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01-12-2010, 09:55 PM   #46
Ash
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Problem is, Gary, coming clean attaches very negative repercussions to their admission of SDM unreliability. We've gone through this before - customer confidence would simply wane knowing that after all these years of apparent SDM problems nothing was done, and all the recalls/returns/repairs would send them broke...

01-12-2010, 10:05 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Problem is, Gary, coming clean attaches very negative repercussions to their admission of SDM unreliability. We've gone through this before - customer confidence would simply wane knowing that after all these years of apparent SDM problems nothing was done, and all the recalls/returns/repairs would send them broke...
That's their problem, not mine. It wouldn't matter an awful lot to me if they went broke because of their own incompetence (or any other reason).
A digital equivalent of Eric would probably seize upon the opportunity to keep the existing equipment running. Repairs might even come down in price (although I suspect owners of SDM lenses will still be screwed).
The cameras and lenses are only tools, if one brand isn't available I'll buy another as and when necessary.
01-12-2010, 10:11 PM   #48
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I posted this in another SDM related thread... something I read on another site

Does anyone know if it is fact?

The failure of SDM lenses I've read is the incorrect installation of a simple plastic part inside the lens, causing the focus drive shaft to at first bind and later cause SDM motor failure. I read the same identical plastic part is used in its repair and as a precaution a new sdm unit is installed during the $250-$350 repair. I've read of a few owners on their 2nd and 3rd repaired SDM lenses. The repair seems to last a year or so and can take 3 months to have done. Then others have never had a problem. Seems to boil down to whether your lens' little plasic part was properly installed and properly tightned down

If it is fact it boils down to quality control not sdm motors.


Cheers

Neil
01-12-2010, 10:23 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
That's their problem, not mine. It wouldn't matter an awful lot to me if they went broke because of their own incompetence (or any other reason).
A digital equivalent of Eric would probably seize upon the opportunity to keep the existing equipment running. Repairs might even come down in price (although I suspect owners of SDM lenses will still be screwed).
The cameras and lenses are only tools, if one brand isn't available I'll buy another as and when necessary.
Where's the pride in being a Pentaxian, Gary?!?

01-12-2010, 10:24 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
I posted this in another SDM related thread... something I read on another site

Does anyone know if it is fact?

The failure of SDM lenses I've read is the incorrect installation of a simple plastic part inside the lens, causing the focus drive shaft to at first bind and later cause SDM motor failure. I read the same identical plastic part is used in its repair and as a precaution a new sdm unit is installed during the $250-$350 repair. I've read of a few owners on their 2nd and 3rd repaired SDM lenses. The repair seems to last a year or so and can take 3 months to have done. Then others have never had a problem. Seems to boil down to whether your lens' little plasic part was properly installed and properly tightned down

If it is fact it boils down to quality control not sdm motors.


Cheers

Neil
Unless a lens specialist/technician has physically seen this phenomenon I'd take the hypothesis with a grain of salt. Sounds plausible but who are we to dispute it?
01-12-2010, 10:30 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Problem is, Gary, coming clean attaches very negative repercussions to their admission of SDM unreliability. We've gone through this before - customer confidence would simply wane knowing that after all these years of apparent SDM problems nothing was done, and all the recalls/returns/repairs would send them broke...
I honestly don't feel that it'd break Pentax, or for that mater Tokina whom I understand makes these lenses... if they had to pay the shot.

My reasoning for this is because they're pretty much charging double the price for the Pentax version over other mounts.
Pentax 16 - 50 at B&H
Tokina in Canon Mount, at B&H

If they're making money selling the Canon version at 1/2 the price, you'd think they'd be making enough from the Pentax version to replace everyone's lens with a re-design. If they could keep their costs the same.
Besides, after they get the consumers confidence back, some people will start buying their products again.
01-12-2010, 10:39 PM   #52
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Sounds right Stu, but that'd make me question Pentax's integrity more if they truly produced the same lens and selling it for twice the price of its RRP in another mount - and for what, their economic viability?
Poor excuse IMO. If they're selling a $700-1000 lens, it ought to live up to a decent standard, above and beyond that of a third-party equivalent.
01-12-2010, 11:18 PM   #53
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Ford used to build crap cars. They would break down lots and prove unreliable. The sheer number of recalls was staggering.

They woke up, smelled the coffee and turned their act around (without any government help, too) and now they are producing a better designed, better quality product (for the most part) and people know it.

Pentax needs to step up and do the same thing. Develop and market a revised SDM system, call it SDM II, advertise it as faster or whatever.

Brand confidence moving forward will increase, repair problems would decrease and everyone would be mostly happy.

