter reviews and comparisons at lenstip.com give very different results/ratings to Kenko and like item under Hoya label?

The thing that gets me about filters the most is the prices. For example, I just bought a Marumi Super DHG 77mm CPL made in Japan (rated #1 overall in the Lenstip review) online for about CA$88 delivered to my door and a Hoya Super HMC 77mm CPL at my nearest camera store (70km away) is CA$250

Bart · 11-13-2009, 12:54 PM

+ 1 for B+W MRC F-Pro or B+W MRC XS Pro.

Indecent Exposure · 11-14-2009, 12:17 AM

How is it no one mentioned Heliopan?

For example on my 50mmFA f2 has an s52 KR Skylight-0.

INMHO Heliopan manufactures the very best lens filters ever made.

joele · 11-14-2009, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by Indecent Exposure

How is it no one mentioned Heliopan?

Unfortunately they didn't do so well in the only comprehensive comparison I have found so far..

Polarizing filters test - Heliopan ES Pol circ. SH-PMC 72 mm - Lenstip.com

Polarizing filters test - Heliopan ES Pol circ. Kasemann 72 mm - Lenstip.com

newarts · 11-14-2009, 06:38 AM

The "which is best" question is difficult to address without specifying factors with which to weigh an exhaustive list of parameters.

It is a little easier (but not by much) to address a question like "which has no detectable, deleterious side effects?", but this also requires an impossibly long list of criteria, including such things as "manufacturing oil on ring" or "ugliness of engraving."

Responses that *require* a device to be expensive to be "best" are silly unless "high cost" is listed as an objective measure of "best". While high performance devices are often positively correlated with high cost, cost can be only an indirect correlate of any other property... it costs a lot less to hand figure an optical device in certain prisons than at a high end optics firm in Zurich.

Find the most expensive filter you can; I will sell you one for more; a lot more.

I am sorry for this sophomoric plea for precision in language, but only a little sorry.

Dave in Iowa

Indecent Exposure · 11-14-2009, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by newarts

The "which is best" question is difficult to address without specifying factors with which to weigh an exhaustive list of parameters.

It is a little easier (but not by much) to address a question like "which has no detectable, deleterious side effects?", but this also requires an impossibly long list of criteria, including such things as "manufacturing oil on ring" or "ugliness of engraving."

Responses that *require* a device to be expensive to be "best" are silly unless "high cost" is listed as an objective measure of "best". While high performance devices are often positively correlated with high cost, cost can be only an indirect correlate of any other property... it costs a lot less to hand figure an optical device in certain prisons than at a high end optics firm in Zurich.

Find the most expensive filter you can; I will sell you one for more; a lot more.

I am sorry for this sophomoric plea for precision in language, but only a little sorry.

Dave in Iowa

Yes sophomoric but with such pomposity one could not imagine.

The reason for suggesting Heliopan with due respect.

The Schott glass, the slim mount, brass rings and threads. Without using cost as a factor. Having mounted a plethora of filters form a multitude of manufacturers.

I find Heliopan performance the best so far. The Hoya glass has also proven to be quite profoundly exceptional.

This is based on the 30 years of photographic work experience. I am a bit partial to Heliopan from the experience with full frame film.

But my findings are ringing the same accolades with the advent of digital.

I do not look at reviews or tests, I look at what has worked with the best results in capturing images.

I fart in your general direction! ... and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

IDE

**Mallee Boy** · 11-14-2009, 11:07 PM

Hi Dave,
My original question was generic and very open ended, as most dumb questions are.

With reference to CPL's the question would be which does the best job of reducing glare etc, which they all claim to be the best at.

I now have a couple of different brands and will have a bit of fun one day soon carrying out my own tests to see which suits my needs the best, before buying anymore.
Cheers
Grant

lesmore49 · 11-14-2009, 11:51 PM

I use B + W UV filters on all my modern lenses. I've been happy with them. Wish I could fit a B + W filter on my Pentax 10-17 fisheye..

newarts · 11-15-2009, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by Indecent Exposure

....

The reason for suggesting Heliopan with due respect.

The Schott glass, the slim mount, brass rings and threads. Without using cost as a factor. Having mounted a plethora of filters form a multitude of manufacturers......

Yay! Reasons for claim of general superiority! Yay! Tone of generalization! Yay yay! Exclusion of price as direct measure of quality! Yay! Yay! Yay!

Quote:

I fart in your general direction! ... and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
IDE

Elderberries? Elderberries? I am stunned by the poetic beauty of your tauntaolgy!

Dave in Iowa

newarts · 11-15-2009, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by Mallee Boy

...
With reference to CPL's the question would be which does the best job of reducing glare etc, which they all claim to be the best at....

