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01-22-2010, 12:59 PM   #166
Igilligan
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!

Lets put this in terms of my reality, (which is all that really matters )

I would have bought a DA 50-135 two years ago if not for the SDM issues. It is the perfect lens and focal range for me!

I would buy one tomorrow if they extended the Warranty to at least show good faith that they understand there is a perceived problem, real or not.

I will never buy one without the extended warranty of 5 or 6 years. I cant spend that kind of money to buy my main go to lens, with the risk it may fail from a known defect after the 1 year warranty is up.

Extending the warranty is the easiest and most public relations friendly thing they could do... But sitting on thier asses with their heads in the sand while all of these discussion continue to go on and on in the forum world is not bright and speaks volumes on the state of Pentax.

01-22-2010, 01:07 PM   #167
Damn Brit
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
There are also enough economically blessed Pentax users out there in the world without the foreknowledge we have here about DA* issues for there to be a steady influx of DA* sales and smooth out any perceived lower sale rates of the lenses. Pentax could even justify the lower sale numbers by the significantly lower number of high-end users buying into Pentax. And there are *lots* of ways to analyse data, present it and formulate a conclusion about the issue.

So IMO, the statistics used to justify Pentax's stance on the SDM issue is about as useful as basing the prevalence of the common cold with the number of doctor visits for cold symptoms.
And every failure means the possibility of that individual shifting their economical blessings to another system which equates to loss of sales on non-SDM lenses. It doesn't matter what the true statistics are, SDM is perceived as being a big issue and is damaging to Pentax especially as they seem to be in denial.

Last edited by Damn Brit; 01-22-2010 at 01:18 PM.
01-22-2010, 02:03 PM   #168
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When I made a thread months ago asking something akin to "is it 'safe' to buy a DA* 16-50 now?" it didn't get much of any posts in that thread... Thanx for the "fyi" Peter. I'll still stay on the side-lines and use what lenses I have. Just reinforcing that maybe it'll only be a Sigma or Tammi 70-200/2.8 in my future.

Last edited by m8o; 01-22-2010 at 02:10 PM.
01-22-2010, 02:12 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
There are also enough economically blessed Pentax users out there in the world without the foreknowledge we have here about DA* issues for there to be a steady influx of DA* sales and smooth out any perceived lower sale rates of the lenses. Pentax could even justify the lower sale numbers by the significantly lower number of high-end users buying into Pentax. And there are *lots* of ways to analyse data, present it and formulate a conclusion about the issue.

So IMO, the statistics used to justify Pentax's stance on the SDM issue is about as useful as basing the prevalence of the common cold with the number of doctor visits for cold symptoms.
Ash,
I think this is quite perceptive. I hadn't thought of the analogy you make, but it makes a lot of sense to me. There are many people out there who are not necessarily photo or camera enthusiasts, but have the money to buy the best camera and lenses available. Based on something they read in a magazine or hear from someone else, they will buy into that brand. They have pretty low utilization of the camera, but the use them for family events, kids stuff, etc. They have problems like people are talking about here, but maybe they assume that they are using the camera wrong, etc. They end up going back to P&S or just switching brands. (I know people like this. I think they are quite common. Often the people who can afford cameras of the level of the k-7 with DA* lenses, don't know a thing about cameras). These situations never make it into Pentax repair data.

01-22-2010, 02:17 PM   #170
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Yes PP - hence my disinterest in the stats constantly referred to by Pentax reps that all is well.
reeftool's approach is shared by many others and this too won't appear on their stats.

m8o - you may as well go for the Tamron 17-50 if you're still concerned - you'd be waiting a while to find another like the 16-50. That said, I still don't regret getting my 16-50...
01-22-2010, 04:13 PM   #171
Damn Brit
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Yes PP - hence my disinterest in the stats constantly referred to by Pentax reps that all is well.
reeftool's approach is shared by many others and this too won't appear on their stats.

m8o - you may as well go for the Tamron 17-50 if you're still concerned - you'd be waiting a while to find another like the 16-50. That said, I still don't regret getting my 16-50...YET!
Fixed it for you Ash.
01-22-2010, 05:59 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
There is probably no way to quantify people who won't buy DA* lenses either because they have read of all the problems. I'm not quitting Pentax but I'm not going to purchase an SDM lens.
Well, let's start the count with me. The money I had saved towards a 16-50, I just spent on a tripod instead. I could have gone with another lens, but honestly, if I can't have the lens I want, I'll stick with what I have. Nothing against the Sigma or Tamron.
01-22-2010, 06:27 PM   #173
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Me too. Two days ago I chose the DA 16-45 over the DA*16-50 or the DA 17-70 because of the SDM issues, even though I have a DA*50-135 that is working fine and delivers astounding images. So far. And that's the problem: I no longer have confidence in Pentax's premium lenses, and I dislike their cavalier attitude.

