Good walkaround lens to augment/substitute kit 18-55?

moSIN · 12-22-2009, 08:13 PM

The results are pretty much the same throughout - soft. And this tint seems to be harder to correct than I initially thought.

Marc Sabatella · 12-22-2009, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by moSIN

if I focus on the near eye but the lens is focusing on something else instead, isn't there something wrong with the lens then?

No, the lens has nothing to do with where the camera chooses to focus. The problem is, the camera provides no way to tell it *exactly* where you want focus to be. All you can do with the selectable focus points is say you want it "somewhere near" that spot. And on the posted shots, "somewhere near" could have been just about anywhere on the face or portions of the background or portions of the foreground. That's why when focus is critical, MF is usually better.

moSIN · 12-22-2009, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

No, the lens has nothing to do with where the camera chooses to focus. The problem is, the camera provides no way to tell it *exactly* where you want focus to be. All you can do with the selectable focus points is say you want it "somewhere near" that spot. And on the posted shots, "somewhere near" could have been just about anywhere on the face or portions of the background or portions of the foreground. That's why when focus is critical, MF is usually better.

To be honest, I'm a little dumb struck by that. How much leeway (in inches) does the camera have when it beeps confirming focus lock? For some reason, I thought I was supposed to be pretty accurate in the digital age and modern tolerances.
Is there any specific technique that would help me get the focus where I want it to be or at least to improve my chances?

I always try to keep the centre spot for focusing and use it as default. With k-x it is especially important since it doesn't tell you which spot it uses to AF.

pinholecam · 12-23-2009, 12:27 AM

Can you share the picture with the EXIF intact?

How about a newspaper test? (ie. a 45 degree shot of a newspaper print to check for front or back focusing).

moSIN · 12-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by pinholecam

Can you share the picture with the EXIF intact?

How about a newspaper test? (ie. a 45 degree shot of a newspaper print to check for front or back focusing).

How do I share a picture with the EXIF intact?
Or another question, is there a quick way to export EXIF data from somewhere?

Will try the newspaper test tonight.

Thanks.

flockofbirds · 12-23-2009, 03:07 PM

Can you take some shots outside? I don't know why but for some reason when I shoot inside my camera can tend to focus, in some situations, in areas I didn't intend.

jerrymouse · 12-23-2009, 03:32 PM

Try to stop down the kit lens a little bit (e.g. F/8). They're not stellar wide open, especially in the tele end.

Pentaxor · 12-23-2009, 04:45 PM

moSIN, can you try shooting it at 35mm f/8 ? also could you lower the flash power output or increase shutter speed just to see if your image would look washed-out? also can you try adjusting or customizing the White Balance?

the focusing can be quite a bit tricky on the k-x. if you are still having trouble with it, maybe you want to consider buying a used (cheaper) or new K20D (same price range).

moSIN · 12-23-2009, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by flockofbirds

Can you take some shots outside? I don't know why but for some reason when I shoot inside my camera can tend to focus, in some situations, in areas I didn't intend.

Outside. Good sharpness, spot-on white balance, outstanding dynamic range.
Now getting the same level of performance indoors isn't as easy.

I believe my main issue with sharpness is shotting wide open at the extreme zooms outside of the lens' sweet spot.

The focusing issue still remains, though with practice I think I will be able to work around it.

Thank you all for your input and advice.

Pentaxor · 12-23-2009, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by moSIN

Outside. Good sharpness, spot-on white balance, outstanding dynamic range.
Now getting the same level of performance indoors isn't as easy.

I believe my main issue with sharpness is shotting wide open at the extreme zooms outside of the lens' sweet spot.

The focusing issue still remains, though with practice I think I will be able to work around it.

Thank you all for your input and advice.

moSIN, I do admit that one of the problems that I have with the kitlens is it's weak contrast. you can read my review about the kitlens here >>> Pentax Lens Review and Specification Database - 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR.

since you have a tight budget, I think you have to work your way around the lens. it is not that bad nor is it great. sometimes you need a bit of stopping down and sometimes a bit of tweaking. but anyway, if you have the cash, I suggest that you go for a 16-45/f4 which is sold for just over 200 bucks in very good condition (sometimes brand new). that color on that lens is very well-managed and is very good. and the sharpness and contrast are very good as well. if you still experience a problem with the k-x, sell the thing and just buy the K20D, which isn't bad at ISO 3200.

Pentaxor · 12-23-2009, 07:13 PM

moSIN, I'm just wondering if you had tried shooting at 12MP resolution with a sensitivity of ISO 100-200?

Alfisti · 12-23-2009, 07:50 PM

To me the colours are fine, i prefer cooler as warmer is hard to correct and you're washing out because of the flash. Tinker a bit and you'll get it right.

