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02-07-2010, 06:39 PM   #16
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QUICK BUMP. Still looking for ideas on what lens to use!

02-07-2010, 09:15 PM   #17
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You want a lens with a registry distance greater than that of the Pentax lens, 45.46mm, the greater, the better. Here's a table showing registry distances:
Camera Mounts Sorted by Register

The registry distance is the expected distance from the back of the lens to the sensor plane.

Probably the easiest way to make a tilt lens starts with an m42-pentax-K adapter to mount on the camera. Find a rubber tube that fits tightly inside the m42-Pentax-K adapter (42mm, 1.6"); the other end of the rubber tube will be clamped over (or jammed into) the end of the long registry lens you've purchased. Cut the rubber tube so the lengths add up the the registry distance expected for the lens you purchased.

Bending the rubber tube will tilt/shift the lens.

Dave

PS or just buy a tilt adapter made for a specific type lens: I just ordered a precise tilt adapter for pentacon-six lenses to pentax K camera for $128USD delivered.

PPS here's a praktina mount 35mm lens for $27 delivered on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sears-35mm-F3-5-for-Praktina_W0QQitemZ330400788129QQcmdZ...item4ced6beea1

Last edited by newarts; 02-07-2010 at 09:30 PM.
02-08-2010, 07:04 AM   #18
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Based on your intended use for the lens you are likely to need somethng quite wide angle and so a relatively short focal length will be necesary. Also for a "minature effect" you will only need tilt movement - the shift shouldn't be necessary. This could make a big difference as if you set it up right you may get away with a lens with quite a small coverage.
My brother was playing with a home made tilt shift lens which he made from a 24mm focal length 35mm lens. This has enough coverage to allow a few mm of shift on an APSC sensor and enough tilt or what you are doing. By stripping the lens right back to just the optical essembly he managed to get enough clearance to allow for the mevements and still acheive infinity focus.
If you were to try something like a 28mm lens you may be able to do something like this. As you will only end out using the optical essembly the original mount is not important but you really want something with as long a registartion as possible, scertainly not shorter than pentax. If you start from a K mount lens then you could re-use the mount as well, otherwise use a flanged M42-K mount adapter as newarts suggests.
02-09-2010, 04:08 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
You want a lens with a registry distance greater than that of the Pentax lens, 45.46mm, the greater, the better. Here's a table showing registry distances:
Camera Mounts Sorted by Register

The registry distance is the expected distance from the back of the lens to the sensor plane.

Probably the easiest way to make a tilt lens starts with an m42-pentax-K adapter to mount on the camera. Find a rubber tube that fits tightly inside the m42-Pentax-K adapter (42mm, 1.6"); the other end of the rubber tube will be clamped over (or jammed into) the end of the long registry lens you've purchased. Cut the rubber tube so the lengths add up the the registry distance expected for the lens you purchased.

Bending the rubber tube will tilt/shift the lens.

Dave

PS or just buy a tilt adapter made for a specific type lens: I just ordered a precise tilt adapter for pentacon-six lenses to pentax K camera for $128USD delivered.

PPS here's a praktina mount 35mm lens for $27 delivered on eBay
Sears 35mm F3.5 for Praktina - eBay (item 330400788129 end time Mar-02-10 20:16:39 PST)
First of all, THANKS A LOT for the very informed reply. The M42-K Adapter seems to be the most popular suggestion, so I'll definitely go for one of those. And I've been looking on eBay, and almost all the lenses I see that have a high registry distance seem to be expensive.

If I were to buy a tilt adapter, then I'd also have to buy a lens. That's getting out of my price range, as this is just a really low budget thing for school.

And that Praktina seems like a good buy, but it only gives me 5mm to work with..? Will that be fine?

QuoteOriginally posted by MattGunn Quote
Based on your intended use for the lens you are likely to need somethng quite wide angle and so a relatively short focal length will be necesary. Also for a "minature effect" you will only need tilt movement - the shift shouldn't be necessary. This could make a big difference as if you set it up right you may get away with a lens with quite a small coverage.
My brother was playing with a home made tilt shift lens which he made from a 24mm focal length 35mm lens. This has enough coverage to allow a few mm of shift on an APSC sensor and enough tilt or what you are doing. By stripping the lens right back to just the optical essembly he managed to get enough clearance to allow for the mevements and still acheive infinity focus.
If you were to try something like a 28mm lens you may be able to do something like this. As you will only end out using the optical essembly the original mount is not important but you really want something with as long a registartion as possible, scertainly not shorter than pentax. If you start from a K mount lens then you could re-use the mount as well, otherwise use a flanged M42-K mount adapter as newarts suggests.
Thanks A LOT Matt, for the reply again. I'm looking for a wide angle, fast lens for cheap. A lot to ask for, haha. Thanks for letting me know I only need tilt-- this will help a lot. For your brothers lens, did he just take apart the lens until he had what he needed? And how exactly did he do that? What did he use for the tilt? Sorry for asking a lot of questions. I'm looking on eBay for all the brands you listed, they seem to be pretty expensive. And I'm already looking for a M42-K adapter, why the flange? I heard the flanged ones are cheaper, is that the reason?

