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03-01-2010, 04:17 PM   #31
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What if; just a thought, they moved all the Japanese workers to Vietnam pay them the Vietnamese wages and labeled the product ..."Made in Vietnam by a Japanese worker" LMAO...i know Ned is LHAO at that one...Ned i want 15% off that idea!!! *yes, i AM a marketing GENIUS* out of my mom's basement

03-01-2010, 05:16 PM   #32
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Assembly + shipping.

As long as shipping costs remain small we will continue to see this transference of manufacturing to the lowest producer.

However if transportation costs appreciate significantly we may see larger less expensive item production moved back to the primary markets.

As for lenses (high lost, low bulk) I don't think that is ever going to happen.
03-01-2010, 10:05 PM   #33
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I think Ned opened up a :CanofWorms: trying to avoid the SDM question or the firmware update possibility to use the screw drive on K20d etc.
03-02-2010, 01:28 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I think Ned opened up a :CanofWorms: trying to avoid the SDM question or the firmware update possibility to use the screw drive on K20d etc.
I'm not sure where the SDM were manufactured but not Vietnam and it failed quite funny.

But I know the USM of Canon are produced in Vietnam. So, CO is not an issue but QA and QC.

03-02-2010, 01:41 AM   #35
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All DA Limiteds were made in Vietnam alright so I don't see why the FA Limiteds wouldn't also.
03-02-2010, 02:10 AM   #36
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Pentax has two assemblent plants in Vietnam. Those are owned and run by Pentax.
They are assemblent plants which means they put together pieces made elsewhere, and those pieces comes from Japan. That is why the term "Assembled in Vietnam" is used.
It is the same thing with the cameras assembled in the Phillipines. Pentax does not make the parts themselves, they buys from others and puts those parts together.

The lens elements are finished and coated in Japan, by Hoya. It is Hoya's speciality...
Then they are shipped to Vietnam and assembled in the lens.

To those afraid of Pentax products from China - Pentax closed down their own factory in China when Hoya took over. The Optios were made there. I have an Optio 30 made there, and this beauty is a fantastic digicam. Not fast, but delivers great and sharp and colourful images.

Now many of the Optios comes from Taiwan, by an OEM maker.
But Taiwan is also China...
03-02-2010, 08:29 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
All DA Limiteds were made in Vietnam alright so I don't see why the FA Limiteds wouldn't also.
That was my point!

QuoteOriginally posted by Terzof Quote
I'm not sure where the SDM were manufactured but not Vietnam and it failed quite funny.

But I know the USM of Canon are produced in Vietnam. So, CO is not an issue but QA and QC.
Most of the DA lenses if not all are made in Vietnam. Its only some of the FA ltd and FA* lenses that are made in Japan although the FA* 600 f4 has been recently discontinued. Its unclear if the FA ltd from Japan are remain old stock or what.
03-02-2010, 10:31 AM   #38
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I would like to point out the flipside.

I'm looking at ultrawides and I note that Sigma usually gets a note of caution regarding the variability - there are more than a few turnips nestled amidst the diamonds. All Sigma is made in Japan. Also, it's not as if I havn't read about QA grumblings with other Pentax gear, made in Japan.

So hoping that the proverbial glass is half full rather than half empty, perhaps moving production to another country might improve QA, especially if the plants & processes are newer.

ps. I'd buy a Chinese lens any day, if it were good. The world is changing. imo.

03-02-2010, 10:48 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
. . .

ps. I'd buy a Chinese lens any day, if it were good. The world is changing. imo.
I am going to call b.S. on that. The Chi-Com aren't in farther along on human rights than they were in 1989 and Tiananmen Square. Many of the rural factories are 1 step above slave labor and much of China is an environmental disaster. The world is a dynamic place and always has been. However, its not a foregone conclusion has to how the future pans out.
03-02-2010, 11:11 AM   #40
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There's far more concern over SDM failures

There's far more concern over SDM failures on the internets.

No SDM lens has been made outside of VietNam. So there's no better made Japan version to compare VietNam SDM glass to.

I own one VietNam lens, a 80-320 FA. Really nice optics inspite of its universal bad press. Proof to me of inconsistent quality control even in early days at Vietnam as it was made in early years of Pentax off shoring production.

