More SDM problems

Wheatfield · 01-30-2010, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Part of the problem is that rather than turn in SDM failures to Pentax immediately, the lenses are returned to dealers to be resold to someone else. The store should be obligated to return the lens for fixing if there are optical or functional problems with it, not wait for someone else and then hope they don't notice in the return window period.

If a retailer gives a refund on a defective product, that product should be sent back to the distributor for refurbishing.
A retailer that knowingly sells a broken product is committing fraud.

Oggy · 01-30-2010, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

You gettin' this Oggy???

(And for our white k-m owners

)

Er, on ballance ----No.

I have no idea what people are doing to break these lenses, all I can say is that obviously I do not do it as I haven't had a problem, nor has anyone else I know.

Sorry I cannot be bothered to postany random pictures in an effort to re-inforce my point.

Damn Brit · 01-30-2010, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Oggy

I have no idea what people are doing to break these lenses, all I can say is that obviously I do not do it

Have you taken them out of the box yet?

Oggy · 01-30-2010, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

So shall we have them give us daily, weekly or monthly updates?

What you say makes no difference to the current perception. I suspect that the apologists actually achieve the opposite of what they set out to do when they make comments like the one you have just made because they draw attention to the manufacturers silence on the matter and also by prolonging the discussion. It wouldn't matter how many people posted to say their lens hasn't had problems...YET, I doubt if it would change the minds of those who have said they won't buy an SDM lens for the reasons given. It certainly won't stop people talking about the failures and I'm pretty sure we haven't heard about the last failure.

BTW your sig draws more attention to the problem than anything we are saying.

No schedule, just "at ramdom"as those who have had a failure do.

If everyone who had an SDM lens posted to say whether they had had a problem or not then we might find out if there really is a problem. As it is we simply hear from the vocal minority.

Do we know if these lenses have been abused?

Do we know if there are any other common factors bteween these failures?

Why use your brain when your prejudices are still in working order.

Now - about Salem---

Damn Brit · 01-30-2010, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Oggy

As it is we simply hear from the vocal minority.

Can we see your statistics that back up this claim of a vocal minority or is it as fictitious as you claim the SDM problem to be?

Just to put your denial of the SDM problem in a historical perspective. King Canute's encounter with the waves is said to have occurred in West Sussex.

Class A · 01-30-2010, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

But Class A, doesn't the red part of your sentence suggest an answer to the blue part?

I think you somewhat read over one key word in the red part which is "apparently".

Originally posted by Pentaxor

Why can't Pentax say the same thing?

Here it is again, the assumption that there is a major problem and Pentax is just covering it up. We just cannot be certain this and I'm pretty sure the numbers of failure reports are below statistical significance.

This has, of course, nothing to do with any lack of empathy for anyone who had an SDM failure.

Damn Brit · 01-30-2010, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Class A

This has, of course, nothing to do with any lack of empathy for anyone who had an SDM failure.

I admire your diplomacy.

PentaxPoke · 01-30-2010, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Class A

This has, of course, nothing to do with any lack of empathy for anyone who had an SDM failure.

Well that just gives me warm fuzzies all over.

brecklundin · 01-30-2010, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Have you taken them out of the box yet?

Or, has anyone actually seen his collection of DA* lenses together in the same place/picture?

I mean why keep a $60 kit lens with all the other great gear? Not as a backup when the 16-50 SDM smokes the motor...right?

"Not" trying to fan any flames or anything mind you...just joining in the silliness of something nobody can say is real or imagined.

Same as with anything else, unless there are pictures it's not true or did not ever happen.

juu · 01-31-2010, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by Class A

Here it is again, the assumption that there is a major problem and Pentax is just covering it up. We just cannot be certain this and I'm pretty sure the numbers of failure reports are below statistical significance.

OK, Class A, you ignored my question previously, I am asking you again:

Originally posted by juu

Originally posted by Class A

I'd be convinced if we had access to data showing that the reliability of SDM is worse than that of USM/HSM.

How would you suggest to get access to the data that would show whether SDM reliability is worse than USM/HSM?

Please respond.

Class A · 02-04-2010, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by juu

How would you suggest to get access to the data that would show whether SDM reliability is worse than USM/HSM?

I have no suggestion, sorry.

paulelescoces · 02-04-2010, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by juu

OK, Class A, you ignored my question previously, I am asking you again:

Please respond.

