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12-14-2009, 05:58 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
If you don't like your lens choices, why not just change systems?
Part of the choice is the price. I'm afraid there is a vicious circle with price hikes and a certain threshold of the sheer number of Pentax users vs. higher prices. So far I don't see this anyway near, so right now it might just be a cockeyed price policy that will cost Pentax some christmas market shares.

I gotta post the trusty Ossy's price-tables from time to time (scroll down for the clickable list). Listed are german ebay used items prices, but could contain new/mint copies. Also, the MSRP (green line) is listed and the price of one big german Pentax dealer (light blue line). Exchange rate is around 1€ = 1.50 US-$

Here's the 12-24 and I guess it's typical for the development, the others look similar. Looks like Pentax just wants to double the prices. Clever ?


Thanks ossy59 for the constant updates (looks like he's become a reference worldwide .-) Exchange rate is around 1€ = 1.50 US-$


Last edited by georgweb; 12-14-2009 at 06:03 PM.
12-14-2009, 06:20 PM   #17
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When I was researching which DSLR system to buy into, in early 2008
I almost bought a Canon 40D setup but eventually decided on Pentax.
One of the main reasons was high quality lenses at affordable price

At that time you could buy FA50 for $200, FA35 for $300, DA40 for $250
The FA43 was around $500, FA77 around $700.
The DA12-24 IIRC was no more than $650
12-14-2009, 06:54 PM   #18
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the purpose is not just whining.

Whining is not the purpose.

The purpose is to let Pentax know the displeasure that some of us have felt.

Certainly, some would be perfectly happy with any pricing points. I am not one of them. I have a limited budget.

Certainly, one can move away from Pentax without a sound. That is not some of us would do. We would like to support Pentax as much as possible by buying more Pentax lenses.

I guess that reasonableness is in the eyes of beholder. But no reasonable individual would argue that one must move to other countries if s/he is not happy with some aspects of the US. Following the logic, at least 50% of Americans have to immediately move.
12-14-2009, 07:17 PM   #19
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I agree... it's not whining. It's that many us chose the Pentax system based on the value Pentax was offering us at the time. Now, that economic model/formula is out the window.

It's not just that prices have gone up a bit - or even by $100 for each lens. The price of anything beyond Pentax's kit lenses is now in another class entirely. Many Pentax shooters have been priced out of the market.

And, frankly, I don't want to hear about great deals on 20-year old manual focus lenses. The prices on those lenses are rising as well because of what's happening to the prices of new Pentax lenses.

The FA Limited primes were never cheap, of course, but now most of them are unobtainable for many of us. The same goes for the DA* zooms and primes. No one expects them to be bargain-basement cheap - or even close to the price of kit lenses. But many of us now will never purchase them. I wonder how much longer the DA Limited primes will be even close to affordable - but the God's honest truth is most of them aren't what I really want.

We're not whining - we're photographers who like Pentax and want to stay with Pentax. We're letting the company know how their pricing policy is affecting us and how Pentax is risking the loss of many of its current customers.

12-14-2009, 07:24 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Pentax DA12-24 typical cost in 2007 according to this sites' review section: $725-$780
Pentax DA12-24 cost today: $719

Where is this "astronomical rise in price" I keep hearing about?
In Canada it went from under $700 to RRP of $1200. FOr some bizarre reason it dropped like a stone last week which would indicate no one was buying the freakin thing and/or a WR is on the way.

The 50-135, 50/1.4, 16-50, 77 and 300/4 all took a serious leap too. The FA43 just went plain stupid into FA31 territory, well where the 31 used to be priced.
12-14-2009, 07:33 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Pentax DA12-24 typical cost in 2007 according to this sites' review section: $725-$780
Pentax DA12-24 cost today: $719

Where is this "astronomical rise in price" I keep hearing about?
In Canada the price of a Pentax 12-24 is $ 1299 CAD and there is not much difference in the dollar between CAD and USD.
12-14-2009, 07:35 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
In Canada it went from under $700 to RRP of $1200. FOr some bizarre reason it dropped like a stone last week which would indicate no one was buying the freakin thing and/or a WR is on the way.

The 50-135, 50/1.4, 16-50, 77 and 300/4 all took a serious leap too. The FA43 just went plain stupid into FA31 territory, well where the 31 used to be priced.
The price dropped $ 400 at Henry's for the 12-24...but other Pentax lenses also dropped. I think it's a sale, but not sure, hope it's the new MSRP.
12-14-2009, 07:36 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
I agree... it's not whining. It's that many us chose the Pentax system based on the value Pentax was offering us at the time. Now, that economic model/formula is out the window.

It's not just that prices have gone up a bit - or even by $100 for each lens. The price of anything beyond Pentax's kit lenses is now in another class entirely. Many Pentax shooters have been priced out of the market.

And, frankly, I don't want to hear about great deals on 20-year old manual focus lenses. The prices on those lenses are rising as well because of what's happening to the prices of new Pentax lenses.

The FA Limited primes were never cheap, of course, but now most of them are unobtainable for many of us. The same goes for the DA* zooms and primes. No one expects them to be bargain-basement cheap - or even close to the price of kit lenses. But many of us now will never purchase them. I wonder how much longer the DA Limited primes will be even close to affordable - but the God's honest truth is most of them aren't what I really want.

We're not whining - we're photographers who like Pentax and want to stay with Pentax. We're letting the company know how their pricing policy is affecting us and how Pentax is risking the loss of many of its current customers.
Ok...you are not whining.

You are just asking to get what you want at your price.

Seems reasonable. So, I guess the best solution is to consider what your best options are. I sincerely doubt that you are going to do better with another brand, especially considering that you would have to pay a premium for stabilized lenses unless you went with Sony. I don't shop in that sector, so I have no idea what lens options Sony owners have.

