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12-15-2009, 11:08 AM   #61
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QuoteQuote:
jboyde: Im curious to which Nikon-Pentax adapter you use and what compromises you have to make.
I do not use an adapter--I just bayonet the lenses into the K-mount. I am using older, manual lenses. There is a lot of discussion on this all over this forum.

If you do not mind manually setting aperture and manual foucs, you can have a lot of fun with Nikon glass too. Some of the lenses do not lock into the K-mount--some actually do.

Of course, proceed at your own risk.

Let me know if you want me to post a thread or 2 on this--best!

12-15-2009, 11:09 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
Here is more evidence.

The blue lines are representing market prices from known Internet vendors. The green lines represent the prices from places such as EBay and the prices of the items that might not be new.

Interesting one-year price trend graphs from pricespider.com. Unfortunately, there are no "air bars" indicating the variance. According to the site information, the blue line is the median* price (not the same as average) from all retail vendors they survey that offer the item. The green line is the lowest price from the retail vendors they survey (no, not auctions). For example, the DA 12-24 (which started this whole mess) graph is below:



Note the green line at the bottom. That is the $580 price from digitalfoto which has remained amazingly constant all year at that price. The blue line (median) took a big jump and has stayed at the same price range for most of the year. Again, this is the median price from 12577 stores. The price range as of today?

Low: $580
High: $1100
That, in case anyone did not notice, is a pretty big spread. Today's price at B&H is $719.95.

Steve

(*Median...that point on a frequency distribution separating the higher half from the lower half. For a sample with 1000 merchants, it would be the point just above the lowest 500 and just below the highest 500.)

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-15-2009 at 11:14 AM.
12-15-2009, 11:18 AM   #63
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Sometimes I wish Tokina made their 50-135 and 16-50 for Pentax... No SDM and cheaper than the optically same Pentax versions. Now with the money saved, that's a wonderful Nikon D300s with a line-up of Tokina being the same price as K-7 with the same optics.
12-15-2009, 11:19 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
...Note the green line at the bottom. That is the $580 price from digitalfoto which has remained amazingly constant all year at that price...
I went to the digitalfoto Web site and could not find the 12-24 at that price point. They had a "kit" at $730. I don't know what that says about the validity of pricespider's data.

Steve

12-15-2009, 11:42 AM   #65
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Original Poster
where are my price figures?

They disappeared from my post. Did I unknowingly violate any rules? Fortunately, the post is still there and you can still search for the figures by yourself.
12-15-2009, 11:47 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
Here is more evidence.

The blue lines are representing market prices from known Internet vendors. The green lines represent the prices from places such as EBay and the prices of the items that might not be new.
FWIW, the links aren't working for me.
12-15-2009, 11:54 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
They disappeared from my post. Did I unknowingly violate any rules? Fortunately, the post is still there and you can still search for the figures by yourself.
Pricespider may have a mechanism to guard against deep linking of content. More likely is that the image is dynamically generated and cached. The cache has since expired along with the link to the resource.

Steve
12-15-2009, 12:12 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As for the "anti-competitive" aspect of the Tokina/Pentax non-compete...The question that comes to my mind is why people expect that Tokina would want to go into direct competition to undercut their biggest OEM customer who also provides substantial engineering and design assistance?

I also thought of the Miranda/Soligor situation, though one must remember that both lines were owned and sold by the same company. I think that the current arrangement between Pentax and Tokina is more similar to the contracts that Vivitar had with its various manufacturers in the 70s and early 80s where Vivitar provided the designs.

Steve
Honda/Acura.

Sure, you can get a Honda with leather, nav, 17" or bigger rims...and although an Acura is a Honda, a Honda is not an Acura. You can't get stuff like voice activation, DVD Audio, HID headlights, extra sound deadening...the list goes on. Those are only things you can get on an Acura...somewhat like Pentax SMC coatings.

You're also going to be invited to the "Reality" social group if anyone ever starts one
QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
Whining is not the purpose.

The purpose is to let Pentax know the displeasure that some of us have felt.

Certainly, some would be perfectly happy with any pricing points. I am not one of them. I have a limited budget.

Certainly, one can move away from Pentax without a sound. That is not some of us would do. We would like to support Pentax as much as possible by buying more Pentax lenses.

I guess that reasonableness is in the eyes of beholder. But no reasonable individual would argue that one must move to other countries if s/he is not happy with some aspects of the US. Following the logic, at least 50% of Americans have to immediately move.
My question is: What are you going to do?

Adding emphasis: What are you going to do? There are plenty of complaints on the internet and PF already.

As far as the US/country leaving part...you can either 1) Complain, 2) Leave, 3) Change it and become involved, or 4) Deal with it without complaint.
QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
I probably should be counted as one of those fat cats who bought all their lenses at great prices and now are unconcerned about those who came later. I know I remember feeling the same way about the lucky b*st*rds that bought used FA lenses for shockingly low prices in 2003.
Yep! But what can we do but think back...
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
(Has very little current glass...too cheap to buy that plastic stuff...)


QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
Sometimes I wish Tokina made their 50-135 and 16-50 for Pentax... No SDM and cheaper than the optically same Pentax versions. Now with the money saved, that's a wonderful Nikon D300s with a line-up of Tokina being the same price as K-7 with the same optics.
We did the math a couple days ago, only with a Canon 50D in one of the other myriad threads...

12-15-2009, 12:16 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by jboyde Quote
I've had enough of people whining about other people whining about these price spikes.

And this isn't whining?

This is a FORUM! A means to where people can voice their opinions, which YOU seem to have no problem doing!

Which you seem to have no problem doing.

Unless a poster is abusive, using foul language or violating some code of conduct, that person has a right to vent about what's bothering them.