I was not terribly surprised you did not get an answer and I believe that you asked... full in the knowledge that there is no ability to get "access to the data". (I assume nobody has internal, reliable pentax contacts)

Fact of the matter is... and always will be... internet forums talking of issues will act as a magnet to others with similar issues... there is no way to get unbiased data... and there is no way for us to know "how-biased" is the data we see here.... and lets face it, Pentax will not disclose any data to assist here.

What is a fact however is that these threads serve as discouragement from potential buyers from purchasing SDM lenses, as such, some/any movement from Pentaxes part will help (e.g. extended warrantys).

juu · 02-04-2010, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I have no suggestion, sorry.

Well, but in this case the situation becomes quite bizarre.

The only way you would be convinced that there is a problem is if you get the reliability data. But there isn't any way to get that data.

You put the burden of proof on us fully well knowing it is an impossible task.

That is like someone in the 15th century claiming that the only way he would believe the earth is round is if he'd see photographs of it from space.

Wheatfield · 02-04-2010, 06:54 AM

Don't know if this will add anything, but I got a call from my local shop yesterday regarding my dead 60-250. The parts are on back order from Japan and they are expecting a 4-6 week wait for the components required to fix my lens.
My thought is that they are having enough failures to have created a supply chain problem within their repair departments.

Pentaxor · 02-04-2010, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by paulelescoces

I was not terribly surprised you did not get an answer and I believe that you asked... full in the knowledge that there is no ability to get "access to the data". (I assume nobody has internal, reliable pentax contacts)

Fact of the matter is... and always will be... internet forums talking of issues will act as a magnet to others with similar issues... there is no way to get unbiased data... and there is no way for us to know "how-biased" is the data we see here.... and lets face it, Pentax will not disclose any data to assist here.

What is a fact however is that these threads serve as discouragement from potential buyers from purchasing SDM lenses, as such, some/any movement from Pentaxes part will help (e.g. extended warrantys).

don't worry, when the time comes that Pentax decides to do something about this and fix this issue, Pentax will bring back the confidence in the Pentax product, and people would start threads regarding the new and hopefully improved system and promote the product to others. good deeds don't come unrewarded. nor bad deeds are simply ignored. you sew what you reaped.

01-30-2010, 06:20 PM	#110
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by Oggy As it is we simply hear from the vocal minority. Can we see your statistics that back up this claim of a vocal minority or is it as fictitious as you claim the SDM problem to be? Just to put your denial of the SDM problem in a historical perspective. King Canute's encounter with the waves is said to have occurred in West Sussex. Last edited by Damn Brit; 01-30-2010 at 06:25 PM.

01-30-2010, 07:33 PM	#111
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by PentaxPoke But Class A, doesn't the red part of your sentence suggest an answer to the blue part? I think you somewhat read over one key word in the red part which is "apparently". Originally posted by Pentaxor Why can't Pentax say the same thing? Here it is again, the assumption that there is a major problem and Pentax is just covering it up. We just cannot be certain this and I'm pretty sure the numbers of failure reports are below statistical significance. This has, of course, nothing to do with any lack of empathy for anyone who had an SDM failure. Last edited by Class A; 01-30-2010 at 07:45 PM.

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01-30-2010, 08:11 AM	#106
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Rondec Part of the problem is that rather than turn in SDM failures to Pentax immediately, the lenses are returned to dealers to be resold to someone else. The store should be obligated to return the lens for fixing if there are optical or functional problems with it, not wait for someone else and then hope they don't notice in the return window period. If a retailer gives a refund on a defective product, that product should be sent back to the distributor for refurbishing. A retailer that knowingly sells a broken product is committing fraud.

01-30-2010, 06:05 PM	#107
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	Originally posted by PentaxPoke You gettin' this Oggy??? (And for our white k-m owners ) Er, on ballance ----No. I have no idea what people are doing to break these lenses, all I can say is that obviously I do not do it as I haven't had a problem, nor has anyone else I know. Sorry I cannot be bothered to postany random pictures in an effort to re-inforce my point.

01-30-2010, 06:07 PM	#108
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by Oggy I have no idea what people are doing to break these lenses, all I can say is that obviously I do not do it Have you taken them out of the box yet?

