20/21mm range Primes - Pentax - Voigtlander - Zeiss?

Spotmatic · 11-01-2009, 07:19 AM

My vote is for the DA 21.

The DA 15 is a fine lens too. The more I use it the more I like it. I thought I would sell the 12-24 but....not yet.

The Zeiss lenses are simply excellent. I have the ZK 25 Distagon and really like it on a crop sensor. I don't think anyone would be unhappy with a ZK in their favorite focal length.

All lens opinions/reviews mean little....including mine. It only matters if YOU like a lens.

**interested_observer** · 11-01-2009, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Jacques Balthazar

I'd say that if you shoot film or believe in a coming FF DSLR, and prefer the MX/K7 + pancake style of "small is beautiful", the Voigtlander becomes best option in terms of currently produced lenses. If you only shoot digital and do not believe Pentax will go FF, then the DA is a no-brainer. The Zeiss is very large and heavy on top of being expensive. Might just as well go for a 16-50 or 12-24 at that size/weight....

I have the 21 DA, and it is plenty good. But I regret not having opted for the Voigtlander, as it would also have been a great super-wide to use with the MX....

When I selected the K100, there was the FF argument going on then - 4 years ago. Still going. Even if Pentax comes out with a FF, I have my investment in ASP-C glass, and I am staying put, as I have no interest in moving. Now with the K20 - I am happy, so just looking to supplement my lens set - with a lighter and smaller option to the 12-24 that stays mounted most of the time.

So, it appears (and I am not surprised at all), that its the DA 21 Ltd.....

raymeedc · 11-01-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by interested_observer

What is the current thinking on the following lenses?

Pentax 21mm F/3.2 AL Limited
Voigtlander Color Skopar 20mm f/3.5 SL-II
Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 ZK Distagon T*
CZJ Flektogon 20/2.8 (M42)
Sigma EX Wide-angle lens 20 mm f1.8

Is there a reason you haven't considered the Pentax 20mm f:4 M or SMC K versions? After all, the Voigtlander you've listed, , or even the Pentax 21mm, for that matter, aren't really appreciably that much faster.

**interested_observer** · 11-01-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by raymeedc

Is there a reason you haven't considered the Pentax 20mm f:4 M or SMC K versions? After all, the Voigtlander you've listed, , or even the Pentax 21mm, for that matter, aren't really appreciably that much faster.

Funny that you should ask, as I was looking at them last night. The main reason I did not originally list them was that there was discussion on them, along with some comparison and contrasts, as to lack of addressing the other - or at least lack that I had run across. In hindsight, I should have included them. Overall, there was not a lot of comparison with the Voigtlander and this thread was spawned in part by the one on the 40mm Voigtlander. I somewhat included the Zeiss in there because of the focal length, but as the posters wrote, its large, and in a class by it's self. I guess I could afford it, saving my lunch money (for a lot longer duration), but it somewhat defeats the purpose as it is similarly sized to the 12-24 (actually slightly larger and heavier, plus the front element is much larger).

I am leaving for Dayton tomorrow morning on business. I am hoping to get an hour or two in the AF museum. They allow tripods and I understand that it is very dark in there. So, its going to be similar to the Udvar-Hazy Center near Washington Dulles. Taking my 12-24, which in part got me thinking about the a lighter and smaller 21. It is going to be somewhat interesting to see if I and pretty much down at the 12 end or up at the 24 end. I am somewhat thinking about also taking the kit lens, since it is a bit faster at 3.5 at 18.

Well, I still have to finish packing....

StevenVH · 11-01-2009, 03:46 PM

And no one mentioned the A 20/2.8 as an option. It's at least smaller than the 12-24 :-)
I was lucky and found mine here in the forum and it's great specimen, but I guess it's rare in the wild.

GL

davef · 11-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Eaglerapids

I've found no issues whatsoever with the DA 21mm's sharpness or rendering, it takes gorgeous photos. It does have a bit of distortion but that is not an issue for me with landscapes. I have done some interior shooting with it and while I would love to get the DA 15 for this type work the 21 is coping just fine till I can afford the 15.

Seconded.