Thanks again, to everyone!

02-09-2010, 05:15 PM   #20
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QuoteQuote:
If I were to buy a tilt adapter, then I'd also have to buy a lens. That's getting out of my price range, as this is just a really low budget thing for school.
I think a high quality system can be assembled from a good tilt adaper and MF lens for about $200US total.

QuoteQuote:
And that Praktina seems like a good buy, but it only gives me 5mm to work with..? Will that be fine?
5mm isn't much, but with care I'll bet a tilt of at least 5 degrees can be put together;
1) get a flange-type M42-K adapter (or steal the the flange off a broken type K lens)
2) Get the Praktina lens, tilt it with repect to the K-mount adapter and epoxy it in place.

That will give you a focusable lens with a built-in tilt. It'll work fine for your movies as it won't be changing its tilt angle while you shoot.

As I see it, most DIY approaches using a lens with a long registry distance and a rubber tube will be very hard to focus and handle for movies. Getting a still shot maybe won't be too bad, but movies will be very difficult if the lens can't be held rigidly in position.

Can you tell me more about the constraints you have for a movie? Do you need a lens with variable aperture, focusing distance, and tilt angle, or can one or more of those parameters be fixed?
02-10-2010, 09:24 AM   #21
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Another approach is to fake it with software.

Or fake it with a mostly greased window (just leave an un-greased area in the center of a UV filter maybe?)
02-10-2010, 11:45 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shub Quote
Thanks A LOT Matt, for the reply again. I'm looking for a wide angle, fast lens for cheap. A lot to ask for, haha. Thanks for letting me know I only need tilt-- this will help a lot. For your brothers lens, did he just take apart the lens until he had what he needed? And how exactly did he do that? What did he use for the tilt? Sorry for asking a lot of questions. I'm looking on eBay for all the brands you listed, they seem to be pretty expensive. And I'm already looking for a M42-K adapter, why the flange? I heard the flanged ones are cheaper, is that the reason?

Thanks again, to everyone!
I haven't seen my brothers lens yet. However I gather that he stripped it right back to the optical assembly - all of the case, focus helix, aperture mechanism etc has gone. I think he used some kind of black corrugated tube to go between the lens and the camera. The focus and tilt had to be adjusted and held manually as with a lensbaby but the suggestion of using a leg from a gorillapod would help here. I don't think the aperture can be set easily, at least not to a known f number.
The flanged adapters are generally the cheapest and the flange gives you something to attach things to. I have used several of them for lens conversion projects.
You may have found these already but if not they may give you some more ideas :
Build a Tilt-Shift Camera Lens for Peanuts | CreativePro.com
The Plunger Baby - Zenza Bronica 75mm lens + toilet plunger = DIY tilt-shift lens on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
My homemade tilt-shift lens on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Make: Online : Weekend Project: Tilt-Shift Photography
I had planned to try something similar but I got a lensbaby at a bargain price and then obtaind and converted the Ilford Monobar so never went ahead.
02-13-2010, 03:55 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
I think a high quality system can be assembled from a good tilt adaper and MF lens for about $200US total.


5mm isn't much, but with care I'll bet a tilt of at least 5 degrees can be put together;
1) get a flange-type M42-K adapter (or steal the the flange off a broken type K lens)
2) Get the Praktina lens, tilt it with repect to the K-mount adapter and epoxy it in place.

That will give you a focusable lens with a built-in tilt. It'll work fine for your movies as it won't be changing its tilt angle while you shoot.

As I see it, most DIY approaches using a lens with a long registry distance and a rubber tube will be very hard to focus and handle for movies. Getting a still shot maybe won't be too bad, but movies will be very difficult if the lens can't be held rigidly in position.

Can you tell me more about the constraints you have for a movie? Do you need a lens with variable aperture, focusing distance, and tilt angle, or can one or more of those parameters be fixed?
If I epoxy it in place, will I be able to move it later?

