Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-17-2009, 05:00 PM   #121
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,415
QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Ha ha... A lens rental company "the guys who should know" and "They dont deal in Pentax"! Well that speaks volumes on so many levels!
Clever Gus...did you read the article?

Steve

12-17-2009, 05:17 PM   #122
Igilligan
Guest




I did and thank you for the link... It is a good article that explains the difference between rental "shock test" and our lenses which we baby beyond belief. It is a good indicator of failure rates though.

Not sure how it applies to this 'shotgun' discussion we are having, but it is definitely some more pellets for the next re-load. And "clever" or not... having no pentax lenses is telling to me. My guess is, the Pentax Da 50 135 would be on the same list as that tamron 70-200 (we dont stock it anymore because we cant afford too) Just a guess
12-17-2009, 06:11 PM   #123
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, Oregon, US
Posts: 97
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
But that the 50-135 should suffer "a bad reputation" sounds very strange. From waht I have read (and seen in images) in this forum, the contrary is true, the 50-135 stands in highest regards, due to its prime-like performance.
Agreed, the optical quality is superb. I doubt anyone would debate that. And the Pentax-specific features such as Quick-Shift are very nice.

The achilles heel is the SDM, compounded with an obnoxious Catch-22: when the SDM goes on the fritz even temporarily, there is no way to use the lens's old-fashioned but quite reliable screw-drive mechanism to Auto-Focus, even though it's right there in the lens! (From what I read here, anyway.) And then Pentax seems to take a couple months to return the lens after repair, which is another dent in the armor.

My point, however, is that Pentax could easily and cheaply implement several responses to the few problems, and they have NOT done so. This is what concerns me, that they are so out of touch with their reputation, whether or not the reputation is deserved.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
NO manufacturer will publish data on faults of its products. The only industry that has a hard time to safeguard these data is the car industry with its regular recalls.
Right, no manufacturer wants to admit they're less than perfect. That's exactly what I was trying to say. (Another exception to the rule is the General Aviation industry, where the FAA not only reports the problems but actually requires owners to immediately fix the problems, at their own expense!)
12-17-2009, 06:26 PM   #124
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,216
I think the clear thing from the lens rental post was just a general iteration that electronics break down and the more heavily they are used the more often they break down. Sure, these are non Pentax lenses, but many of the lenses on the list are high end "well built" lenses and they still break down. I continue to wonder how Pentax's implementation of SDM compares to Canon and Nikon's in lens motors. I still have no idea, but it certainly looks like these are prone to breaking down. Of course, the Tamron 70-200 that tops the list doesn't have an in lens motor at all...

12-17-2009, 07:56 PM   #125
Igilligan
Guest




Actually Rondec... I believe you are mistaken on the Tamron 70--200mm lens. It does not have motor for Pentax mount, but it definitely does for the Nikon version.
12-17-2009, 08:20 PM   #126
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,216
Sorry, I didn't realize. I guess plus one for Pentax there -- probably a more durable lens for the lacking lens motor...
12-17-2009, 08:43 PM   #127
Pentaxian
Just1MoreDave's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,858
QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
...Not sure how it applies to this 'shotgun' discussion we are having, but it is definitely some more pellets for the next re-load. And "clever" or not... having no pentax lenses is telling to me. My guess is, the Pentax Da 50 135 would be on the same list as that tamron 70-200 (we dont stock it anymore because we cant afford too) Just a guess
I'm not actively looking for them, but you know, I haven't seen anyone offer broken lenses for sale. Shouldn't there be ads? Like say, "DA* 16-50/2.8 and DA*50-135/2.8, SDM failed, $150 for one or $250 both". Hey, they'd AF on my camera.
12-17-2009, 08:59 PM   #128
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 9,193
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
They don't deal in Pentax, ...
Brands they deal with are:
Canon, Nikon, Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, Olympus, Zeiss, Leica, Schneider, Voigtlander, and Sony.
And no Pentax, ouch.

The numbers really don't say that much except that lenses fail and that this is probably helped by shipping them around a lot and having them treated by users who don't own them. The numbers would be relevant for the SDM discussion, if they included Pentax SDM lenses.

Too bad that SDM capable cameras do not allow to revert to screw-driven operation. That wouldn't be hard to enable and would take away at least some of the heat.


Last edited by Class A; 12-17-2009 at 09:15 PM.
12-17-2009, 09:53 PM   #129
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,415
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Brands they deal with are:
Canon, Nikon, Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, Olympus, Zeiss, Leica, Schneider, Voigtlander, and Sony.
And no Pentax, ouch.

The numbers really don't say that much except that lenses fail and that this is probably helped by shipping them around a lot and having them treated by users who don't own them. The numbers would be relevant for the SDM discussion, if they included Pentax SDM lenses.

Too bad that SDM capable cameras do not allow to revert to screw-driven operation. That wouldn't be hard to enable and would take away at least some of the heat.
In the article, they indicate that some lenses were bad new in the box. There is probably something to the abuse angle, but the rental place was quick to qualify their claims by indicating that the data does not include lenses that had obvious traumatic damage.

Personally, a high defect rate does not particularly surprise me. I don't like it, but it is consistent with the general quality level of technology products (computers, monitors, TVs, etc.). It is easier and cheaper to include the end consumer in the QA loop.