It is the one lens I regretted selling and I ended up buying a second. It isn't a technically perfect lens but it takes nice pictures. That works for me!

Dave

**interested_observer** · 11-14-2009, 03:39 PM

Well, I ran across an essentially brand new mint condition DA* 21 LTD for $375 that I ordered. We will see what it actually is when it arrives - next week....

Abbazz · 11-14-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by StevenVH

And no one mentioned the A 20/2.8 as an option.

Seconded.

I have the the FA 20/2.8, which shares the same optical layout, and it's a beautiful lens. Its main advantages over the DA21 are its slightly wider max aperture and shorter focal length, its ability to cover full frame 24x36 and its aperture ring, making it usable on older Pentax cameras or even on others systems. Here are a few pictures taken with the FA 20/2.8:

Cheers!

Abbazz

**interested_observer** · 03-30-2010, 06:50 PM

I was in the process of posting on another thread and was going to reference this, so I was giving it a quick scan, and noticed that I never really finished the story. I left it with ordering the DA 21 Ltd. I ordered it used - mint condition, the site had a small picture and a serial number that I really did not pay any attention to.

What came in the mail was a FA 31/1.9 Limited, with the posted serial number. I called and they said that they made a posting mistake and they sent what was advertised. So, I have acquired this 31 Ltd, something that I would have never actually purchased. I have had it about 5 months now, and its everything that everyone says it is - and probably more.

I have never really picked up and followed through on the 21 Ltd. The 31 I use for stitching, it pulls me in a bit closer, is extremely sharp and stitches wonderfully. Obviously physically larger than the 21, but its working and I am needless to say extremely happy......

Aegon · 03-30-2010, 08:14 PM

Well if you decide that the 21mm was what you really wanted, I'd be happy to trade a new copy for your errant 31mm.

urje · 03-31-2010, 02:28 AM

great story! when I bought my second hand 21, I didn't get a 31, but a 21 which is unable to focus on distant objects. Still figuring out how to get it fixed for little or get my money back...

vandamro · 04-01-2010, 04:54 PM

The Pentax A or FA 20/2.8 are very likely candidates and you should give them real consideration. I saw one a couple weeks ago on KEH.

Personally, I love my Carl Zeiss Flektogon 20/2.8. Its colors and contrast is exceptional. And the best part is that there is almost no distortion to be seen and that is for a full frame lens! And for under 500 dollars I think its quite a steal. You can get it for less than 300 if you look hard enough. Here is one just example. Not the best and not high resolution but you get the idea.

GeneV · 04-02-2010, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by vandamro

The Pentax A or FA 20/2.8 are very likely candidates and you should give them real consideration. I saw one a couple weeks ago on KEH.

I am the very happy owner of the DA21. However, I am yearning for the 20mm FOV on film in a compact lens.

The price of the A 20/2.8 or even the M 20/4 are pretty high. I almost never see these on Ebay. A "like new" M 20/4 at KEH is the same price as a brand new Cosina Voigtlander, and the C-V would have auto aperture capability, slightly faster max aperture and new warranty at about the same size. I know the 20/2.8 is a legend, but is the M 20/4 so much better that a ~30 year old example should fetch such a price?

audiobomber · 04-02-2010, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by interested_observer

Obviously physically larger than the 21, but its working and I am needless to say extremely happy......

A 31mm for the price of a 21mm? I'm extremely jealous.

Frankly, other than size I don't see the point of a 21mm Ltd when one has a DA 12-24, 16-45, 16-50 or 17-70mm. Nevertheless, I am constantly tempted to buy one.
Hi, my name is Dan and I'm an addict.

GeneV · 04-02-2010, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Frankly, other than size I don't see the point of a 21mm Ltd when one has a DA 12-24, 16-45, 16-50 or 17-70mm. Nevertheless, I am constantly tempted to buy one.
Hi, my name is Dan and I'm an addict.

Size is a pretty big "other than," for me. A K-x with a DA21/40/70 attached is an irresistible package for a coat pocket or waistpack.

