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02-21-2010, 01:10 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oggy Quote
Still Drives Mine
You must be a very sympathetic individual. Whenever someone reports they have had a failure of their lens, you never miss an opportunity to rub their nose in it.

Well we are all so very happy that Oggy's lenses are working.

Run along now little Oggy.

02-21-2010, 08:18 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by EsBee Quote
As much as I like Pentax, I just think they've just completely and deliberately ignored SDM issues. It may be economically more viable for them to just fix those lenses that show up at their service center while still under warranty than to fix the real issue, but its definitely off-putting that they haven't even acknowledged it much less fix the issue all together, especially since they continue to use the SDM technology to market the DA* lenses.

No one would knowingly pay big bucks for a manual lens with good optics and weather sealing. What about the cost of shipping the item back to Pentax even if it is under warranty, and about down time and lost opportunities?
In the long haul, this might be a money maker for Pentax. Fixing off warranty SDM lenses may turn into a nice little employment maker for the repair departments.
02-21-2010, 02:01 PM   #18
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It's a basic logistics principle that unless you have SPARES you don't actually have anything you can relly on.

ANY professional worth his salt, when shooting a can't-miss event such as a wedding, MUST have backups. Body backups and lens backups. Even photographer backups in case you break a leg and can't cover the event yourself.

Not having backups and complaining when gear fails is simply plain lack of responsibility and a pathetic attempt to shift blame to the manufacturer.

Faults happen with any equipment. Nikon, Canon, Leica, there's no such thing as bulletproof equipment. The only coping strategy is to have spares.
02-21-2010, 02:44 PM   #19
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Professional should have backups, but it should not be confused with lousy QC on the manufacturer's side.

02-21-2010, 02:55 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
It's a basic logistics principle that unless you have SPARES you don't actually have anything you can relly on.

ANY professional worth his salt, when shooting a can't-miss event such as a wedding, MUST have backups. Body backups and lens backups. Even photographer backups in case you break a leg and can't cover the event yourself.

Not having backups and complaining when gear fails is simply plain lack of responsibility and a pathetic attempt to shift blame to the manufacturer.

Faults happen with any equipment. Nikon, Canon, Leica, there's no such thing as bulletproof equipment. The only coping strategy is to have spares.
Since when did owning an SDM lense make you a professional?
02-21-2010, 02:55 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
It's a basic logistics principle that unless you have SPARES you don't actually have anything you can relly on.
So now it is not enough for us to spend $1,000 on DA* lenses. Now we are supposed to buy backups for those lenses?

Who knew buying into Pentax would be so expensive.
02-21-2010, 03:51 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
It's a basic logistics principle that unless you have SPARES you don't actually have anything you can relly on.

ANY professional worth his salt, when shooting a can't-miss event such as a wedding, MUST have backups. Body backups and lens backups. Even photographer backups in case you break a leg and can't cover the event yourself.

Not having backups and complaining when gear fails is simply plain lack of responsibility and a pathetic attempt to shift blame to the manufacturer.

Faults happen with any equipment. Nikon, Canon, Leica, there's no such thing as bulletproof equipment. The only coping strategy is to have spares.
what a bunch of sanctimonious tripe...

sooooo, we see no SDM lenses in your gear list...home many of each limited do you have as YOUR backups? Please further enlighten us poor peons...
02-21-2010, 03:57 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
You must be a very sympathetic individual. Whenever someone reports they have had a failure of their lens, you never miss an opportunity to rub their nose in it.

Well we are all so very happy that Oggy's lenses are working.

Run along now little Oggy.

Sorry poke, but I do get a little bored with the sanctimonious "burn the witch" drivel which this forum descends into at the mere mention of SDM. Still it must be of some comfort to you to know that I must be dead because I have had four for a year and at least one of them must have killed me by now when it blew up.

02-21-2010, 05:15 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
So now it is not enough for us to spend $1,000 on DA* lenses. Now we are supposed to buy backups for those lenses?

Who knew buying into Pentax would be so expensive.
Slow down here... he's talking strictly about professionals, in which case you HAVE to have backups, whether the backup lens does exactly the same thing / not is up to you (ie: you dont have to backup DA 16-50 with another one, 17-50/2.8 ig probably enough).

