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09-26-2010, 01:53 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ShiftR Quote
Slightly off topic.

The reason Pentax may not be doing anything about the SDM issues is because it might not actually be that large of a problem statistically speaking. The failure rate known to them may not be that high a percentage compared to how many have been sold, and thus deemed to be within tolerable rates. You could probably survey thousands of people in the U.S. on CE products or brands, and you would find a smaller amount of people who have sworn off using that item for various reasons than people who love it. You would be led to believe that anything from that company is garbage if you went online in many cases.

The best example I can think of is cars. I could find 1000 people who hate or will never buy a BMW because of many different issues they have experienced, even with multiple cars. I could also find 1000 people who have not experienced the slightest issue. The people with the issues are the ones going online or spreading word amongst friends and family not to buy them because theirs blew up, which is completely understandable. The happy people usually only recommend them or even talk about them when they are asked about it. That leaves the people who don't say anything either way and simply move on. They are an even smaller group typically.

One can't really offer a black or white conclusion (not speaking to personal decisions) on SDM failure when the amount of examples used to come to such an absolute conclusion don't represent the whole picture.
REALLY?.....REALLY?!! you think nobody here has ever taken that POV about the SDM issues? Dude, do some searching on SDM failures or something similar. In fact recently, within the past few months or so, a couple of pro shooters had their SDM lenses croak on them at crucial times and were denied repair or given a run around about the repair. We are not talking about isolated failures here or failures due to abuse, rather failures of a spontaneous nature that come totally out of left-field. I bought one SDM lense when i moved to Pentax and that was pretty much a DOA because it died inside my first 30-days so I got a full refund from Amazon but many are not so "lucky" having the $1000 lense die 13-18 months into their ownership.

Seriously do some reading here and elsewhere...it is beyond the typical "me too" nature of the web...too many respected and know people have had SDM failures, one was lucky enough that his camera also had a problem that allowed him to begin using the screw drive, luck bastage hehehehe, but nobody ever figured out how to induce the same damage, errrr, fix, to their K20D...

09-26-2010, 08:28 PM   #32
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This POV comes up on every website or forum whenever something is said to be failing at an epidemic rate, and it's because more often than not, it holds true.

To officially put an end to this, we need a chart that shows how many SDM lenses have been sold ever, and how many have been reported failures. That's the biggest issue. None of us know how many exist. We only know about the people who have had theirs fail however many times. Without knowing about ALL of them, we can't conclude that they are ALL problematic (even if they eventually will be). That's all I am saying.
09-26-2010, 11:17 PM   #33
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I bought a 16-50 via eBay (as a shop floor model) for US$650+shipping with an understanding of the repair costs in mind.

A new 16-50 in australia is about A$1400 (unless you get CRKennedy to price match, but you wont find them for anywhere near $650) and there are no warranty repairs on grey imports.




Despite the issues reported, the praise for generally good IQ and constant F2.8 was enough to make me want it over equivalent other zooms. Have done a few tests for decentralised optics, need to assess them now!
09-27-2010, 03:20 AM   #34
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To try to answer the OP question:
QuoteQuote:
Of those with repaired SDM lenses (due to faulty SDM) have there been any secondary failures?
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AoOE9_TdlzaNdHl0U0ljXzUyR1FvX2pkRU1YZGNFbWc&hl=en&output=html

From the data I have, 13 out of 115 SDM lens failed after repair or replacement for faulty SDM.

Thank you
Russell


Last edited by Russell-Evans; 09-27-2010 at 03:25 AM.
09-27-2010, 04:34 AM   #35
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Pentax just needs to release new versions of the 16-50 and 50-135. I don't know what the real failure rate is, but everyone is scared to buy a lens with a one year warranty that could cost 200 dollars to repair -- and may require multiple repairs. Replace the motors with stronger ones, do some cosmetic changes to the exterior and extend the warranties to 3 years. I think that would jump the number of these lenses sold by 50 percent minimum.
09-27-2010, 09:26 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Pentax just needs to release new versions of the 16-50 and 50-135. I don't know what the real failure rate is, but everyone is scared to buy a lens with a one year warranty that could cost 200 dollars to repair -- and may require multiple repairs. Replace the motors with stronger ones, do some cosmetic changes to the exterior and extend the warranties to 3 years. I think that would jump the number of these lenses sold by 50 percent minimum.
what I'm seeing is that Pentax is trying to revise the lens motor on behalf of the customers' expense. I mean rather than to do a product recall, they just let the customers' do the trouble of sending the lens for repair and pay for it (free money to Pentax). I was also starting to have the impression that Pentax is trying to milk the consumers further by having a short limited warranty knowing that it would fail after that period eventually. they could had extended it longer like what 3rd Party Tamron and Sigma are doing, inorder to boost consumer confidence.

I dunno what Pentax is doing, but honestly, it is giving them a bad rep.
09-27-2010, 02:34 PM   #37
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Pentaxor:

Nice ideas there.

An extended warranty, even if it's only on the SDM itself, would be the ONLY way I will ever buy an SDM again until I see an change and even then it will be at minimum a year after that before I buy one...I am hoping the new 18-135 is the test bed for the new system. If it works that will give Pentax a bit of a leg to stand on and build from going forward. In the mean time they genuinely need to address the existing users who, and I fully support them, are not going to be burned again with an obviously problematic in lense focusing system. Offer all purchasers of SDM gear in the past 3-4 years a free inspection AND another 2-yrs coverage on the SDM part of the lense...and hey, for sealed lenses why not have a free inspection to ensure the seals are still holding up replacing them if need be. I am sure there are plenty of referb'd SDM lenses in a warehouse somewhere just begging to be used by someone!!