Absolutely but some call it venting, others call it whining, Wheatfield was just exercising his right as are you.

Especially when the sentiment is shared among many other people.

Can we see some numbers to back up that statement? Over exaggeration tends to be a whiners device.

It won't change the price hikes but at least they can get the frustration out of their system!

And bore the rest of us to tears because we've heard it so many times

As YOU like to comment, rather condecendingly at times, in posts. That is YOUR choice.
I will be exercising MY choice and put you on "ignore".

Would you like us to provide you with a list of other members with a wealth of knowledge who you are probably going to put on your ignore list? It will be quite long if your skin is really that thin.


In my opinion, you are a non-helpful addition to this site.

At 68 posts, it remains to be seen if you are going to be a helpful or non helpful addition to this site but if you take the trouble to search through Wheatfields substantial number of posts, you'll see an awful lot of helpful and useful information.
Perhaps you'd like to start a thread (including a poll perhaps) asking people whether Wheatfield is a helpful or non helpful addition to the forum although, after nearly 4,000 posts I think the word fixture would be more appropriate than addition. I'm sure he won't mind because he knows the numbers will be in his favour.
12-15-2009, 12:16 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Interesting one-year price trend graphs from pricespider.com. Unfortunately, there are no "air bars" indicating the variance.
And also unfortunate that is begins with an obviously anomalous couple of spikes - one down, one up - at the beginning of the year. Had the data extended backwards a little further, we'd have more clearly seen just how anomalous those data points are. Also, it's unfortunate that it gives only median and lowest, since neither is necessarily a true picture of what people tend to actually pay. Median goes up every time someone tries to sell it as list price (and who knows how it handles companies like Amazon, B&H, and Adorama that often make you actually put the item in your cart to see the price), and lowest probably includes some out and out scams. Much better would be to track the actual price *paid* for the lens - real humans have a way of weeding out the artificially high and low prices and paying the lowest *legitimate* price.
12-15-2009, 12:31 PM   #71
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Forget the Tokina 11-16mm

The original poster is in grief. According to the Kübler-Ross model of grief there are 5 stages:

Denial (Pentax will be releasing a DA* version of the 11-16mm any minute now)
Anger (Tokina and Pentax: this is outrageous) to be followed by:
Bargaining
Depression and
Acceptance.

For me, acceptance means buying the Sigma 10-20mm f3.5 (a half stop slower than the Tokina, but wider at the wide end and a greater zoom range).
12-15-2009, 01:45 PM   #72
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Tokina and Pentax

Pentax, for me, was largely a price-driven choice. I liked AA batteries, and I thought the 18-55 kit lens for Pentax was leaps and bounds better than the kit lenses for the other camera brands, but mostly I liked buying Anti-Shake just one time and getting a camera that could hit ISO 3200 for less than $500.
If you've been with Pentax for twenty years, then I can't speak to your experience, but if you got into Pentax since the first *ist DSLR, then you got into it knowing you wouldn't have the lens selection of Nikon or Canon. And you got into it knowing that Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, and Vivitar (plus the Russian fisheye guys) were going to roll out their lenses first and foremost for Canon and Nikon, and they'd get around to making K-mount lenses later on. Presumably you knew that, as I did, and you were still persuaded to go with Pentax because you liked the cameras, you liked the value, etc. Maybe you also liked being a little bit of an outsider, too; no shame there.
I had $400 to spend, and the K-100D Super on closeout looked pretty good from my cash-poor perspective. I knew I could get an old manual 50mm on eBay, dreamed of one day owning the 10-17mm fisheye, and that was that. I doubt too many of you dream more than one or two lenses ahead of yourselves.
That was the deal as I plunked my money down, and that deal hasn't changed too much, but it has changed. The price jump on the 50mm 1.4 is a big jump, whether we're measuring in dollars, pounds, yen, or percentage points. And the 50mm 1.4 is one of those Everyman (Everywoman?) lenses, a common reference mark many of us used when we looked at Pentax's lineup and compared it to whatever other marques we were considering. Pancake primes, the zoom fisheye, extreme telephotos , those are niche items and Pentax/Hoya can price those however it wants to without worrying me. I understand why Tokina can't eat its own thumb by undercutting Pentax lenses. I don't like it, but I understand the economics of it. I don't understand, (and I feel a little upset by) bumping the price of the normal/portrait prime by $150 and leaving students/ value-driven hobbyists without a 50mm 1.8 in line with the Pentax value we thought we were buying into when we bought our cameras.
12-15-2009, 02:43 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by yyyzzz Quote
The prices of 35mm fa and 50mm fa f1.4 are getting out of hand. I can live with this since I have many 50mm lenses.

But how many ultra wide glasses are available? Sigma and Tamron have four or five offerings. But none of them is perfect for me. Clearly we have fewer choices in ultra wide angle lenses. We also have to pay a significantly higher price for the fact.

I certainly understand all the reasons behind the high prices we have to pay. That is not the point. I am unhappy about the fact, not the reasons behind the fact.
Somehow I can understand your notion. But looking a bit distanced at it, I wonder, where you would detect a lack of wide angle choice?
Pentax offers 14mm, 15mm, a 10-17mm zoom, a 12-24mm zoom, 21mm. Also there is the Sigma 10-20, Sigma 12-24, the Tamron 10-something... Okay, that makes only 8 lenses - good enough for me, I think.

Ben
12-15-2009, 03:07 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Okay, that makes only 8 lenses - good enough for me, I think.

Ben
C'mon Ben, what about the people with 9 cameras. Have a heart.
12-15-2009, 03:13 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
...since neither is necessarily a true picture of what people tend to actually pay...
That is so true! Any real indicator of street price would graph the price paid for actual units sold.

Steve
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