01-12-2010, 11:38 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
My reasoning for this is because they're pretty much charging double the price for the Pentax version over other mounts.
Pentax 16 - 50 at B&H
Tokina in Canon Mount, at B&H
Wow laker, it just floors me that the DA*16-50 is $1030. Who thinks that lens is worth that much? Even if you put aside the SDM issues, the history of QC issues of decentering, etc,. Photozone shows how bad the edge softness is wide open. At 50mm it is between "fair" to "poor." No other equivalent lens is that poor. Speaking of Canon, you can buy 5 different "L" lenses with ring-USM for that price or less. Heck the 17-55f/2.8 with ring-USM, and latest generation of IS costs the exact same price!

Pentax used to be the brand that had the best "bang for the buck.".
01-12-2010, 11:49 PM   #55
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QuoteQuote:
Wow laker, it just floors me that the DA*16-50 is $1030. Who thinks that lens is worth that much? Even if you put aside the SDM issues, the history of QC issues of decentering, etc,. Photozone shows how bad the edge softness is wide open
I signed the petition and my main reason for doing so is that this is a great lens, I would hate to see it taken off the market, rather I would like to see its SDM problems resolved
It is my most used lens and IQ is great, I have had no problems with SDM and can understand peoples anger when this issue arises.

For me if it was not so good a lens it would not sell at all.

I have 2 FA limiteds in its range, but still it comes out of the bag the most for my type of shooting.

Well worth the money I paid for it and would not hesitate to get another.

cheers

Neil
01-12-2010, 11:52 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
Wow laker, it just floors me that the DA*16-50 is $1030.
It is $1099 CDN here

DA*50-135 is $1,199. I got mine on sale for $780 or something like that.
01-13-2010, 01:24 AM   #57
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PentaxPoke.. note that the 16-50 price in both B&H and Adorama drops to 744$ when added to the basket.

Is more expensive but not close to double. For the price difference you get Silent SDM (although some would rather not) and Pentax Lenscoatings.

I actually find it quite well priced in comparison to what some of my non-pentax friends have been spending money on... Again, I dont have any technical issues with the lens (fingers crossed).
01-13-2010, 02:03 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Where's the pride in being a Pentaxian, Gary?!?
F**k that, reality and practicality kicked in a month or so after getting caught up in the excitement of joining this incredible forum. Pentax needs us more than we need Pentax
(or their poxy SDM).
01-13-2010, 03:49 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I honestly don't feel that it'd break Pentax, or for that mater Tokina whom I understand makes these lenses... if they had to pay the shot.

My reasoning for this is because they're pretty much charging double the price for the Pentax version over other mounts.
Pentax 16 - 50 at B&H
Tokina in Canon Mount, at B&H

If they're making money selling the Canon version at 1/2 the price, you'd think they'd be making enough from the Pentax version to replace everyone's lens with a re-design. If they could keep their costs the same.
Here we go again:

DA10-17, DA35ltd, DFA100, DA*16-50 and DA*50-135 are designed by Pentax and built by Pentax. Tokina is licensed to build their own version in their own factories. Without weathersealing and SDM for instance (so costs are not the same), and not with Pentax coatings. Pentax build their versions in their own factories, where they also build the corresponding Samsung branded versions of some of these lenses. Tokina build their versions in their own factories. Pentax makes money on every Tokina or Samsung copy of these lens designs, and Tokina have had to agree not to release their versions in K mount.

DA12-24 is a Tokina design that Pentax in the same way is licensed to build their own version of in their own factory. Tokina has a share on Pentax profit on this lens.

Here is a link to the Pentax patent on the DA*50-135 and DA*16-50.

Lens history is full of these agreements, and there are fare less independent lens designs than you might believe.

Last edited by Douglas_of_Sweden; 01-13-2010 at 04:17 AM. Reason: bad english
01-13-2010, 04:14 AM   #60
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Hi,
it's about 4-5 months I'm stuck on the decision to buy a 16-50 -- 17-50 -- 17-70mm lens, because of the fear of SDM failures ... and also because of Pentax lens being recently highly priced also in Italy by FOWA ...

All in all, I think I'll buy a Tamron 17-50mm, because I'm very disappointed about Pentax lack of support on their weak SDM motors.

Just wanted Pentax to realize and be conscious that we are Pentax users as long as Pentax will give as the best gear at the best price !
I don't hesitate to buy a third part lens if I think it's a better solution for me in terms of price/quality balance and correspondence to my needs.

So, in the meantime they don't issue a 17-70 SDM II or maybe also WR lens, I won't buy it.

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