01-30-2010, 06:15 PM	#109
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	Originally posted by Damn Brit So shall we have them give us daily, weekly or monthly updates? What you say makes no difference to the current perception. I suspect that the apologists actually achieve the opposite of what they set out to do when they make comments like the one you have just made because they draw attention to the manufacturers silence on the matter and also by prolonging the discussion. It wouldn't matter how many people posted to say their lens hasn't had problems...YET, I doubt if it would change the minds of those who have said they won't buy an SDM lens for the reasons given. It certainly won't stop people talking about the failures and I'm pretty sure we haven't heard about the last failure. BTW your sig draws more attention to the problem than anything we are saying. No schedule, just "at ramdom"as those who have had a failure do. If everyone who had an SDM lens posted to say whether they had had a problem or not then we might find out if there really is a problem. As it is we simply hear from the vocal minority. Do we know if these lenses have been abused? Do we know if there are any other common factors bteween these failures? Why use your brain when your prejudices are still in working order. Now - about Salem---

01-30-2010, 07:34 PM	#112
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by Class A This has, of course, nothing to do with any lack of empathy for anyone who had an SDM failure. I admire your diplomacy.

01-30-2010, 07:51 PM	#113
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A This has, of course, nothing to do with any lack of empathy for anyone who had an SDM failure. Well that just gives me warm fuzzies all over.

01-30-2010, 10:12 PM	#114
brecklundin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,674	Originally posted by Damn Brit Have you taken them out of the box yet? Or, has anyone actually seen his collection of DA* lenses together in the same place/picture? I mean why keep a $60 kit lens with all the other great gear? Not as a backup when the 16-50 SDM smokes the motor...right? "Not" trying to fan any flames or anything mind you...just joining in the silliness of something nobody can say is real or imagined. Same as with anything else, unless there are pictures it's not true or did not ever happen.

01-31-2010, 03:17 AM	#115
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680	Originally posted by Class A Here it is again, the assumption that there is a major problem and Pentax is just covering it up. We just cannot be certain this and I'm pretty sure the numbers of failure reports are below statistical significance. OK, Class A, you ignored my question previously, I am asking you again: Originally posted by juu Originally posted by Class A I'd be convinced if we had access to data showing that the reliability of SDM is worse than that of USM/HSM. How would you suggest to get access to the data that would show whether SDM reliability is worse than USM/HSM? Please respond.

02-04-2010, 03:15 AM	#116
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by juu How would you suggest to get access to the data that would show whether SDM reliability is worse than USM/HSM? I have no suggestion, sorry.

02-04-2010, 03:59 AM	#117
paulelescoces Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Switzerland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 252	Originally posted by juu OK, Class A, you ignored my question previously, I am asking you again: Please respond. I was not terribly surprised you did not get an answer and I believe that you asked... full in the knowledge that there is no ability to get "access to the data". (I assume nobody has internal, reliable pentax contacts) Fact of the matter is... and always will be... internet forums talking of issues will act as a magnet to others with similar issues... there is no way to get unbiased data... and there is no way for us to know "how-biased" is the data we see here.... and lets face it, Pentax will not disclose any data to assist here. What is a fact however is that these threads serve as discouragement from potential buyers from purchasing SDM lenses, as such, some/any movement from Pentaxes part will help (e.g. extended warrantys).

02-04-2010, 04:20 AM	#118
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680	Originally posted by Class A I have no suggestion, sorry. Well, but in this case the situation becomes quite bizarre. The only way you would be convinced that there is a problem is if you get the reliability data. But there isn't any way to get that data. You put the burden of proof on us fully well knowing it is an impossible task. That is like someone in the 15th century claiming that the only way he would believe the earth is round is if he'd see photographs of it from space.

02-04-2010, 06:54 AM	#119
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Don't know if this will add anything, but I got a call from my local shop yesterday regarding my dead 60-250. The parts are on back order from Japan and they are expecting a 4-6 week wait for the components required to fix my lens. My thought is that they are having enough failures to have created a supply chain problem within their repair departments.

02-04-2010, 10:59 AM	#120
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by paulelescoces I was not terribly surprised you did not get an answer and I believe that you asked... full in the knowledge that there is no ability to get "access to the data". (I assume nobody has internal, reliable pentax contacts) Fact of the matter is... and always will be... internet forums talking of issues will act as a magnet to others with similar issues... there is no way to get unbiased data... and there is no way for us to know "how-biased" is the data we see here.... and lets face it, Pentax will not disclose any data to assist here. What is a fact however is that these threads serve as discouragement from potential buyers from purchasing SDM lenses, as such, some/any movement from Pentaxes part will help (e.g. extended warrantys). don't worry, when the time comes that Pentax decides to do something about this and fix this issue, Pentax will bring back the confidence in the Pentax product, and people would start threads regarding the new and hopefully improved system and promote the product to others. good deeds don't come unrewarded. nor bad deeds are simply ignored. you sew what you reaped.