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03-02-2010, 08:24 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
I'm pretty sure he has, and the difference was clear. The Vietnam lens produced softer results under identical situations.
Really? Where's the photos or are you just repeating the assertion?

03-02-2010, 08:33 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Really? Where's the photos or are you just repeating the assertion?
I saw the photos, they're on the forum somewhere. I just can't remember in which thread. The difference was clear.

edit: in restrospect, I don't think it was MJS who posted the pictures (since he only has 14 posts). But the pictures were posted by someone on this forum and they clearly showed a difference between the two lenses.

Last edited by GoremanX; 03-02-2010 at 08:42 PM.
03-02-2010, 08:49 PM   #48
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Here's one example (although not the one I was referring to):
03-02-2010, 09:10 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Those with pre-conceived notions of China and Vietnam should do themselves a favor and actually visit the said countries in person to find out how the respective countries really are.
I'm pretty sure some of the common stereotyping will be challenged.
I suggested something similar in one of the related threads.

03-02-2010, 10:45 PM   #50
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My views aren't narrow, they're informed.

I choose to buy premium products from places where workers have health insurance, are protected by safety controls, and earn wages commensurate with the skill sets required to build a $1000 lens. Presently that's not Vietnam.

Child labor is controversial subject in Vietnam. Little attention has traditionally been given to the problem due to widely held views that work can be positive for children. Although Vietnamese law prohibits the employment of children under 15 some children are ruthlessly exploited in gold mines, timber operations, cargo transport, and other hazardous occupations. Conditions of employment are arbitrarily fixed by employers, and often include excessive hours, wages far below the minimum rate, lack of basic facilities, physical and mental abuse, and assorted health hazards. You don't find that in Germany, Japan and the least not as the rule instead of exception.

Beyond the current paucity of comprehensive regulations to protect workers, the existing laws are not being aggressively enforced. The lack of effective inspection and enforcement mechanisms allows violators to operate ad hoc, without sufficient accountability or punishment. Presently that is Vietnam, at least in 2010.

Pentax didn't move the factory to Vietnam to build better lenses, they did it to earn higher profits.

I love the high end Pentax gear. I have a 77mm LTD, a 43mm LTD, and a recently acquired another MIJ 31mm LTD. But I am very disappointed that they are moving manufacturing to places where people are over worked and under valued. I've heard tale the 77 LTD is next to move to VM. Sad.
03-02-2010, 11:17 PM   #51
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@MJS -- It's no tale. I got my new silver FA 77mm Ltd assembled in Vietnam. Love it! You really can't generalize high-tech plant from coal mines and bad coffee plantations, now can you? We have a member here, AirSupply, with contacts at the Vietnam plant. Let's just ask him about the labor conditions and the work force!

I clearly see eBay sellers hoarding the "Made in Japan" lenses and scaring the gullible into paying the premium -- looks like your proposition above was banking on that exactly, if you were serious...
03-03-2010, 12:04 AM - 1 Like   #52
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@MJS: I have to say that most of your perceptions are incorrect. I had lived and grown up in Vietnam - Saigon for 19 yrs, and now I am living in the States for over 5 yrs. Yes, Vietnam is a small and poor country of the 3rd world where $1 can be exchanged for 19,000 Vietnam dong and where someone just live with less than .50 cents a day.

However, after Bill Clinton lifted the sanction on Ha Noi, the Communist opened the gate for the investors from US, Europe, Japan, Taiwan and Korea. Now you can frequently see the millions dollars cars (Bentley, Roll Roys etc.) On the steets of Saigon (Ho chi minh city) or Ha Noi. The standard quality of life has been improved obviously, but there are many many and many people living under the extremely poor conditions.

I can confirm with you that absolutely no children in any industrial factories (not count the blackmarket or illegal stuff like gold mines) , but most of the workers in the Toyota, Ford, Pentax etc. are the young men and women from the poor villages. They are the skillful and hard-working workers who make the high quality and luxury clothes or shoes for US and Europe markets.

In the Pentax factory, you can see the Japanes engineers working together with the Vietnamese engineers and workers, because just only them are well trained to run the chain and test the quality. I agree that Pentax make more profits when they placed their factories in Vietnam because the cost for labor is very cheap (about $100 a month for a normal worker or more than $300 for an engineer depend on the position).

That make a very obvious point about doing business, but I strongly believe that there is no difference between the chain and testing process in Japan or Vietnam. Nothing is perfect, and there are some bad lens made from Vietnam, but that doesn't make a statement that "all the lens not made from Japan are not so good"

That's my opinion. I love to have the Pentax lens made from the hands of my people, because I know that they made it with all of their heart and effort

Last edited by AirSupply; 03-03-2010 at 12:12 AM.

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