As you mention, there is also the matter of non-Pentax glass. Yes, some lenses have increased greatly in price. Probably the worst are the new prices for Russian Jupiter-9 and MC Zenitar 16/2.8 Fisheye lenses. I bought my J-9 for $85 in spring 2008 and my Zenitar for $135 about a month later. I believe they both peaked at more than double those prices a few months ago. Used prices are also going up. The Helios 44M that I paid $15 for this last summer is hard to find for under $25 anymore.

Some used lenses have actually gone down in price. A good example would be the Pentax-A 50/1.7. I paid $120 for mine in spring of 2007 shortly after the K10D release and felt grateful to get one at that price. I think the going rate now is about 2/3 that amount.

So, again...what are you options? Pentax are not going to drop their prices to 2007 levels.

BTW...I can't afford new Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, or Tokina lenses either. Too expensive. However, I have a bunch of glass not listed in my signature and have spent less than $1700 for lenses in the last 40 years. It might not all be the best glass, but I am generally happy with the results.

Steve

12-14-2009, 07:52 PM   #24
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I think the prices of Pentax in Canada took a bigger jump then they did in the US.

There is also a big difference between the price of the Pentax vs the Tokina version

Pentax
16-50 $1100
50-135 $1200
12-24 $1300
DA 35 ltd $700

total $4300

Tokina
16-50 $900
50-135 $900
12-24 $700
AT-X af 35 $650

total $3150

Still have $1150 to spend...and no SDm issues!
12-14-2009, 08:07 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
The price dropped $ 400 at Henry's for the 12-24...but other Pentax lenses also dropped. I think it's a sale, but not sure, hope it's the new MSRP.
Check out Aden though, the FA's have dropped there for some reason.
12-14-2009, 08:18 PM   #26
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This has been beaten into the ground. There are three issues. First of all, the lenses were either codeveloped, or developed primarily by Pentax. Tokina can't sell lenses based on Pentax's designs to Pentax's customers without Pentax's permission, which of course wouldn't be granted. Second, brand name will cost more, by definition. Tokina is selling off brand lenses to Canon and Nikon customers, who if they had the money, would rather be buying Canon or Nikor lenses, not the off brand lenses. Pentax is selling k mount lenses, for a camera that they make. Pentax will never price their lenses below Tamron or Sigma, at least they shouldn't. Finally, Tokina has said that they will not market their lenses to mounts that have less than 5 percent of the SLR market. That, to this point, has basically limited it to Canon and Nikon. With Sony making a move, perhaps they will look at them seriously, but that would be about it.
12-14-2009, 08:21 PM   #27
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wow! a great graph

So the price increase is not only due to depreciating dollars... Not sure if the numbers were adjusted for the longitudinal variations (changes over time) between euros and dollars.


QuoteOriginally posted by georgweb Quote
Part of the choice is the price. I'm afraid there is a vicious circle with price hikes and a certain threshold of the sheer number of Pentax users vs. higher prices. So far I don't see this anyway near, so right now it might just be a cockeyed price policy that will cost Pentax some christmas market shares.

I gotta post the trusty Ossy's price-tables from time to time (scroll down for the clickable list). Listed are german ebay used items prices, but could contain new/mint copies. Also, the MSRP (green line) is listed and the price of one big german Pentax dealer (light blue line). Exchange rate is around 1€ = 1.50 US-$

Here's the 12-24 and I guess it's typical for the development, the others look similar. Looks like Pentax just wants to double the prices. Clever ?


Thanks ossy59 for the constant updates (looks like he's become a reference worldwide .-) Exchange rate is around 1€ = 1.50 US-$
12-14-2009, 08:41 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.
Very true, but ---> consider this.

(Tokina 12-24 f/4 for Nikon, $399 new from B&H.)
Yes, but isn't that because this lens has been replaced already and they are closing out old stock? Although the new version is still only $500. In any case, like I said, it makes sense that Tokina can sell lenses for Nikon at a lower price point than Pentax can sell lenses for Pentax because they are dealing with far higher volume plus they had part of their development cost subsidized.
12-14-2009, 08:42 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Dave,
I thought it was discontinued as well. It not listed on pentaximaging.com, but is available through the Pentax Web store (PentaxWebstore smcP FA 35mm f/2.0 AL) at $475. It is also still on the active list at Pentax Japan's Web site.
Well, looks like I'm wrong. I certainly did not think Pentax was still selling them, I was comfortable blaming the greedy dealers.

Your point about Russian lenses does go to prove that exchange rates are sometimes behind price hikes.

I probably should be counted as one of those fat cats who bought all their lenses at great prices and now are unconcerned about those who came later. I know I remember feeling the same way about the lucky b*st*rds that bought used FA lenses for shockingly low prices in 2003.
12-14-2009, 08:48 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
50mm fa f1.4 / DA 12-24mm f4 / 35mm fa f2. Look at the market price just a year ago. The MSRP is almost meaningless, IMHO.
Who said anything about MSRP? I'm talking the real street prices. The 12-24 is still what most people reported having paid for it two years ago. Which is actually rather remarkable given the 20% drop in the value of the dollar against the yen.

As for the 35, it was discontinued with no replacement, so no surprise its price has gone up due to simple supply and demand. The 50/1.4 is indeed the one lens that has gone up the most in percentage terms, but still, we're talking about only a $100 or so rise - hardly "astronomical" when one considers it is still priced right in line with the 50/1.4's from the other manufacturers. It was severely *underpriced* before.

In any case, how does referring to FA35 and FA50 in any way prove any sort of point regarding Tokina?
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