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01-22-2010, 01:52 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
I was referring to the 35/1.8 for $200 which reviews almost identically to the Pentax 35/2. The stars for optical quality and build are the same from Klaus.
The distortion values are pretty extreme. It also vignettes a bit more. The sharpness is lower than the FA35, but not by a whole lot.
I guess for some, $300 vs. $200 with some improvements is not worth it. The latest influx shows this as well.

I think Pentax would do well to release cheaper prime lenses DA-L style. Wide apertures, but less control of distortion, vignetting, etc. that most people do not notice anyway. Sadly, I am only partially joking.

D.

01-22-2010, 02:06 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Wow... I absolutely agree. I used to buy lots of lenses here. But since this marketplace was opened up to resellers it has become a Greed Festival...

I seldom even look at the marketplace anymore.
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Are you sure it's not because you have too many lenses?

Haha.... you may be right about that!

But $400 for a used FA 35... New, it was good lens at an ok price at $300...

I am reminded of the clown who had a Cosina 55 1.2 that he put up here for $400 or something like that... the going price at the time was $240 maybe... he posted his price, lowered it once and then sold it to someone who made him an offer, in a pm he had told me to make him an offer and he would let me know.... (who knows what price he sold it for) but after that everyone raised their price on the Cosina!

RESELLERS SUCK... they are in it for profit and they drive up the prices in this marketplace. For the first time ever, this market has ebay prices = overpriced lenses... ummhh I wonder what is the same between this market now, and ebay? Oh yeah -resellers! Money changers... Greed Merchants haha

I have a Helios 44-2 I am gonna put up for sale... $300 - you can private message me if you want to bid a little lower, I will let you know if you won... that is the game my friends. Resellers know no rules!

Other than that I think the FA 35 is a great lens. And I would buy a used one tomorrow for $275




QuoteOriginally posted by matiki Quote
Wait... are you saying you can have too many lenses?
I have been to Gary's house... I have seen his lenses. He may be sayin' it...
01-22-2010, 02:14 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Diffusion Quote
The distortion values are pretty extreme. It also vignettes a bit more. The sharpness is lower than the FA35, but not by a whole lot.
I guess for some, $300 vs. $200 with some improvements is not worth it. The latest influx shows this as well.
The 35/2 is nudging $400 used, let alone new.

You cannot compare sharpness across mounts, the 10D has anotoriously weak AA filter so it flatters a little .... hence Klas' warnings not to compare across mounts.
01-22-2010, 02:30 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
I was referring to the 35/1.8 for $200 which reviews almost identically to the Pentax 35/2. The stars for optical quality and build are the same from Klaus.
  • Apples-to-Apples...The 35/1.8 is a DX, reduced format lens. Better to compare to the design competition regardless of the target body.
  • As for pure performance numbers...distortion, vignette, MTF, CA...close, but no cigar
  • The core of the positive review by Klaus was the price point as compared to the performance

Whether the FA 35/2 is worth twice as much is open to debate. But to suggest that it is overpriced because there is a less capable optic at a much lower price is somewhat humorous. What does that say about the FA 31/1.8 Limited?

What also brings a grin to my face (comparing apples to kumquats) is that the Nikkor 35/1.8 is only marginally better than the Pentax-DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens at 35mm and comparable apertures. The kit is less than 1/2 the price of the Nikkor with the only clear advantage being maximum aperture.

In good humor...

Steve

01-22-2010, 02:36 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I am reminded of the clown who had a Cosina 55 1.2 that he put up here for $400 or something like that... the going price at the time was $240 maybe... he posted his price, lowered it once and then sold it to someone who made him an offer, in a pm he had told me to make him an offer and he would let me know.... (who knows what price he sold it for) but after that everyone raised their price on the Cosina!
I'm not sure why you call him a clown. Clowns generally don't laugh on their way to the bank.

The fair price of anything is what people would pay for it in a free, competitive market.

If they can sell their Cosina 55 1.2-s for $380 then that's the price. If they cannot then in time the price will go down. Of course given some of these lenses are rare and collectibles the prices are somewhat arbitrary.

And of course it sucks if people with more money pump up the prices for people with less money. That is also happening, say, with housing where single parents are being priced out by two-income childless families, which is a bit more serious than lenses. But I disgress.