Now, OTOH, the lens is plain soft, I know you're shooting wide open but really ........ at pixel level that's softer than it outta be. Your shutter speed is fine.

Is the camera selecting the AF point or are you? Wait, even if you were choosing the af point you couldn't damn well see which one! For that reason alone I am stunned anyone would by this camera, i just find it totally unaccaptable that you cannot see the af point you are choosing.

Regardless, i see no obvious signs of missed focus and you are getting great results in good light.

I do wonder if there is a pattern here ...... see new thread.

jacksonpritt · 12-23-2009, 08:31 PM

Why limit yourself to a $200 lens for the Pentax when you're thinking about getting VR lenses for the Nikon?

I think you'll find that decent Nikon lenses with VR will cost a lot more than you think.

jacksonpritt · 12-23-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by moSIN

I have many examples I can post but all are basically showing the same thing.
I always try to focus on the near eye. The crops are pretty close to the centre.
Another question - if I focus on the near eye but the lens is focusing on something else instead, isn't there something wrong with the lens then?

The EXIF data for the following shot is:

Shutter speed: 1/160sec
Exposure Program: Manual
F-Stop: f/4.5
Aperture Value: f/4.4
ISO speed ratings: 400
Focal Length: 40 mm

The face was smack in the middle of the frame. So I focused on the eyes then pressed the shutter button completely to take the shot without reframing in order to eliminate any user error. Still the same result.

The file was saved as DNG in-camera. Opened in Adobe camera raw with default settings and then saved without modification as jpeg with high quality setting 8.

Based on your attached images it looks like your camera is front-focusing when using your kit lens. If you look at her sweater, the texture of the sweater that is somewhat closer to the camera than her face looks nice and sharp, but her face is slightly out of focus.

I suggest sending the camera & lens back to Pentax and requesting that they be calibrated.

pinholecam · 12-23-2009, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by moSIN

How do I share a picture with the EXIF intact?
Or another question, is there a quick way to export EXIF data from somewhere?

Will try the newspaper test tonight.

Thanks.

hmm... the EXIF data appears by default on my camera ( I only shoot JPEGs). Might be set to 'off' on your camera.

Yes, I think the newspaper test will help to check if its a focus issue.

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12-22-2009, 08:13 PM	#16
moSIN New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 14 Original Poster	The results are pretty much the same throughout - soft. And this tint seems to be harder to correct than I initially thought.

12-22-2009, 09:44 PM	#17
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by moSIN if I focus on the near eye but the lens is focusing on something else instead, isn't there something wrong with the lens then? No, the lens has nothing to do with where the camera chooses to focus. The problem is, the camera provides no way to tell it exactly where you want focus to be. All you can do with the selectable focus points is say you want it "somewhere near" that spot. And on the posted shots, "somewhere near" could have been just about anywhere on the face or portions of the background or portions of the foreground. That's why when focus is critical, MF is usually better.

12-22-2009, 10:16 PM	#18
moSIN New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella No, the lens has nothing to do with where the camera chooses to focus. The problem is, the camera provides no way to tell it exactly where you want focus to be. All you can do with the selectable focus points is say you want it "somewhere near" that spot. And on the posted shots, "somewhere near" could have been just about anywhere on the face or portions of the background or portions of the foreground. That's why when focus is critical, MF is usually better. To be honest, I'm a little dumb struck by that. How much leeway (in inches) does the camera have when it beeps confirming focus lock? For some reason, I thought I was supposed to be pretty accurate in the digital age and modern tolerances. Is there any specific technique that would help me get the focus where I want it to be or at least to improve my chances? I always try to keep the centre spot for focusing and use it as default. With k-x it is especially important since it doesn't tell you which spot it uses to AF.

12-23-2009, 12:27 AM	#19
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Can you share the picture with the EXIF intact? How about a newspaper test? (ie. a 45 degree shot of a newspaper print to check for front or back focusing).

12-23-2009, 01:31 PM	#20
moSIN New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by pinholecam Can you share the picture with the EXIF intact? How about a newspaper test? (ie. a 45 degree shot of a newspaper print to check for front or back focusing). How do I share a picture with the EXIF intact? Or another question, is there a quick way to export EXIF data from somewhere? Will try the newspaper test tonight. Thanks.

12-23-2009, 03:07 PM	#21
flockofbirds Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 178	Can you take some shots outside? I don't know why but for some reason when I shoot inside my camera can tend to focus, in some situations, in areas I didn't intend.

