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02-10-2010, 12:48 AM   #1
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Riddle me this Batman...

Done with this thread thanks.


Last edited by MD Optofonik; 02-13-2010 at 08:15 AM.
02-10-2010, 12:55 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by MD Optofonik Quote
I just discovered that many of the Pentax lenses are considerably marked up, re-branded, Tokina lenses. Am I really expected to pony up $300.00 more for the 50-135mm f/2.8 Tokina lens with the word "Pentax" on it? Really?
The Tokina and Pentax have the same optical formula, but it hasn't been clear whether they come out of the same factory.

What is known is that the Tokina does not have weather sealing or SDM. The latter can be seen as good or bad.

Also, I don't think the coating on the Tokina glass is the same as the Pentax.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_wL0ZZi6k[/yt]

(at around 4:00, you can see how coating is applied)

Last edited by asdf; 02-11-2010 at 02:12 AM.
02-10-2010, 12:56 AM   #3
axl
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You see it in rather simple way.
First of all NO Pentax lenses are rebranded Tokinas. There are some that were jointly developed, as for who did what in that joint development, we can (or at least I can) only guess.
As you mention 50-135. I believe that Tokina version is not weather sealed and doesn't have SMD (thougn I don't know if that's good or bad ) If you think you can get comparable glass cheaper by jumping the ship... feel free
02-10-2010, 05:06 AM   #4
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This is a thread topic that appears periodically. 1) The majority of the lens formulas have patents that belong to Pentax and (apparently) are then licensed to Tokina to make for other mounts. Obviously in this situation Pentax will not allow Tokina to make cheaper versions of its own lenses for the K Mount. I think the DA 12-24 formula is owned by Tokina. 2) Pentax makes its own lenses. There is no rebranding here. Many of Pentax' lenses include weather sealing and internal motors that are not present on the Tokina versions. 3) Pentax is making its own lenses for its own cameras, whereas Tokina is making third party lenses for other company's cameras. Just as Tamron and Sigma have to sell at relatively cheaper prices, so too, Tokina does. On the other hand, when you own the camera brand, your lenses command a premium that the third parties do not command -- however good their lenses might be.

02-10-2010, 07:34 AM   #5
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FWIW

I know someone who has the 12-24 in nikon version.

While he paid less than what he would have paid for a nikon lens, it was more than the pentax version at the time.
02-10-2010, 09:15 AM   #6
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I haven't checked recently but the Tokina 10-17 fisheye was running almost $100 more than the Pentax.
02-10-2010, 10:00 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
Tokina version is not weather sealed and doesn't have SMD (thougn I don't know if that's good or bad )
This must be the new secret coating that Pentax had under wraps!
02-10-2010, 10:29 AM   #8
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The Tokina and Pentax lenses may share the same glass blanks and layout, but it is unclear to what extent the coatings are the same. Tokina even as a coating comparable to the Pentax SP but only They know if they are the same. However, Pentax DA lenses are assembled in Vietnam. There are barrel differences between the 2 as well. A good example of this would be to compare the DA 35mm ltd to the Tokina non-ltd version.

However, the Pentax lenses are NOT rebranded lenses with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions including out of production models. Quite hanging out with The Joker on DipRev.com.


Last edited by Blue; 02-10-2010 at 10:35 AM.
02-10-2010, 10:36 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by GerryL Quote
This must be the new secret coating that Pentax had under wraps!
Stuff of Mass Destruction
02-10-2010, 12:05 PM   #10
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Relax! There's nothing shady or corrupt or unethical going on here. While the Tokina and Pentax 50-135mm f/2.8s may share the same optical formula, there are significant differences between the two that make up that $300 - namely weather sealing, internal AF motor, and coatings. The Pentax is certainly not a re-branded Tokina in the same way that you may buy the store brand shampoo. And this is all moot anyway, as the Tokina isn't available in K-mount.

So if you're intent on moving to another manufacturer for being "duped" by this "nonsense", go ahead. Then report back and let us know how you feel about new bodies that won't support AF on certain new lenses.
02-10-2010, 01:14 PM   #11
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Wow.
You should take some time to educate yourself before putting your foot in your mouth.
As others have said, there was co-development between Tokina and Pentax on a few lenses.
This does not make Pentax lenses with a shared optical formula "rebadged" Tokinas.
If the lens bezel doesn't say Pentax on it, then the lens doesn't have Pentax SMC coatings (still the best in the business).

Now, if you don't think that Pentax SMC coatings are worth paying extra for, then the much more flare prone Tokina is a decent lens.

BTW, if this sort of thing really annoys you, steer clear of Nikon and Sony too.
02-10-2010, 11:57 PM   #12
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I feel neither embarrassed nor stupid so its safe to say my foot never came close to my mouth. As far as educating myself I don't consider it part of the normal purchasing process to seek out the patents (although I really do appreciate that someone did). I tend to spend weeks researching anything I will spend over $100.00 on. I am more educated than most on the gear in my bag, the editing software on my computer, the color management of my printers, the OS, the BIOS, and especially the hardware running it all (I built it). Heck, I think I still some info about darkroom chemistry rolling around up there somewhere (in the neurological equivalent of the kitchen drawer - you know the one).

Well alrighty then, asdf, Rondec, Lowell Goudge, Blue, reeftool, thanks for your insights. You lot have been very helpful and I feel a bit better about the gear I've toted for 16,470 miles around America. I know more about camera marketing than I ever wanted to know how much I needed to know. I have another question about essential prime lens focal lengths I'll pose in another thread at another time. Thanks again.

Last edited by MD Optofonik; 02-11-2010 at 12:05 AM.
02-11-2010, 12:56 AM   #13
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Same formula for a couple of lenses but for me not to be labelled rebadged

Give me Pentax glass anytime


cheers

Neil

Last edited by nulla; 02-11-2010 at 01:18 AM.
02-12-2010, 01:12 PM   #14
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That's a great video. Are those high end medical lenses? I can't imagine my $350.00 50mm taking six weeks to build or even being built by hand. Its nice to know, though, that somewhere out there are some lenses are still more or less hand made.

Mick
02-13-2010, 05:12 AM   #15
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Blanket statement about Pentax and Tokina lenses: False.

Jason
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