But they need to do something in a positive direction because thanks to the reported SDM probs, Pentax is losing a lot of customers who would be the very people to buy the advanced lenses because they already have almost every freaking lense Pentax ever built...those are the users to re-build the reputation on...build it and we will come.

Something else to consider is why should any of us buy a lense from HoyaTax that is widely perceived to have failure issues, generally AF, when we know because of those issues the thing loses 50% of the purchase price the day I open the box? Seriously, other brands and even other Pentax lenses either drop about 10%-15% or in the case of many Pentax builds actually appreciate. I mean why buy something that is a dead on loser in terms of intrinsic value when one could buy something else that either holds it's value better or appreciates? For me the appreciation issue was why i decided to complete my three-amigos set in silver. That is one build which, and I am assuming, is not to be had outside Japan, if that...

I have been tracking the FA Ltd's on eBay for a while now and in the past few months they have increased a good 20%-25% in price...yesterday I even found one seller on eBay offering a new MIJ 31ltd for, as I recall, $1699 or maybe $1599...the seller was, of course, in Japan where the lenses are ungawdly more expensive anyway but not THAT much more.

Oh, well, we can just keep after Hoya or go away...I dunno which...the final release of the K-5 is my Mendoza Line (baseball joke in case ya dunno...just google it, the poor guy could never get much over that .200 batting average so somehow he became the mascot for the below average player in the game...hehehehe, he lives on, as they say, in infamy...)
12-04-2010, 09:25 PM   #38
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K10D Screw Drive with SDM

QuoteOriginally posted by Russell-Evans Quote
The one nice thing about owning a K10D is that the firmware up to 1.20 didn't support SDM. Only 1.30 has SDM support. If SDM were to fail, you could roll back the 1.30 firmware to the hacked 1.10 firmware and then update again to 1.20 firmware to use the lens with the screw driven AF on the dual drive lenses, all SDM lenses except the 17-70mm and 55mm. Having a couple of small SD cards with the firmware is all that would be required.

For some people this isn't really an interesting option. They want a SDM lens for the SDM. I personally only have one SDM lens, so one more screw driven lens isn't going to matter, especially considering the repair times being posted.

Thank you
Russell
Sounds interesting. I'm looking at buying a used K10D along with a 3 year old DA* 16-50mm and have been weighing the risk of a future SDM failure. What is the reason for rolling back to the hacked 1.10 FW and not just downgrade to 1.20?
Also this info helps me with the inspection check to make sure the camera is at 1.30+ to see if the SDM is functioning.

Thanks
Greg


Last edited by xinu; 12-04-2010 at 09:30 PM.
12-22-2010, 07:58 PM   #39
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How much does it cost to repair the SDM on the 50-135 in Canada?

AND once repaired... does it come back with any kind of warranty?
12-23-2010, 12:35 AM   #40
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Look here for my recent experience it will give you an impression

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/126676-my-16-5...ive-motor.html

regards

Dick
12-23-2010, 01:55 AM   #41
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Clicking that link resulted on a 404 error.
12-23-2010, 06:16 AM   #42
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I'm not willing to take a punt on a 60-250/4 so are most likely going to flip to Nikon (I have some old lenses that I'll get to use as a bonus) so I can buy a Sigma 100-300/4 since I can't get anything (new) similar in a pentax mount.
12-23-2010, 02:33 PM   #43
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Some one gives an advice: If you like prime lenses, you buy Pentax camera; if you like zooms, buy Nikon.

Let me also quote the review of Pentax ZX-5n camera: "It's not if the camera will break....just a matter of time." It's the mirror motor with plastic gear which fails. After replacing the motor with metal gear, the problem is solved. Pentax did not learn the lesson and made another stupid mistake in SDM.

Pentax is well aware that faulty design in camera and lens would not kill any one (like cars) and therefore, would not have any class action. Why would they waste money to recall the faulty SDM lenses. Let the customers pay for it! I for one will not buy any of their g.d. * lens any way; besides, I have no love for zooms.

Last edited by violini; 12-23-2010 at 02:58 PM.
12-23-2010, 02:42 PM   #44
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It's simple, to me. Regardless of the size of the PR issue (which I would suspect is moderate), Pentax just needs to rename SDM as DC. Simple. No re-tooling required. It would inspire confidence that the "problem" is "fixed". I do not know whether the problem is common or not, but if it isn't, they need to up the ante on their warranty. 1, 2, or 3 years is hogwash for a 1000 dollar lens. Companies like Tamron, which clearly documented QC issues, give one 6 years to find and fix a problem. If they can't offer a warranty like that because the failures rates are too high, well then you have the answer right there. If Pentax won't back up their claims with actions, I don't believe them.

I'm willing to accept that the complicated machinery of an SDM lens is prone to failure in certain conditions. I'm not willing to pay for regular repairs on a 1000 dollar lens. If Pentax does not understand that, then places like this will continue to bash the SDM and Pentax will lose zoom sales to Sigma and Tamron.

All they need to do is change their warranty policy, and I think this sort of question would be asked far less often. I've read enough claims by Nikon and Canon people using pro glass that the internal focusing mechanism failed. It's the nature of the beast. Just fix it for free if I'm paying you 1000 dollars.
02-04-2011, 06:34 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by xinu Quote
What is the reason for rolling back to the hacked 1.10 FW and not just downgrade to 1.20?
Also this info helps me with the inspection check to make sure the camera is at 1.30+ to see if the SDM is functioning.

Thanks
Greg
The roll back to the "Hacked 1.1 is required because the camera at 1.3 wont accept an earlier (un hacked) revision. From what I know it is only a 1.10 firmware available with the hacked open door. It's easy to do, and it works.
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