Thesedays I still buy Made in Japan gear, its just not Pentax Logo'd.

100% of all Canon Eos gear I bought is boldly marked Japan. All but one Nikon item I own says Japan also. Nikon branched out to Thailand years ago and Thailand gear costs less to produce so Nikon passes on the savings.

Has 31mm LTD dropped in price since it's production got off shored to VietNam or gone up in price?

Off shoring & out sourcing is not done to improve product quality, its done to improve bottom line.
03-02-2010, 05:12 PM   #41
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For all of you that feel the VN lenses are equal to Japanese

VM employs some of the cheapest labor in the world. It's also home to some of the planet's lowest living standards. Not to mention offensively weak child labor enforcement. I prefer to buy my premium products from Japan, Germany, and the USA. If I am going to pay a premium price, I want my money to go to the highest paid workers, not the biggest stock holder.

And BTW - The president of a multinational corporation answers to shareholders, before consumers. Believe this when an independent tester, with a random sample, comes to the same conclusion.

I've done the testing myself and the VM copy showed a marked difference in sharpness wide open. I also sold my VM copy and picked up a nice used JP version this weekend (Thanks Thomas!)

I know, I know, who am I gonna believe, Ned Bunnell or my lying eyes.

For all of you that feel the VN lenses are equal to the Japanese, please sell me your lenses. I'll pay 969USD for each. I can easily come up with 30k. That's 30 some lenses. Happy to help you buy brand new VM 31mm LTD's. Seriously.

Last edited by MJS; 03-02-2010 at 05:18 PM.
03-02-2010, 06:17 PM   #42
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I can't say if the working condition in Vietnam compares favorably to China. China is a big country anyways, it's easy to compare the bad with the worst.

But to me, really the point of manufacturing outsourcing is lowered prices. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. Profit margin is being extended on both ends, with more emphasis on marketing budgets. At some point, I really have to say no thanks!
03-02-2010, 07:31 PM   #43
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Those with pre-conceived notions of China and Vietnam should do themselves a favor and actually visit the said countries in person to find out how the respective countries really are.
I'm pretty sure some of the common stereotyping will be challenged.

Last edited by creampuff; 03-02-2010 at 07:40 PM.
03-02-2010, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJS Quote
...
I've done the testing myself and the VM copy showed a marked difference in sharpness wide open. I also sold my VM copy and picked up a nice used JP version this weekend (Thanks Thomas!)

I know, I know, who am I gonna believe, Ned Bunnell or my lying eyes.

For all of you that feel the VN lenses are equal to the Japanese, please sell me your lenses. I'll pay 969USD for each. I can easily come up with 30k. That's 30 some lenses. Happy to help you buy brand new VM 31mm LTD's. Seriously.
I think you can do all of us on Pentaxforums a big favor by posting some actual photos to back up your assertion.
After all the Pentax USA President has posted his test photos and conclusions. Talk is cheap. If you want to claim otherwise, then let's have the proof. Seriously.
03-02-2010, 07:54 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I think you can do all of us on Pentaxforums a big favor by posting some actual photos to back up your assertion.
After all the Pentax USA President has posted his test photos and conclusions. Talk is cheap. If you want to claim otherwise, then let's have the proof. Seriously.
I'm pretty sure he has, and the difference was clear. The Vietnam lens produced softer results under identical situations.

However I'm not convinced that this was due to the assembly location. There are variances between all copies of a lens model, and it's likely his two copies just suffer from that variance. Everyone here talks about how the materials are all the same and nothing changes between assembling one lens and the next, but the truth is, each part of the lens might be slightly different from one lens to the next. Each piece needs to have tolerances that are within a certain range. QC determines whether a part is within that range or not. Sometimes, a lens is assembled with parts that are all on the bounds of that tolerance range, and the resulting stack of tolerances makes the lens less sharp. It's normal, it happened in Japan too and it's not uncommon to see in all kinds of optical instruments.

As far as MJS's narrow-minded preconceptions of Vietnam, I wasn't even going to bother commenting on that. I'd just ignore it and move along...
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