11-01-2009, 11:27 AM	#18
raymeedc Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 951	Originally posted by interested_observer What is the current thinking on the following lenses? Pentax 21mm F/3.2 AL Limited Voigtlander Color Skopar 20mm f/3.5 SL-II Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 ZK Distagon T* CZJ Flektogon 20/2.8 (M42) Sigma EX Wide-angle lens 20 mm f1.8 Is there a reason you haven't considered the Pentax 20mm f:4 M or SMC K versions? After all, the Voigtlander you've listed, , or even the Pentax 21mm, for that matter, aren't really appreciably that much faster.

04-01-2010, 04:54 PM	#27
vandamro Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 84	CZ Flektogon 20/2.8 gets my vote. The Pentax A or FA 20/2.8 are very likely candidates and you should give them real consideration. I saw one a couple weeks ago on KEH. Personally, I love my Carl Zeiss Flektogon 20/2.8. Its colors and contrast is exceptional. And the best part is that there is almost no distortion to be seen and that is for a full frame lens! And for under 500 dollars I think its quite a steal. You can get it for less than 300 if you look hard enough. Here is one just example. Not the best and not high resolution but you get the idea. Attached Images

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11-01-2009, 07:19 AM	#16
Spotmatic Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ft. Myers Florida Posts: 169	My vote is for the DA 21. The DA 15 is a fine lens too. The more I use it the more I like it. I thought I would sell the 12-24 but....not yet. The Zeiss lenses are simply excellent. I have the ZK 25 Distagon and really like it on a crop sensor. I don't think anyone would be unhappy with a ZK in their favorite focal length. All lens opinions/reviews mean little....including mine. It only matters if YOU like a lens.

11-01-2009, 11:05 AM	#17
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jacques Balthazar I'd say that if you shoot film or believe in a coming FF DSLR, and prefer the MX/K7 + pancake style of "small is beautiful", the Voigtlander becomes best option in terms of currently produced lenses. If you only shoot digital and do not believe Pentax will go FF, then the DA is a no-brainer. The Zeiss is very large and heavy on top of being expensive. Might just as well go for a 16-50 or 12-24 at that size/weight.... I have the 21 DA, and it is plenty good. But I regret not having opted for the Voigtlander, as it would also have been a great super-wide to use with the MX.... When I selected the K100, there was the FF argument going on then - 4 years ago. Still going. Even if Pentax comes out with a FF, I have my investment in ASP-C glass, and I am staying put, as I have no interest in moving. Now with the K20 - I am happy, so just looking to supplement my lens set - with a lighter and smaller option to the 12-24 that stays mounted most of the time. So, it appears (and I am not surprised at all), that its the DA 21 Ltd.....

11-01-2009, 12:16 PM	#19
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707 Original Poster	Originally posted by raymeedc Is there a reason you haven't considered the Pentax 20mm f:4 M or SMC K versions? After all, the Voigtlander you've listed, , or even the Pentax 21mm, for that matter, aren't really appreciably that much faster. Funny that you should ask, as I was looking at them last night. The main reason I did not originally list them was that there was discussion on them, along with some comparison and contrasts, as to lack of addressing the other - or at least lack that I had run across. In hindsight, I should have included them. Overall, there was not a lot of comparison with the Voigtlander and this thread was spawned in part by the one on the 40mm Voigtlander. I somewhat included the Zeiss in there because of the focal length, but as the posters wrote, its large, and in a class by it's self. I guess I could afford it, saving my lunch money (for a lot longer duration), but it somewhat defeats the purpose as it is similarly sized to the 12-24 (actually slightly larger and heavier, plus the front element is much larger). I am leaving for Dayton tomorrow morning on business. I am hoping to get an hour or two in the AF museum. They allow tripods and I understand that it is very dark in there. So, its going to be similar to the Udvar-Hazy Center near Washington Dulles. Taking my 12-24, which in part got me thinking about the a lighter and smaller 21. It is going to be somewhat interesting to see if I and pretty much down at the 12 end or up at the 24 end. I am somewhat thinking about also taking the kit lens, since it is a bit faster at 3.5 at 18. Well, I still have to finish packing....