I think they are all pretty good at reducing glare due to polarization because of the underlying physics and OEM materials available; "best" will be found in peripheral matters (ie a difference in extinction coefficient between .995 and .998 will be insignificant compared to distortion introduction due to non-flat glass).

Details to consider might include Brass vs Aluminum for long term anti-binding & smoothness of operation, Engraved alignment marks, Multicoating for flare reduction, etc..

Optical things to consider might include lack of tint and the fraction of unpolarized light passed...I think Hoya has a new line that is good in this area.

Quote:

I now have a couple of different brands and will have a bit of fun one day soon carrying out my own tests to see which suits my needs the best, before buying anymore
Cheers
Grant

I look forward to hearing/seeing your results!

wll · 11-15-2009, 07:03 AM

The B+W's UV Haze 010 (MRC) Multi-Resistant Coating F-Pro.

I don't know if it is the "BEST" or not, but it is definitely high quality. I figure if I'm spending a small (not so small) fortune in glass, a less than quality filter ruins your purchase.

I have been very pleased with the quality of the glass and the quality of the filter ring on these filters.

wll

Enigmaticca · 09-25-2013, 10:28 PM

For my part I've used various filters over the years including HOYA HMC/Pro1D/HD, B+W XS-PRO MRC and Tiffens of all sorts but by far and away I've found Kenko Zeta's to be the best in terms of their flare & reflection control and overall construction.

The Zeta's are easy to clean too. I don't know if they are the same glass as the HOYA HD but the ring assembly and fit is far superior to the HD's.

My 2c

11-14-2009, 06:38 AM	#23
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	The "which is best" question is difficult to address without specifying factors with which to weigh an exhaustive list of parameters. It is a little easier (but not by much) to address a question like "which has no detectable, deleterious side effects?", but this also requires an impossibly long list of criteria, including such things as "manufacturing oil on ring" or "ugliness of engraving." Responses that require a device to be expensive to be "best" are silly unless "high cost" is listed as an objective measure of "best". While high performance devices are often positively correlated with high cost, cost can be only an indirect correlate of any other property... it costs a lot less to hand figure an optical device in certain prisons than at a high end optics firm in Zurich. Find the most expensive filter you can; I will sell you one for more; a lot more. I am sorry for this sophomoric plea for precision in language, but only a little sorry. Dave in Iowa Last edited by newarts; 11-14-2009 at 06:56 AM.

11-14-2009, 08:41 PM	#24
Indecent Exposure Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 78	Originally posted by newarts The "which is best" question is difficult to address without specifying factors with which to weigh an exhaustive list of parameters. It is a little easier (but not by much) to address a question like "which has no detectable, deleterious side effects?", but this also requires an impossibly long list of criteria, including such things as "manufacturing oil on ring" or "ugliness of engraving." Responses that require a device to be expensive to be "best" are silly unless "high cost" is listed as an objective measure of "best". While high performance devices are often positively correlated with high cost, cost can be only an indirect correlate of any other property... it costs a lot less to hand figure an optical device in certain prisons than at a high end optics firm in Zurich. Find the most expensive filter you can; I will sell you one for more; a lot more. I am sorry for this sophomoric plea for precision in language, but only a little sorry. Dave in Iowa Yes sophomoric but with such pomposity one could not imagine. The reason for suggesting Heliopan with due respect. The Schott glass, the slim mount, brass rings and threads. Without using cost as a factor. Having mounted a plethora of filters form a multitude of manufacturers. I find Heliopan performance the best so far. The Hoya glass has also proven to be quite profoundly exceptional. This is based on the 30 years of photographic work experience. I am a bit partial to Heliopan from the experience with full frame film. But my findings are ringing the same accolades with the advent of digital. I do not look at reviews or tests, I look at what has worked with the best results in capturing images. I fart in your general direction! ... and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time. IDE Last edited by Indecent Exposure; 11-14-2009 at 09:08 PM. Reason: mo inf

11-15-2009, 07:03 AM	#29
wll Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mission Hills, CA Posts: 773	My UV Filter On All My Lenses Is The B+W's UV Haze 010 (MRC) Multi-Resistant Coating F-Pro. I don't know if it is the "BEST" or not, but it is definitely high quality. I figure if I'm spending a small (not so small) fortune in glass, a less than quality filter ruins your purchase. I have been very pleased with the quality of the glass and the quality of the filter ring on these filters. wll

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10-31-2009, 02:56 PM	#16
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by WerTicus Hoya IS Kenko The relationship between Hoya and Kenko is not the same as that with Pentax. Pentax is Hoya, but while Hoya and Kenko have a close working realationship, and each may well own some shares of the other they are not the same company. I suspect there is some shared manufaturing and technology here but each is separate. I understand that Kenko produce the rings for Hoya filters, and obviously, Hoya produce the glass for Kenko. In any event, Hoya does not offer their HD filters in 49mm at this time but Kenko does offer that size in their Zeta line.