I think that for personal use, a 1000$ ticking time bomb with 6 weeks downtime is not acceptable though.
02-21-2010, 08:34 PM   #25
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And I bet some people with 2 identical SDM lens for any paid job still felt much less secure than a single slot AF lens. If I were to rely on my gears for regular income, I would stay far far away from anything SDM.
02-21-2010, 09:33 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oggy Quote
I must be dead because I have had four for a year and at least one of them must have killed me by now when it blew up.
I don't even know what this sentence means.
02-21-2010, 09:49 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
It's a basic logistics principle that unless you have SPARES you don't actually have anything you can relly on.

ANY professional worth his salt, when shooting a can't-miss event such as a wedding, MUST have backups. Body backups and lens backups. Even photographer backups in case you break a leg and can't cover the event yourself.

Not having backups and complaining when gear fails is simply plain lack of responsibility and a pathetic attempt to shift blame to the manufacturer.

Faults happen with any equipment. Nikon, Canon, Leica, there's no such thing as bulletproof equipment. The only coping strategy is to have spares.
Back-up or not, professional or not, having a sudden failure of a lens is different than dropping of a lens. What you're stating is as if SDM failure is user fault.
02-21-2010, 10:34 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
It's a basic logistics principle that unless you have SPARES you don't actually have anything you can relly on.

ANY professional worth his salt, when shooting a can't-miss event such as a wedding, MUST have backups. Body backups and lens backups. Even photographer backups in case you break a leg and can't cover the event yourself.

Not having backups and complaining when gear fails is simply plain lack of responsibility and a pathetic attempt to shift blame to the manufacturer.

Faults happen with any equipment. Nikon, Canon, Leica, there's no such thing as bulletproof equipment. The only coping strategy is to have spares.
I seem to remember, my mom only had one Pentax SLR, while I was growing up. On it she had the M-mount 50mm f2.0 kit lens, and that was it.
She did rely on it. It had to work during our camping trips, school functions, and everything else.
Mom couldn't afford any backup equipment, and guess what. She didn't need it. That old camera would have lived through a war.
I'm still using the 50mm lens today.

I honestly can't see anything being different today. There are still low income households, where they rely on a single camera. For them it MUST be just 100% reliable.

With Pro's. They're only going to buy so many backups. If they can't trust the equipment you can bet that they'll change to something more trustworthy the first chance they get.
02-21-2010, 11:01 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I seem to remember, my mom only had one Pentax SLR, while I was growing up. On it she had the M-mount 50mm f2.0 kit lens, and that was it.
She did rely on it. It had to work during our camping trips, school functions, and everything else.
Mom couldn't afford any backup equipment, and guess what. She didn't need it. That old camera would have lived through a war.
I'm still using the 50mm lens today.

I honestly can't see anything being different today. There are still low income households, where they rely on a single camera. For them it MUST be just 100% reliable.

With Pro's. They're only going to buy so many backups. If they can't trust the equipment you can bet that they'll change to something more trustworthy the first chance they get.
Great perspective. Thank you for reminding us of priorities. You described almost exactly my mom, and our situation with the "family camera." Those once-in-a-lifetime family shots are much more important than a pro shot. With a pro shot, all you lose is money. That is the thing that made me so furious when my last (and final) SDM failure happened at an important family event. Come to think of it, we amateurs rely much more on the reliability of our cameras than the pros do. And to the people in our families that look to us to take the pictures, reliability really is ALL that matters. Most wouldn't care if we used P&S cameras as long as we got the shot.

Last edited by PentaxPoke; 02-21-2010 at 11:06 PM.
02-21-2010, 11:14 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
Come to think of it, we amateurs rely much more on the reliability of our cameras than the pros do.
Don't count on it.
I think this attitude come from people who don't have a clue about the realities of professional photography.
Contrary to popular belief, pro photographers don't exist in a world of unlimited wealth.
They often live in a world of fairly hand to mouth existence just like everyone else.
They might have back up camera bodies, but rarely will have the veritable bags of equipment that a lot of people seem to think they have.
The pro whose 16-50/2.8 goes down due to SDM failure is more than likely going to be using a kit lens for a while, and is going to be looking hard at whether what is in the shop is really cutting it for what he needs it for.
Pro gear, first and foremost, has to work, and it has to work reliably.
In this, Pentax has dropped the ball and is well and truly on their way to making themselves a laughing stock.
SDM is making a name for itself as being crap technology that can't be relied on to work.
No professional is going to buy into this.

My 60-250 is in the shop after 8 months of mostly sitting in a camera bag because Pentax is putting junk technology into very expensive packages.
My 55/1.4 gave a little hiccup today, so we'll see where it is going.

One thing I know for sure is that I have bought my last SDM lenses.
Even Stigma is starting to look good.
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