Steve
12-17-2009, 10:55 PM   #130
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,423
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
In the article, they indicate that some lenses were bad new in the box. There is probably something to the abuse angle, but the rental place was quick to qualify their claims by indicating that the data does not include lenses that had obvious traumatic damage.

Personally, a high defect rate does not particularly surprise me. I don't like it, but it is consistent with the general quality level of technology products (computers, monitors, TVs, etc.). It is easier and cheaper to include the end consumer in the QA loop.

Steve
Not that I include Pentax in this rant, but no company cares about anything any more, Just today I had the following happen:
  1. A $700 Display Easel was delivered in an unopened package with one leg sheared off at the mount. It HAD to have been packed that way - it could not have been damaged in transit. The supplier will exchange for a new one Monday - hopefully. Although they were very nice, I was on hold for 13 minutes waiting for CS to answer.
  2. A $275 lens purchase was marked on USPS Tracking as "Delivery Attempted at 2:39 pm - Claim Form left." There are 135 people at the business location where the delivery was attempted, including a receptionist at the only entrance to the location. There is no claim form.
  3. My daughter waited 5 hours for UPS to pick up her packages being sent home from college (rather than paying for checked luggage). When she called UPS they claimed they had knocked on her door several times and called the number on her pickup form. She was sitting in her suite in front of the window the entire time, with her cell phone. She had to borrow a car and RUSH to the UPS Store, where the counter-person was just locking the door ten minutes early.
That's just today.

Makes me want to look at my CS Performance.
12-18-2009, 12:00 AM   #131
Damn Brit
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Not you too DB... Oh you are so buying dinner next time if I have to put you on the apologists list. If not dinner, then a whole lot of beer if you start talking the 'new strategy" haha
I'm not being an apologist Gus, I'm just surmising how it is.

The ones who need to be paying for dinner AND the beers are the ones who are complaining about the high cost of lenses they don't need.

Last edited by Damn Brit; 12-18-2009 at 12:11 AM.
12-18-2009, 12:53 AM   #132
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mohave Valley, AZ
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 213
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Right - Pentax does, except for the 18-250, which was made by Tamron. A few people have been fooled into thinking that because Tokina puts out certain co-designed lenses under their own name, that this means Tokina actually designed and built the lenses for Pentax. But this is not true.
Your pardon please. Allow me to append my previous statement.

People THINK they know who makes Pentax's lenses, and therefore think that a side-by-side comparison is valid.

I can't comment either way since I haven't had the chance to compare them.
12-18-2009, 01:46 AM   #133
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 9,193
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
There is probably something to the abuse angle, but the rental place was quick to qualify their claims by indicating that the data does not include lenses that had obvious traumatic damage.
They explicitly mentioned abuse and said that a new way to package a particular lens reduced its defect rate. The message was implicit but clearly they considered that some abuse doesn't cause obvious traumatic damage but still (perhaps through accumulated effect) has an effect. Also their mistrust in repair centres diagnosing damage to shock may not be completely warranted as even brand new lenses may have received shock at the factory or during shipping.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Not that I include Pentax in this rant, but no company cares about anything any more, ...
Maybe there are some exceptions but in general I'm completely with you on this.

The customer is only important to the extent it can be used to increase the holy shareholder value. Walt Disney once said "We donít make movies to make money, we make money to make more movies.". This kind of passion for the product rather than the profit seems to have become a very rare commodity.
12-18-2009, 02:45 AM   #134
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Untied States
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,882
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Walt Disney once said "We donít make movies to make money, we make money to make more movies.". This kind of passion for the product rather than the profit seems to have become a very rare commodity.
It can easily be argued that any semblance of that creed does not exist with the Disney Corporation any longer... or any other large American media-based corporation...
12-18-2009, 04:49 AM   #135
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The numbers really don't say that much except that lenses fail and that this is probably helped by shipping them around a lot and having them treated by users who don't own them. The numbers would be relevant for the SDM discussion, if they included Pentax SDM lenses.

Too bad that SDM capable cameras do not allow to revert to screw-driven operation. That wouldn't be hard to enable and would take away at least some of the heat.
First, I find the lensrental page very interesting. And, in my view, it contains a very valuable assessment, which can be transfered to SDM: Many lenses from all the listed manufacturers have consistently AF and AF motor problems. I think, that these quite fragile mechanisms are a problem with all of them and Pentax may be not an exception, but also may be not really worse. (that's all guesswork, ofcourse)

I would also like to emphasize your last sentence: Pentax should make SDM/screwdriver AF switchable. That should be possible with Firmware ("enforce screwdriver AF"). That would give us a fallback.

Ben
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
12-24mm, alliance, k-mount, outrageous, pentax, pentax lens, price, slr lens, tokina, users
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DC motor tech from Tokina? Tokina and Pentax relationship? kales Pentax News and Rumors 68 10-14-2010 12:34 PM
For Sale - Sold: Tokina 20-35mm f2.8 AT-X Pro, Tokina 28-80mm f2.8 AT-X Pro, Tokina 100-300mm f photobizzz Sold Items 7 01-30-2009 06:04 PM
Tokina/Pentax 11-18 F2.8 ??? xGene Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 3 09-08-2008 04:04 PM
For Sale - Sold: FS: Tokina 17mm, Tokina 100-300mm, Sigma 28-200mm time-snaps Sold Items 2 07-24-2007 03:47 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:28 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top