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02-16-2010, 03:05 PM   #1
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Compare the lens coating of Takumar-F 70-210mm and smc Pentax-F 70-210mm

People believe that a Takumar-F 70-210mm F4-5.6 is a non-smc version of Pentax-F 70-210mm F4-5.6.

I have owned a Takumar-F for years and have being waiting for chance to get a smc version. Eventually, I got a smc-ed one from local craigslist days ago at a very good price. I put these 2 lenses side-by-side and tried to figure out the coating difference by the reflection and this is what I got:

1.Left one is the smc version



2.Right one is the smc version



3. Left one is the smc version



4. Right one is the smc version



I could hardly tell which one is the smc-ed one by comparing the colorful reflection. I even added other smc-ed lenses in and tried to figure out any clue but still failed to get any conclusion.

Is this a wrong way to judge the smc coating? Is it possible both of these lenses are all smc coated?

Thanks for your input in advance.


Last edited by jcdog2006; 02-16-2010 at 04:27 PM.
02-16-2010, 03:36 PM   #2
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There were at least 2 versions of that Takumar F lens and one Pentax-F and non of them were SMC coated according to Dimitrov hence they may have the same non-SMC coatings. These have 10 elements in 8 groups.

Pentax Zoom Lenses without SMC Coating


This Pentax SMC F 70-210mm ED lens on the other hand was a different lens all together. It had 13 elements in 9 groups. It also had some ED elements in it.

http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/zooms/long/F70-210f4-5.6.html


So are you showing the Pentax F lens or the Pentax SMC F? It would help is you showed a pic of the sides of both lenses.

Last edited by Blue; 02-16-2010 at 03:41 PM.
02-16-2010, 03:48 PM   #3
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Blue, thaks for your input and sorry for making you confused. I'm actually comparing the Takumar-F with the smc Pentax-F version.

Here is the side view of these 2 lenses.

02-17-2010, 04:55 AM   #4
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I have the smc version and the reflection i get (when a low wattage tungstan lamp is above) is green, pink and yellow image of the lamp. Maybe you can compare that to your copys. If the coatings are different shouldn't the colours be also?

02-17-2010, 09:33 AM   #5
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keep in mind that the SMC version of that lens is optically different so its really not a version but a different design i.e. different number of elements and grouping plus the SMC includes ED elements. Even IF they have the same coatings, its really moot. I don't think color is a reliable way to tell the difference in the coatings anyway.
02-17-2010, 10:35 AM   #6
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What makes me more confused is when I extracted the EXIF information with some softwares to identify the lens ID, these 2 lenses were all identified as the same one. The lenses were identified as "F 70-210mm F4-5.6" with Pentax Digital Camera utility 4, and they were all identified as "smc PENTAX-F 70-210mm F4-5.6" with KUSO EXIF Viewer and Silkypix.
02-17-2010, 10:50 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdog2006 Quote
What makes me more confused is when I extracted the EXIF information with some softwares to identify the lens ID, these 2 lenses were all identified as the same one. The lenses were identified as "F 70-210mm F4-5.6" with Pentax Digital Camera utility 4, and they were all identified as "smc PENTAX-F 70-210mm F4-5.6" with KUSO EXIF Viewer and Silkypix.
I think that is because they are F series that they get identified that way in the EXIF. Keep in mind that the F series were the first series of auto focus lenses and were designed in the film era when digital was still 15 years out. Its not uncommon to get limited data in the EXIF for F series lenses.

Edit: I think Pentax did not think it through with their naming scheme for these lenses. The SMC lens as a good reputation but I bet it suffers due to the other one even though they are optically different because of the confusion.

Edit: Edit: This is a good thread btw to sort these lenses out! bigthumbsup
02-17-2010, 05:21 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
keep in mind that the SMC version of that lens is optically different so its really not a version but a different design i.e. different number of elements and grouping plus the SMC includes ED elements. Even IF they have the same coatings, its really moot. I don't think color is a reliable way to tell the difference in the coatings anyway.
I have looked at both my 50mm under the same light (F & A series) and they show different colourings with the identical optical construction. I am sure i read somewhere that the F series had a new SMC solution.
IF these 2 zoom lenses have the same coating, then something is wrong! I am yet to be convinced that the SMC F70-210 has different elements/ optical construction with ED glass and have identical weight. That site also states that version is dark grey and why don't we see ED on the name plate? Three versions are listed in the non-SMC list, Tak F70-210, Pen F70-200 & Tak F 70-200, all have the same contruction and funnily enough the same weight.
I feel that all these lenses are the same except maybe the SMC on one of them, which jcdog2006 may be able to answer.
It may also be possible for a dishonest person to make a non-SMC to look like a SMC version.