I hate lens prices going up more than most here, as I hadn't acted fast enough to buy any at all, but I know what my choice is. To buy them for what they cost now, or to go without them.
01-22-2010, 02:39 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by matiki Quote
Wait... are you saying you can have too many lenses?
I've come to the decision that I have. I hate sensor dust which means
I have to have a camera for every lens. Now I no longer have a camera bag, I have to have a pick-up truck.

The lenses I don't have a camera for, I lend to Gus.
01-22-2010, 02:49 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
The 35/2 is nudging $400 used, let alone new...
So some buyer is a fool? It is a good lens, but hardly a cult classic! Reminds me of the eBay listings for "rare" Helios 44M-6 at > $150 BIN!

New list in North America is $475 USD with full warranty including hood and case. The price is lower in Asia where you can walk into a brick-and-mortar store and buy it on the show room. If you need a prime in that focal length, good corner sharpness, FF coverage, and the max aperture it is about the only game in town in Pentax mount short of the FA 31. Compared to its stablemate, the FA 35 is the value queen even at its current price.

People can complain that it used to be cheaper and that Pentax should have a lower performance lens in the $200 price range similar to the Nikon product. That is fine, I guess. But to say that it is overpriced plainly ignores how little you get for under $300 regardless of brand. The rotten shame is the current limited distribution. If available through other outlets, you would expect that the street price for the FA 35 would be about $350 USD.

Steve
01-22-2010, 02:54 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
I'm not sure why you call him a clown. Clowns generally don't laugh on their way to the bank.

The fair price of anything is what people would pay for it in a free, competitive market.

If they can sell their Cosina 55 1.2-s for $380 then that's the price. If they cannot then in time the price will go down. Of course given some of these lenses are rare and collectibles the prices are somewhat arbitrary.

And of course it sucks if people with more money pump up the prices for people with less money. That is also happening, say, with housing where single parents are being priced out by two-income childless families, which is a bit more serious than lenses. But I disgress.

I hate lens prices going up more than most here, as I hadn't acted fast enough to buy any at all, but I know what my choice is. To buy them for what they cost now, or to go without them.
No... this was one of the Sad Faced clowns, with the upside down frown... even though he was laughing all the way to the bank... he still looked sad.

The point of my clown story was not the free market did not work, but the "free" market could not work. It did not know what was paid for the lens, because it became a Private message bidding war. Since there was no final price reflected for all to see, all that anyone saw was the HIgh asking price. That then became a price indicator helping set the new 'free' market price when the thread was marked 'Sold'. Even the corrupt ebay bidding system shows what the final price was in their bidding wars.

A free market needs information/prices to adjust itself freely... there will always be rich folks who can pay anything for a lens... but a 'free' market price is not detirmined by what a few rich folks can pay... never has been, never will. Almost every company would go out of business if they priced their products only for the top 5% of the economic ladder.

The market place resellers are always attempting to push prices higher... that is the nature of a 'for profit' reseller.

This market for the most part a year ago was "hey I tried this lens but it did not work for my shooting, anyone want to buy it?" maybe we took a little loss on it. No big deal, somebody else got a chance to try it to see if it worked for them.
Now it is about, hey the last FA 35 sold for 400, I will ask 450... It is a very different place now IMHO.

That is why I dont shop much anymore. They can take their paypal fees and shove em'!


Last edited by Igilligan; 01-22-2010 at 03:03 PM.
01-22-2010, 03:27 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if ever Pentax releases a new one or a DA version, don't expect it to cost around that $300 plateau but see it seling around for $650 or more. now question is, are you willing to spend on a new $650 30+mm DA lens?
Honest answer: If the new lens was otherwise identical to the existing FA 35mm f/2.0 - only converted to DA - then no. If it was something like an f/1.4 (maybe even f/1.8) with 9 blades and metal construction (maybe even composite), then I might.

But given the current price for the DA 40mm f/2.8 Limited, I can't imagine a DA version of the FA 35 lens should cost much more. But then, I can't reconcile what the actual FA 35 is going for now.

Last edited by Biro; 01-22-2010 at 03:32 PM.
01-22-2010, 03:28 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
That then became a price indicator helping set the new 'free' market price when the thread was marked 'Sold'.
I see your point and I agree it is unfortunate the final price wasn't shown. However, I don't think running a closed auction is technically a violation of 'free market' principles. That's semantics though.

QuoteQuote:
Almost every company would go out of business if they priced their products only for the top 5% of the economic ladder.
I agree, however there are many who price it that way (Leica in the camera business is an example). Just because it won't work for most companies doesn't mean it cannot work for some.