01-22-2010, 08:29 PM   #174
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This comment from the Pentax rep baffles me - claiming SDM lenses have no more but perhaps less failures than non-SDM lenses... how about comparing the failure rates of their top of the line zooms to their non-DA*zooms?

Considering what we're paying for, I would expect the DA* zooms to be a heck of a lot better in reliability, build, and stability than the non-DA* zooms.

If Pentax truly believes that their DA* zooms are so reliable, then increase the warranty. I got 3 years on my K20D... why can't I get that on the top of the line lenses that cost more than my camera did?
01-22-2010, 09:01 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Sold the DA16-45mm to buy this thing. I'm buying another one next week.
Hurry! Scuttlebutt has it that the 16 - 45 is out of production. I found the last one by chance at our local shop and scooped it up.
01-23-2010, 08:03 AM   #176
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I have pretty much decided on getting the Sigma 17-70 this year with my tax refund over the Pentax, mainly due to the SDM problems. It's a good walk around size for me. I have a Nikkor 24-70 for my old Nikon Pronea 6i (APS film camera) and I miss not having that 55-70 size range. An extended warranty and an announced fix for SDM lenses may get me to change my mind for future purchases.
01-23-2010, 12:56 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
An extended warranty and an announced fix for SDM lenses may get me to change my mind for future purchases.
This would also have an extra benefit of not only showing confidence in the product but it would send a message that Hoya has confidence in Pentax, that could be huge.
01-23-2010, 02:22 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Fixed it for you Ash.
I can always count on you to bring a touch of cynicism to a good thing, Gary. especially when it's against the odds.
01-23-2010, 02:32 PM   #179
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Well the first response from the rep I messaged brings her own personal spin to things as well:

I personally own and use a 16-50, 55, and 50-135 in professional shooting situations. I got all of my lenses basically the day they came out.

I never had any issues with the 50-135 or the 55. My original 16-50 was one of the first run ones that had some reliability issues, but I got another one and have never had an issue since then. I think it is pretty well known that the some of the very early 16-50s had issues, but those were sorted out quickly.

I do not think the 50-135 or 55 ever had any issues. Infact, the 50-135 is considered by many people at Pentax (myself included) to be one of the best zoom lenses ever built.

I certainly would be nice if the focus system was faster, but this is not a defect with the lenses.
The latest camera (K7) seems to work very well with them.

Additionally, now that the lenses have been out for a while, we have been able to do significant statical reporting on their warranty service history, rather than just going by our opinions or that of a few customers.

Pentax Imaging Company in the US has analyzed our sales and repair data. This information shows us that the warranty repair rate on all SDM lenses is at, or in most cases well below our normal return rate. Additionally, this takes into account all types of warranty repair. If we analyzed only repairs related to SDM failure, the repair rate would be well below our average, indicating there is not an issue with this system.


I did respond in kind a few times to get the previously quoted responses, but after all was said and done, she made it clear that "most of the people at Pentax are photographers, and they all want to see Pentax advance".

I can't see too many photographers being happy with SDM function and incidences of failure...
01-23-2010, 02:44 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Pentax Imaging Company in the US has analyzed our sales and repair data. This information shows us that the warranty repair rate on all SDM lenses is at, or in most cases well below our normal return rate. Additionally, this takes into account all types of warranty repair. If we analyzed only repairs related to SDM failure, the repair rate would be well below our average, indicating there is not an issue with this system.
I wonder what they set as their 'normal return rate'. If they set it as high enough, that may well be true.

Also if the failures occur mostly after the 1 year warranty period, then warranty returns isn't a good indicator for users, as lenses get used longer than that. It is a fine indicator for Pentax as their repair costs only kick in during the warranty period.

And last but not least, the data from these forums seem contrary to their statistics.
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