And probably will need variable aperture, tilt angle, and if needed the focusing distance can be fixed.

QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
Another approach is to fake it with software.

Or fake it with a mostly greased window (just leave an un-greased area in the center of a UV filter maybe?)
The greased part might work, no idea how it will look though. Probably would be using a cheap filter, don't want grease on my lens!
And I'm not sure it's possible to fake video with software. I have seen it done with pictures though.

QuoteOriginally posted by MattGunn Quote
I haven't seen my brothers lens yet. However I gather that he stripped it right back to the optical assembly - all of the case, focus helix, aperture mechanism etc has gone. I think he used some kind of black corrugated tube to go between the lens and the camera. The focus and tilt had to be adjusted and held manually as with a lensbaby but the suggestion of using a leg from a gorillapod would help here. I don't think the aperture can be set easily, at least not to a known f number.
The flanged adapters are generally the cheapest and the flange gives you something to attach things to. I have used several of them for lens conversion projects.
You may have found these already but if not they may give you some more ideas :
Build a Tilt-Shift Camera Lens for Peanuts | CreativePro.com
The Plunger Baby - Zenza Bronica 75mm lens + toilet plunger = DIY tilt-shift lens on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
My homemade tilt-shift lens on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Make: Online : Weekend Project: Tilt-Shift Photography
I had planned to try something similar but I got a lensbaby at a bargain price and then obtaind and converted the Ilford Monobar so never went ahead.
That sounds interesting, and thanks for the links. Some of them were old and some were new to me.
And nice, where did you get the lensbaby from?

You should make a tilt shift again

03-26-2010, 10:17 AM   #24
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I ran into this on fleabay and remembered this tread. If this thing were tilt, I'd give it a try.

Loreo Lens in Cap 35mm Perspective Control for Pentax - eBay (item 140328684247 end time Apr-18-10 01:37:12 PDT)

Its hard to get more budget than $30 shipped.
03-26-2010, 10:23 AM   #25
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I've always loved the tilt look and completely understand what's going on. Never understood shifting though - does it somehow have more of an optical effect that moving the camera above your head?
03-26-2010, 10:30 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
I've always loved the tilt look and completely understand what's going on. Never understood shifting though - does it somehow have more of an optical effect that moving the camera above your head?
Part of the reason for the shift is for perspective control like when you are at the base of a building with a wide angle, it allows to correct to eliminate the "leaning" appearance.
03-26-2010, 10:55 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I ran into this on fleabay and remembered this tread. If this thing were tilt, I'd give it a try.

Loreo Lens in Cap 35mm Perspective Control for Pentax - eBay (item 140328684247 end time Apr-18-10 01:37:12 PDT)

Its hard to get more budget than $30 shipped.
There's a reason it's US$30 new. I have one. It sucks. Mightily. I'm holding the little [expletive deleted] right now. You get two f-stops, f/11 and f/22. The lens isn't as bad as the famous Optical Lens on a Holga only because it's much smaller. The perspective shift is barely noticeable. Oh, did I mention that it sucks? It does.
03-26-2010, 11:26 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
There's a reason it's US$30 new. I have one. It sucks. Mightily. I'm holding the little [expletive deleted] right now. You get two f-stops, f/11 and f/22. The lens isn't as bad as the famous Optical Lens on a Holga only because it's much smaller. The perspective shift is barely noticeable. Oh, did I mention that it sucks? It does.
Don't hold back, tell us what you think about. Hysterical
03-26-2010, 11:41 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Part of the reason for the shift is for perspective control like when you are at the base of a building with a wide angle, it allows to correct to eliminate the "leaning" appearance.
But that's the same as tilting the whole camera the same amount (to be parallel with the ground or whatnot) and raising it above your head and using live-view, is it not?

The only advantage is you still get to look through the VF?
03-26-2010, 12:13 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
But that's the same as tilting the whole camera the same amount (to be parallel with the ground or whatnot) and raising it above your head and using live-view, is it not?

The only advantage is you still get to look through the VF?
Sort of of but not really. You are limited because you are also moving the sensor/film plane whereas with the shift, only the lens is shifted. This kind of movement is one of the reason field cameras were and still are used. Those large format cameras have "rise & fall" and "left and right shift" but these are both referred to as shift in 35mm and these are accomplished by the lens in 35mm and by the bellows etc in the LF. Its the rise and fall that actually helps with perspective control the most the left-right has more to do with controlling reflections.

Similarly, the tilting f the lens is called that on 35mm and on LF it is called "swing" for left and right and "tilt" for up and down. This changes the focal plane.
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