QuoteQuote:
The market place resellers are always attempting to push prices higher... that is the nature of a 'for profit' reseller.
Well, but it is their lenses to sell and thus their prices to set. If they sell them for the higher prices, they profit. If they don't, they lose money.

It's like that with most products with a slim supply (and some with an abundant supply, like diamonds).

From some perspective I agree with your statement that 'resellers suck' but I don't see any solutions except not buying if it is too expensive and perhaps requiring the final price to be disclosed in the Marketplace (???).
01-22-2010, 03:39 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
But given the current price for the DA 40mm f/2.8 Limited, I can't imagine a DA version of the FA 35 lens should cost much more. But then, I can't reconcile what the actual FA 35 is going for now.
actually, it is not that difficult to understand. first, there is a 5mm difference, and second, it's 1 stop faster. for some people, that extra speed is necessary, useful and advantageous. I did try out both lenses and I love how the DA40 is. but my needs kept me going back to the 35mm focal length and f2 speed. it might not be useful to you for now, but once you get to that point, you would wish you have had it.

since some people are hesitant to buy the FA35 for it's current market price, I'm just wondering why don't they get the FA28/2.8 which is much more cheaper instead ?

question now is, what is the difference between the FA28 and FA35, that makes the latter more appealing?
01-22-2010, 03:46 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Honest answer: If the new lens was otherwise identical to the existing FA 35mm f/2.0 - only converted to DA - then no. If it was something like an f/1.4 (maybe even f/1.8) with 9 blades and metal construction (maybe even composite), then I might.
from this we can conclude that the price of the FA35 is just within the acceptable range.
01-22-2010, 04:01 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
from this we can conclude that the price of the FA35 is just within the acceptable range.
Well, like I say... $300 for new or like-new. At least as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not seeing prices like that these days. More like $400 to $450 for like-new and, of course, $475 for new from Pentax.

But here's a thought... if Pentax actually did a DA version of the current lens with no other upgrades...and assuming the lens would be readily available, mightn't the market price actually be brought down to about $300 simply because of ready availability?

QuoteQuote:
since some people are hesitant to buy the FA35 for it's current market price, I'm just wondering why don't they get the FA28/2.8 which is much more cheaper instead ?
For the same reason you like the FA35... that extra stop. Otherwise, I'd buy the DA 35mm f/2.8 macro Limited, which is not that much more expensive than a new FA 35 right now... and the DA Limited seems to have some pixie dust.

Honestly, if there's no relief from Pentax on this point soon, perhaps the DA 35 Limited combined with a K-x will be the way to go.
01-22-2010, 04:25 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Well, like I say... $300 for new or like-new. At least as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not seeing prices like that these days. More like $400 to $450 for like-new and, of course, $475 for new from Pentax.

But here's a thought... if Pentax actually did a DA version of the current lens with no other upgrades...and assuming the lens would be readily available, mightn't the market price actually be brought down to about $300 simply because of ready availability?



For the same reason you like the FA35... that extra stop. Otherwise, I'd buy the DA 35mm f/2.8 macro Limited, which is not that much more expensive than a new FA 35 right now... and the DA Limited seems to have some pixie dust.

Honestly, if there's no relief from Pentax on this point soon, perhaps the DA 35 Limited combined with a K-x will be the way to go.
if Pentax decided to resume production and a DA conversion, then it is possible that the price will go down. as I said, the FA35 is the cheapest alternative among the 3 30mm lenses right now at 350-400. and since it is discontinued, there is no way that it can only get cheaper, even in the used market.

the DA35 is a stop slower. also it is not ideal for your casual walk-around shoot due to it's longer focus throw. if they made it a non-macro, it would had fallen in the same price category as that of the FA35 or less because it's an f2.8.

my feeling on this one is that Pentax would not make another 30mm lens since it is pretty much covered from 31-35-40. and thus adding more to the fray would make it quite chaotic already.

a more sensible option is to replace the discontinued FA28 and build a new FA28/1.9 or f2 since Pentax lacks something in that focal range.
01-22-2010, 04:26 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote

This market for the most part a year ago was "hey I tried this lens but it did not work for my shooting, anyone want to buy it?" maybe we took a little loss on it. No big deal, somebody else got a chance to try it to see if it worked for them.
Now it is about, hey the last FA 35 sold for 400, I will ask 450... It is a very different place now IMHO.
Couldn't have said it better Igilligan.....
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