11-01-2009, 03:46 PM	#20
StevenVH Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 475	And no one mentioned the A 20/2.8 as an option. It's at least smaller than the 12-24 :-) I was lucky and found mine here in the forum and it's great specimen, but I guess it's rare in the wild. GL

11-01-2009, 07:04 PM	#21
davef Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 433	Originally posted by Eaglerapids I've found no issues whatsoever with the DA 21mm's sharpness or rendering, it takes gorgeous photos. It does have a bit of distortion but that is not an issue for me with landscapes. I have done some interior shooting with it and while I would love to get the DA 15 for this type work the 21 is coping just fine till I can afford the 15. Seconded. It is the one lens I regretted selling and I ended up buying a second. It isn't a technically perfect lens but it takes nice pictures. That works for me! Dave

11-14-2009, 03:39 PM	#22
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707 Original Poster	Well, I ran across an essentially brand new mint condition DA* 21 LTD for $375 that I ordered. We will see what it actually is when it arrives - next week....

11-14-2009, 06:23 PM	#23
Abbazz Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 667	Originally posted by StevenVH And no one mentioned the A 20/2.8 as an option. Seconded. I have the the FA 20/2.8, which shares the same optical layout, and it's a beautiful lens. Its main advantages over the DA21 are its slightly wider max aperture and shorter focal length, its ability to cover full frame 24x36 and its aperture ring, making it usable on older Pentax cameras or even on others systems. Here are a few pictures taken with the FA 20/2.8: Cheers! Abbazz

03-30-2010, 06:50 PM	#24
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707 Original Poster	I was in the process of posting on another thread and was going to reference this, so I was giving it a quick scan, and noticed that I never really finished the story. I left it with ordering the DA 21 Ltd. I ordered it used - mint condition, the site had a small picture and a serial number that I really did not pay any attention to. What came in the mail was a FA 31/1.9 Limited, with the posted serial number. I called and they said that they made a posting mistake and they sent what was advertised. So, I have acquired this 31 Ltd, something that I would have never actually purchased. I have had it about 5 months now, and its everything that everyone says it is - and probably more. I have never really picked up and followed through on the 21 Ltd. The 31 I use for stitching, it pulls me in a bit closer, is extremely sharp and stitches wonderfully. Obviously physically larger than the 21, but its working and I am needless to say extremely happy......

03-30-2010, 08:14 PM	#25
Aegon Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,416	Well if you decide that the 21mm was what you really wanted, I'd be happy to trade a new copy for your errant 31mm.

03-31-2010, 02:28 AM	#26
urje Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Deventer, NL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 113	great story! when I bought my second hand 21, I didn't get a 31, but a 21 which is unable to focus on distant objects. Still figuring out how to get it fixed for little or get my money back...

04-02-2010, 06:02 AM	#28
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by vandamro The Pentax A or FA 20/2.8 are very likely candidates and you should give them real consideration. I saw one a couple weeks ago on KEH. I am the very happy owner of the DA21. However, I am yearning for the 20mm FOV on film in a compact lens. The price of the A 20/2.8 or even the M 20/4 are pretty high. I almost never see these on Ebay. A "like new" M 20/4 at KEH is the same price as a brand new Cosina Voigtlander, and the C-V would have auto aperture capability, slightly faster max aperture and new warranty at about the same size. I know the 20/2.8 is a legend, but is the M 20/4 so much better that a ~30 year old example should fetch such a price?

04-02-2010, 08:23 AM	#29
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by interested_observer Obviously physically larger than the 21, but its working and I am needless to say extremely happy...... A 31mm for the price of a 21mm? I'm extremely jealous. Frankly, other than size I don't see the point of a 21mm Ltd when one has a DA 12-24, 16-45, 16-50 or 17-70mm. Nevertheless, I am constantly tempted to buy one. Hi, my name is Dan and I'm an addict.

04-02-2010, 09:10 AM	#30
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by audiobomber Frankly, other than size I don't see the point of a 21mm Ltd when one has a DA 12-24, 16-45, 16-50 or 17-70mm. Nevertheless, I am constantly tempted to buy one. Hi, my name is Dan and I'm an addict. Size is a pretty big "other than," for me. A K-x with a DA21/40/70 attached is an irresistible package for a coat pocket or waistpack.