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03-18-2010, 11:59 AM   #16
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Thanks for posting the link, straight from the horse's mouth. If I ever run into an AIV Silver that I can afford, I won't look away

03-18-2010, 12:33 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote
made in japan used to mean total junk, 15 yrs ago.
Actually, Japanese optics have been respected since the late 50s by most people except the Germans who were in complete denial until 1968 and realized their rangefinder bodies sales had slowed way down. There is a reason that certain lenses and cameras have those little gold stickers on them!
03-18-2010, 12:36 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I am wondering why it matters where it is assembled.
Is there evidence that the Viet Namese people's skills and craftsmanship
are inherently inferior to that of the Japanese, or is that just an assumption by some?
There have been a couple of threads in the recent past that got into this debate including Chinese manufacturing that got somewhat heated. However, I tend to agree with you. Keep in mind all of the DA ltd lenses and many if not all of the DA* lenses have been assembled at the Vietnam factory. The debate only comes into play with the FA ltd and FA lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by EsBee Quote
Thanks for posting the link, straight from the horse's mouth. If I ever run into an AIV Silver that I can afford, I won't look away
Be careful, horses have arses also! Generally I like Ned but he is the top Pentax salesman in the U.S.
03-18-2010, 09:21 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Actually, Japanese optics have been respected since the late 50s by most people except the Germans who were in complete denial until 1968 and realized their rangefinder bodies sales had slowed way down. There is a reason that certain lenses and cameras have those little gold stickers on them!
Please explain. All my old Minolta gear had those gold QC stickers, but all my Pentax gear does not have them. What's up ?

03-18-2010, 09:52 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
Please explain. All my old Minolta gear had those gold QC stickers, but all my Pentax gear does not have them. What's up ?
All quality Japanese optics had the gold sticker until after 1989. If yours doesn't have them, they were removed. The bodies also had them. These images are from the PF data base. JCII was established in 1954 to inspect all cameras exported from Japan in order to maintain quality standards. As of 1989, Japanese optics were not questioned even by most German firms.








Last edited by Blue; 03-18-2010 at 09:57 PM.
03-18-2010, 10:54 PM   #21
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Sorry for not being clear (seems to be the story of my life when it comes to photography). I know what they look like (as I said, all my old Minolta gear, bought before 1989, had it). But my Pentax dSLR gear does not. K10D, K100D, 18-55mm AL-II, 55-300mm and FA31LTD, they don't have it.

But I understand from your reply that an independent body checked every exported camera and lens up till about 1989. After that not anymore and that's why I don't have those stickers on my dSLR Pentax gear. So I do not have to worry about that any longer

Thanks for the reply.
03-19-2010, 07:21 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenMerola Quote
It is an assumption. And I find it frusterating because I know what this is going to turn into. I am going to pay $1000.00 for a Fa 31mm and poeple going to think the MIJ version is better and I am going to be stuck with a lens that is worth less than it should be.
You may be right, but it is possible that the inverse will happen. The MIVN version will remain steady in value and the MIJ version will command a premium. Either way, the basis of your theory is right. There will be a price difference on the used market likely based on perception rather than a difference in quality.
03-19-2010, 07:52 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
You may be right, but it is possible that the inverse will happen. The MIVN version will remain steady in value and the MIJ version will command a premium. Either way, the basis of your theory is right. There will be a price difference on the used market likely based on perception rather than a difference in quality.
I don't see any version of the FA 31mm ltd selling for cheap per se. If they did, I'd have one.

03-19-2010, 10:24 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I don't see any version of the FA 31mm ltd selling for cheap per se. If they did, I'd have one.
I don't envision anything worth having selling cheap ever again.
I do have one and it is unequivocally the best money I have ever spent on a lens.
I would give up every other lens I own before I would part with that one.
03-19-2010, 11:22 AM - 1 Like   #25
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I live in Hong Kong and manufacture products in China (some good stuff, but not optics levels)

I can tell you that people in HK are unusually aware of quality (you won't find any rare bargains on dcfever.com or review33.com). Lots of rare.

The whitewash perception in HK is that Japanese goods manufactured OUTSIDE of Japan are inferior. This is accurate. No doubt.

Pricing reflects that.

Hoya recently announced that their new-found profitability was not from increased margins, but decreased costs.

GO Pentax! I love you. But QC needs to be insane when you move to less experienced places.

People who have not had the opportunity to experience quality products in their own lives cannot possibly be expected to make them.
03-19-2010, 01:07 PM   #26
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QuoteQuote:
The whitewash perception in HK is that Japanese goods manufactured OUTSIDE of Japan are inferior. This is accurate. No doubt.
Like you say its a perception.. and proof of accuracy in the case of DA* and FA Limited being inferior in any way has yet to be given.


QuoteQuote:
People who have not had the opportunity to experience quality products in their own lives cannot possibly be expected to make them.
If that is fact then how did people of any race or country experience quality products in the first place?
03-20-2010, 04:40 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote

If that is fact then how did people of any race or country experience quality products in the first place?
It was a gradual process. It didn't happen within one generation, let alone single-digit years as seems to be expected these days. In order to overcome this, you need to spend more on skilled QC.
03-20-2010, 05:27 AM   #28
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globalisation is inevitable. it drives down costs, until corporatists run out of countries to exploit. having that said, I'm hard pressed to find any prosumer lenses that are still made in Japan, except for the higher quality Nikkor and Canons... and Sigma/Tamrons... I'm loving Tamrons right now.
03-20-2010, 02:37 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
It was a gradual process. It didn't happen within one generation, let alone single-digit years as seems to be expected these days. In order to overcome this, you need to spend more on skilled QC.
I do believe that the Vietnamese and any country or race given the correct instructions and procedures would obtain the same results if they have the same tools to work with given that they were/are guided by those already having the knowledge and experience.... which I believe is the case with Pentax lenses.

Quality control is governed by quality control measures.

I do not believe at all that we can undermine the skills and capabilities of certain people or cultures.

cheers

Neil
03-20-2010, 09:49 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
15 years ago??? What year are you living in? snip.
LOL I was thinking the same thing. I have to admit that I sometimes can't get over how far the 80's is in the rear view mirror
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