02-17-2010, 05:39 PM   #9
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One would think that if the SMC version had ED elements in it that they would have put ED on the lens somewhere and marketed it as such.


JCdog2006, Do you have access to an accurate balance to weigh them on? Preferably in grams.
02-17-2010, 08:22 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
One would think that if the SMC version had ED elements in it that they would have put ED on the lens somewhere and marketed it as such.
Agree!


QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
JCdog2006, Do you have access to an accurate balance to weigh them on? Preferably in grams.
What I can access to is that one used in kitchen with 1000 gram full scale, I have no idea how accurate it is. Both lenses weigh around 527g without caps on and weigh around 537g with caps on. There is no difference in their weight.
02-18-2010, 12:04 AM   #11
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JCdog2006, did you try looking at the coloured reflections with a desk lamp with both lenses in exactly the same position? If they are different coatings, the colours may be different shades or positions.
I weighed my smc version today and found it to be 530g also, so i might be right about them being the same construction.
02-18-2010, 10:02 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by DreTAX Quote
JCdog2006, did you try looking at the coloured reflections with a desk lamp with both lenses in exactly the same position? If they are different coatings, the colours may be different shades or positions.
I weighed my smc version today and found it to be 530g also, so i might be right about them being the same construction.
Hi DreTAX, I changed all of the bulbs in my house to the energy saving ones years ago, so....... I'll try to find a tungsten one and see if I can figure out anything.

Judged by the weight, the construction of these 70-200mm and 70-210mm may be all the same, even the coating may be all the same too though this is just a "wild guess". Sometimes marketing strategy dominates.
02-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by DreTAX Quote
...IF these 2 zoom lenses have the same coating, then something is wrong! I am yet to be convinced that the SMC F70-210 has different elements/ optical construction with ED glass and have identical weight. That site also states that version is dark grey and why don't we see ED on the name plate? Three versions are listed in the non-SMC list, Tak F70-210, Pen F70-200 & Tak F 70-200, all have the same contruction and funnily enough the same weight.
I feel that all these lenses are the same except maybe the SMC on one of them, which jcdog2006 may be able to answer.
It may also be possible for a dishonest person to make a non-SMC to look like a SMC version.
I may just muddy the waters further with my post, but here goes: My battered SMC Pentax-F 70-210 f4-5.6 copy weighs a bit over 530 grams. Its front elements have a coating that reflects light very much like a Takumar Bayonet/Takumar-A/Takumar-F lens does. That reflection is a pale purple, with almost no other colors showing. It looks simple, like you would expect a single layer, not complex. The rear elements have a much more typical SMC look, with orange and green.

I have the glass and some pieces from a Takumar-F 70-200mm f4-5.6 lens. That lens sort of looks like the Pentax-F but they don't share much more than cosmetic similarities. Internal construction is different. Despite Bojidar's table showing the same data for the 70-200 and 70-210 models, this lens is not the same. His pictures show one obvious difference that I've also seen: the lenses are different minimum lengths (at 70mm). My conclusion is that the Takumar-F 70-200 data that Bojidar shows is wrong, and this lens is just a cousin to the 70-210s. I don't have enough parts left for an accurate weight.

Blue said, "I don't think color is a reliable way to tell the difference in the coatings anyway." He's right that it's not reliable; I've seen photos of two FA43s side by side with really different-looking coating reflections. I think there's some evidence for suspicion here but not enough for a conviction. To really prove something, complete disassembly might be necessary, and I wouldn't volunteer if they were my lenses.
02-19-2010, 08:16 AM   #14
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Thanks, Just1MoreDave for ruling out the 70-200's from the list. It appears that we are getting a common weight for the different 70-210's. I am trying to fit pieces to the puzzle without the obvious "open it up and have a look". The variation in coatings (if any) will not give us that closure, for we shall never know the real answer until someone comes forward with first hand knowledge of the disection of these models.
From my own visual inspection, i can see the same shades of colour between my K's similar to my M's. The green looks different on the A's and then the orange changes to the F's. The DA's are different again. I have a Rikenon with basic pale colours. The Sigmas and Tamrons whilst similar to their kind, are nothing like the Pentax smc.
Logic tells me that if one is Single coat or No coat whilst the other is SMC, it will show and that may be the only significant variation of these models. On the face of it, there appears to be no ED glass, extra elements or change in mass.
I did the same search as you JCdog2006 for the same reasons, it looks like we may have wasted our time on this one! However it still captures great images.
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