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02-12-2010, 02:38 AM   #1
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Jupiter 9 vs Samyang/Polar/et al

What are the major differences between these two portrait lenses?
Anyone have both and care to show some pics?
Is there a lens that won't break the bank that I should have instead in the fast 85 range?

02-12-2010, 02:40 AM   #2
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I came across this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/77390-jupiter-...-etc-85mm.html
But no photos to compare.
02-12-2010, 04:15 AM   #3
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Helios 40 when you are looking at similar pricing might be a better comparison, especially the aperture options being f1.4 vs f1.5 for the Helios.
The Jupiter 9 is a decent lens with heaps of blades for lovely boleh. I have no personal esperience of the Samyang 85 but then I'm a sucker for older lenses.
02-12-2010, 07:08 AM   #4
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I have a vivitar (samyang/bower/rokonon etc...) 85mm F1.4 and a super takumar 85mm F1.9 can't answer about the jupiter 9

the super tak has a hexagonal aperture, the vivitar has an octagonal aperture and this will impact bokeh somewhat

aside from the obvious speed increase for the vivitar, there is one other HUGE advantage for the vivitar and it's brothers, it comes in KA mount.

That means all exposure modes are functional and you can use P-TTL flash.

for the jupiter 9 and other K mount lenses, or for M42 lenses you are limited to using the *istD and DS with TTL flash capability, or use auto more using a flash like the AF540FGZ which has its own sensor, if you want to do flash photography.

Clearly for a portrait lens, I think having much better flash options put the vivitar and its brothers in a separate class.

Image wise, I have found the vivitar a great surprise, with good sharpness even wide open and very little CA.

the takumar is also an excellent lens, and while there is some CA most of it is longitudinal. which gives a green hue around objects behind the focus and a purple hue around objects in front of the focus plane.

02-12-2010, 11:10 AM   #5
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It would be an interesting comparison, but as Lowell points out, there is a huge difference in usability. I don't have the Samyang, but I do own both the J-9 and Pentax-FA 77/1.8 Limited. Even factoring out AF, the FA 77 is much easier to use for many types of shooting. It all depends on whether you are shooting at other than maximum aperture. (The manual stop-down after focusing with the J-9 is a drag.)

Even so, there is more to a lens than ease of use. That is why the J-9 is still in my bag and sees about as much use as the FA 77. Both have a magical aura, but in entirely different ways.

Steve

BTW...Aside from the convenience of the A contacts on the Samyang, there is another distinct advantage. Stop-down metering with the J-9 is inaccurate by as much as 2 stops at f/2 - f/4. Oh, the joys of stop-down metering on our modern cameras...
02-12-2010, 11:41 AM   #6
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I'm used to the stop-down metering at this point. I have a couple of 50's that I have to stop down. The Super Tak 1.4, when I'm using it wide open I usually click the green button and then automatically click the wheel up 3 stops. That usually does the trick.
02-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #7
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The other obvious candidate to consider is the M85/2, which based on my own prioritization of the relevant factors (IQ, cost, size, weight, speed, availability) would be my choice if I were in the market for an 85mm lens. But none of them is *so* much cheaper than the DA70 when you can catch a sale on the latter to make me in that big a hurry to choose an 85mm lens instead for portrait use - assuming of course we're talking about APS-C.
02-12-2010, 12:05 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
BTW...Aside from the convenience of the A contacts on the Samyang, there is another distinct advantage. Stop-down metering with the J-9 is inaccurate by as much as 2 stops at f/2 - f/4. Oh, the joys of stop-down metering on our modern cameras...
I note you have a K10D, which is about the worst body to use in manual metering due to the focusing screen). I find it meters significantly better with a split image screen, although still not perfect. but that is a big plus for the samyang et.al. 85mmF1,4 the metering.


It really comes down to situations, some lenses have unique desing such as the bokeh of the J9 which owners have reported they love about the lens.