10-31-2009, 04:17 PM	#17
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Go to Japan and you won't find any Hoya filters in the shops... but Kenko.

10-31-2009, 05:20 PM	#18
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Originally posted by MikePerham HD stands for High Definition, and these filters are tough - employing a technology used in eye glasses to make the glass stronger. Also the polarizers have less light loss, Yes but the Super HMC filters are cheaper and let through more light (apart from the polarizer versions) and thus affect IQ less - so unless people plan to go into combat with their filters - the HD filters seem a bit of overkill.

11-13-2009, 11:58 AM	#19
F8&Bthere Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Western Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 37	Originally posted by WerTicus Hoya IS Kenko True but isn't it curious that the aforementioned filter reviews and comparisons at lenstip.com give very different results/ratings to Kenko and like item under Hoya label? The thing that gets me about filters the most is the prices. For example, I just bought a Marumi Super DHG 77mm CPL made in Japan (rated #1 overall in the Lenstip review) online for about CA$88 delivered to my door and a Hoya Super HMC 77mm CPL at my nearest camera store (70km away) is CA$250

11-13-2009, 12:54 PM	#20
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	+ 1 for B+W MRC F-Pro or B+W MRC XS Pro.

11-14-2009, 12:17 AM	#21
Indecent Exposure Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 78	How is it no one mentioned Heliopan? For example on my 50mmFA f2 has an s52 KR Skylight-0. INMHO Heliopan manufactures the very best lens filters ever made.

11-14-2009, 03:47 AM	#22
joele Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308	Originally posted by Indecent Exposure How is it no one mentioned Heliopan? Unfortunately they didn't do so well in the only comprehensive comparison I have found so far.. Polarizing filters test - Heliopan ES Pol circ. SH-PMC 72 mm - Lenstip.com Polarizing filters test - Heliopan ES Pol circ. Kasemann 72 mm - Lenstip.com

11-14-2009, 11:07 PM	#25
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904 Original Poster	Hi Dave, My original question was generic and very open ended, as most dumb questions are. With reference to CPL's the question would be which does the best job of reducing glare etc, which they all claim to be the best at. I now have a couple of different brands and will have a bit of fun one day soon carrying out my own tests to see which suits my needs the best, before buying anymore. Cheers Grant

11-14-2009, 11:51 PM	#26
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,344	I use B + W UV filters on all my modern lenses. I've been happy with them. Wish I could fit a B + W filter on my Pentax 10-17 fisheye..

11-15-2009, 03:10 AM	#27
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	Originally posted by Indecent Exposure .... The reason for suggesting Heliopan with due respect. The Schott glass, the slim mount, brass rings and threads. Without using cost as a factor. Having mounted a plethora of filters form a multitude of manufacturers...... Yay! Reasons for claim of general superiority! Yay! Tone of generalization! Yay yay! Exclusion of price as direct measure of quality! Yay! Yay! Yay! Quote: I fart in your general direction! ... and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time. IDE Elderberries? *Elderberries?* I am stunned by the poetic beauty of your tauntaolgy! Dave in Iowa

11-15-2009, 03:36 AM	#28
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	Originally posted by Mallee Boy ... With reference to CPL's the question would be which does the best job of reducing glare etc, which they all claim to be the best at.... I think they are all pretty good at reducing glare due to polarization because of the underlying physics and OEM materials available; "best" will be found in peripheral matters (ie a difference in extinction coefficient between .995 and .998 will be insignificant compared to distortion introduction due to non-flat glass). Details to consider might include Brass vs Aluminum for long term anti-binding & smoothness of operation, Engraved alignment marks, Multicoating for flare reduction, etc.. Optical things to consider might include lack of tint and the fraction of unpolarized light passed...I think Hoya has a new line that is good in this area. Quote: I now have a couple of different brands and will have a bit of fun one day soon carrying out my own tests to see which suits my needs the best, before buying anymore Cheers Grant I look forward to hearing/seeing your results!

09-25-2013, 10:28 PM	#30
Enigmaticca Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 311	For my part I've used various filters over the years including HOYA HMC/Pro1D/HD, B+W XS-PRO MRC and Tiffens of all sorts but by far and away I've found Kenko Zeta's to be the best in terms of their flare & reflection control and overall construction. The Zeta's are easy to clean too. I don't know if they are the same glass as the HOYA HD but the ring assembly and fit is far superior to the HD's. My 2c