12-23-2009, 03:32 PM	#22
jerrymouse Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pilsen, Czech Republic Posts: 224	Try to stop down the kit lens a little bit (e.g. F/8). They're not stellar wide open, especially in the tele end.

12-23-2009, 04:45 PM	#23
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	moSIN, can you try shooting it at 35mm f/8 ? also could you lower the flash power output or increase shutter speed just to see if your image would look washed-out? also can you try adjusting or customizing the White Balance? the focusing can be quite a bit tricky on the k-x. if you are still having trouble with it, maybe you want to consider buying a used (cheaper) or new K20D (same price range).

12-23-2009, 05:03 PM	#24
moSIN New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by flockofbirds Can you take some shots outside? I don't know why but for some reason when I shoot inside my camera can tend to focus, in some situations, in areas I didn't intend. Outside. Good sharpness, spot-on white balance, outstanding dynamic range. Now getting the same level of performance indoors isn't as easy. I believe my main issue with sharpness is shotting wide open at the extreme zooms outside of the lens' sweet spot. The focusing issue still remains, though with practice I think I will be able to work around it. Thank you all for your input and advice.

12-23-2009, 06:14 PM	#25
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by moSIN Outside. Good sharpness, spot-on white balance, outstanding dynamic range. Now getting the same level of performance indoors isn't as easy. I believe my main issue with sharpness is shotting wide open at the extreme zooms outside of the lens' sweet spot. The focusing issue still remains, though with practice I think I will be able to work around it. Thank you all for your input and advice. moSIN, I do admit that one of the problems that I have with the kitlens is it's weak contrast. you can read my review about the kitlens here >>> Pentax Lens Review and Specification Database - 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR. since you have a tight budget, I think you have to work your way around the lens. it is not that bad nor is it great. sometimes you need a bit of stopping down and sometimes a bit of tweaking. but anyway, if you have the cash, I suggest that you go for a 16-45/f4 which is sold for just over 200 bucks in very good condition (sometimes brand new). that color on that lens is very well-managed and is very good. and the sharpness and contrast are very good as well. if you still experience a problem with the k-x, sell the thing and just buy the K20D, which isn't bad at ISO 3200.

12-23-2009, 07:13 PM	#26
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	moSIN, I'm just wondering if you had tried shooting at 12MP resolution with a sensitivity of ISO 100-200?

12-23-2009, 07:50 PM	#27
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	To me the colours are fine, i prefer cooler as warmer is hard to correct and you're washing out because of the flash. Tinker a bit and you'll get it right. Now, OTOH, the lens is plain soft, I know you're shooting wide open but really ........ at pixel level that's softer than it outta be. Your shutter speed is fine. Is the camera selecting the AF point or are you? Wait, even if you were choosing the af point you couldn't damn well see which one! For that reason alone I am stunned anyone would by this camera, i just find it totally unaccaptable that you cannot see the af point you are choosing. Regardless, i see no obvious signs of missed focus and you are getting great results in good light. I do wonder if there is a pattern here ...... see new thread.

12-23-2009, 08:31 PM	#28
jacksonpritt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 124	Why limit yourself to a $200 lens for the Pentax when you're thinking about getting VR lenses for the Nikon? I think you'll find that decent Nikon lenses with VR will cost a lot more than you think.

12-23-2009, 08:36 PM	#29
jacksonpritt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 124	Originally posted by moSIN I have many examples I can post but all are basically showing the same thing. I always try to focus on the near eye. The crops are pretty close to the centre. Another question - if I focus on the near eye but the lens is focusing on something else instead, isn't there something wrong with the lens then? The EXIF data for the following shot is: Shutter speed: 1/160sec Exposure Program: Manual F-Stop: f/4.5 Aperture Value: f/4.4 ISO speed ratings: 400 Focal Length: 40 mm The face was smack in the middle of the frame. So I focused on the eyes then pressed the shutter button completely to take the shot without reframing in order to eliminate any user error. Still the same result. The file was saved as DNG in-camera. Opened in Adobe camera raw with default settings and then saved without modification as jpeg with high quality setting 8. Based on your attached images it looks like your camera is front-focusing when using your kit lens. If you look at her sweater, the texture of the sweater that is somewhat closer to the camera than her face looks nice and sharp, but her face is slightly out of focus. I suggest sending the camera & lens back to Pentax and requesting that they be calibrated.

12-23-2009, 08:53 PM	#30
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Originally posted by moSIN How do I share a picture with the EXIF intact? Or another question, is there a quick way to export EXIF data from somewhere? Will try the newspaper test tonight. Thanks. hmm... the EXIF data appears by default on my camera ( I only shoot JPEGs). Might be set to 'off' on your camera. Yes, I think the newspaper test will help to check if its a focus issue.