I like the 85 F1.4 but don't have a 77 to compare it against. I also find the super tak a nice lens to use, and not just for portraits

02-12-2010, 12:18 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
The other obvious candidate to consider is the M85/2, which based on my own prioritization of the relevant factors (IQ, cost, size, weight, speed, availability) would be my choice if I were in the market for an 85mm lens. But none of them is *so* much cheaper than the DA70 when you can catch a sale on the latter to make me in that big a hurry to choose an 85mm lens instead for portrait use - assuming of course we're talking about APS-C.
you don't find the F2.4 maximum aperture of the '70 limiting creatively?

I won't discuss ASP-C because you have pulled the only non Full Frame lens out of the hat on this thread
02-12-2010, 12:34 PM   #10
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If you are looking for a reasonably fast (f2.8 or maybe faster) you might want to consider polishing up your hacking skills and nodding a medium format lens to fit. That's what I'm working on, in my case it's the Mamiya 80mm f1.9.
02-12-2010, 01:10 PM   #11
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I've got the j9, and while KA mount would be awesome, the price difference between the samyang and the j9 wasnt so awesome

i love it! flares horribly in bright light though. I have a hood on the way to try and help out with that
02-12-2010, 06:40 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I note you have a K10D, which is about the worst body to use in manual metering due to the focusing screen). I find it meters significantly better with a split image screen, although still not perfect. but that is a big plus for the samyang et.al. 85mmF1,4 the metering.
Yes, I have the K10D. The K20D and KxxxD models are supposed to suffer from the same issues since they all use the same focus screen, though behavior on the penta-mirror models is somewhat different. Glad to hear that your split image screen improved things for you. My Katzeye, unfortunately, behaves essentially the same as the stock screen when it comes to stop-down metering.

Things are looking up, though. I was able to run off a simple stop-down exposure series with the K-7 with my M50/1.7 and found it to be quite an improvement with only about 1/2 stop of underexposure at f/1.7. I don't know about the K-m and K-x.

Steve
02-12-2010, 06:57 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yes, I have the K10D. The K20D and KxxxD models are supposed to suffer from the same issues since they all use the same focus screen, though behavior on the penta-mirror models is somewhat different. Glad to hear that your split image screen improved things for you. My Katzeye, unfortunately, behaves essentially the same as the stock screen when it comes to stop-down metering.

Things are looking up, though. I was able to run off a simple stop-down exposure series with the K-7 with my M50/1.7 and found it to be quite an improvement with only about 1/2 stop of underexposure at f/1.7. I don't know about the K-m and K-x.

Steve
actually, the best metering DSLR I have is the *istD and the K10 metering can be modified by putting an *istD screen into it and the metering will match exactly the *istD.

the K7 is not bad, where wide apertures are corrected, but small apertures still have a problem but is about half way between K10D and *istD

I presently use a JinFinance split image in the K10D and while spot metering is worse (due to the darkening of the split image) average metering is reduced

the following has been posted previously

02-12-2010, 09:51 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
you don't find the F2.4 maximum aperture of the '70 limiting creatively?
I don't, no. On the extremely rare occasions when I want shallower DOF than f/2.4 already gives me at 70mm at portrait distances, I can always use my A50/1.7. But I'm just not that into creating those sorts of effects. I like shallow DOF for subject isolation, sure, but I generally want the whole face in focus in a portrait. If I were doing the sort of photography where that wasn't true, then maybe it would be an issue.
02-12-2010, 09:54 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The K20D and KxxxD models are supposed to suffer from the same issues since they all use the same focus screen, though behavior on the penta-mirror models is somewhat different.
I ran a complete series of tests with my M135/3.5 on my K200D, and found exposures completely consistent (within a quarter stop) at all apertures. So while it might be the same screen (wasn't aware of that - are you sure that's true?) something about the light path - whether the pentamirror or whatever - seems to render the K200D immune to this.
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