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07-12-2007, 09:07 AM   #16
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What I meant is many Canon shooters don't use or even buy their fast primes at all even when I look sometimes in the DPreview forums I dont see many people with high end primes - even though they are available - one reason is some of them are very very very expensive. But not all are of course.

Pentax has plenty fast primes and not only that with the newer cameras with SR all of these primes are stabilized + Canon or Nikon dont offer any fast glass (faster than f/2.8) with stabilization. Thats not just a minor advantage but a huge one for me.

Also what do you consider fast? f/2.8 and faster what about when it can take advantage of SR?

IMO the current fast pentax primes are

DA14 - f/2.8
FA31 - f/1.8
FA35 - f/2
FA43 -f/1.9
FA50 - f/1.4
DA70 - f/2.4
FA77 - f/1.8
DFA100 - f/2.8
and for 200 and 300 they are coming in a few months.

And you can also count the DA21 and DA40 too. Remember the DA primes are excellent straight from the wide-open aperture and couple it with SR they are actually good low-light lenses. Im not saying Canon doesnt have any either - they have plenty nice expensive lenses - just that some especially are outrageously expensive.

Priyantha - Pentax does have equivalents for some of the lenses in very close focal lenghts and also for the zooms as-well the 16-35 and 17-55 will have the DA*16-50, 24-70 you can get Sigma or Tamron's just as fast. 50-135 is the new 70-200 with Pentax - they decided that since they are sticking to APS-C that with the crop factor you get the same focal lenghts as a 70-200 mounted on a full frame like the 5D - I both agree and disagree with Pentax's decision on this. THe 60-250 f/4 is an awesome range IMO and I would take this over a regular 70-200 f/4 and even f/2.8. If you want all that Canon glass its easy - sell your gear and go buy a Canon. You seem to love talking about them often in both forums so why not just make yourself happy if Pentax don't offer what you want? Im not being cheeky or anything - I am just asking why you are sticking with Pentax if they don't have the type of lenses you are looking for? Of course with the re-introduction of all this fast * glass Pentax is definetely heading in the right directiona and I for one will be buying the 16-50, 60-250 and 55 primes to add to my 10-17 fisheye, DA21,FA31, FA50 and DFA100 lenses. Even as it is now because of SR the 18-55, 50-200 kit I can even live with (and have been for the past 8 months with some excellent photos from both).

07-12-2007, 09:58 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
you forgot the k/m/a/f series of lenses.
He/she didn't forget them... they're not currently available new. They are available through eBay or other second hand sources if you can find them. A, F and FA are the only ones that retain full metering ability without having to be stopped down, and the amount of second-hand A, F and FA lenses going around now is not many (with the exception of 50mm primes and slow cheap zooms).

QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well...my question to all who says 'Pentax has plenty fast primes...
Now I can only count a couple.
You can take the 35mm f/2 off that list. Stores are selling their last and not getting any more. Samsung now have that lens, and at least in the UK they charge more for it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well this is not a flame to Pentax I am a loyal Pentax user and I am enoying my K10D when I am working with it.
But I have to get a fast standard zoom like a 16-35 2.8 and a fast tele like a 70-200 2.8.
Same on the 70-200 f/2.8. There are currently no third-party options available new because Sigma discontinued theirs and didn't bother to make the new one in K mount. As for Pentax's own nearest offering of 50-135mm... well, see the first posts of this thread. I too am a long-time Pentax user and don't make negative posts just for fun... but whenever you do make criticisms, 'more loyal' Pentaxians are always prepared to tell us why we don't need a certain lens and why we should be happy to wait until who-knows-when for those lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by anomaly Quote
SMC Pentax-A 50mm F1.2
SMC Pentax-FA 50mm F1.4
SMC Pentax-FA* 85mm F1.4 [IF]
SMC Pentax-M 35mm F1.4
SMC Pentax-FA 50mm F1.7
SMC/S-M-C/Super/Auto-Takumar 55mm F1.8
S-M-C/Auto Takumar 85mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited
SMC Pentax-A* 135mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited
SMC Pentax 55mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 43mm F1.9 Limited
Sorry but what you have there is a list of fast primes that Pentax has made... not a list of fast primes that are currently available. For example good luck finding the 85mm f/1.8 FA, or the 135mm f/1.8... or affording to be the winning bidder if one eventually turns up on eBay.

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
Also what do you consider fast? f/2.8 and faster what about when it can take advantage of SR?
I know a lot of folks like SR. I find it useful in certain situations. But it's not a tripod and it's not a faster lens. SR does not make a lens faster, it just means that you can get away with shooting hand-held at slower shutter speeds... there are other purposes for a fast lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
If you want all that Canon glass its easy - sell your gear and go buy a Canon. You seem to love talking about them often in both forums so why not just make yourself happy if Pentax don't offer what you want? Im not being cheeky or anything - I am just asking why you are sticking with Pentax if they don't have the type of lenses you are looking for?
I wonder if Pentax should use that in their advertising... great slogan for a business: "Don't see what you like? Get lost then!" as for why someone who sticks with Pentax would complain about lenses... maybe when they started investing in Pentax it seemed that they did have the choice of lenses they were looking for? Once you are invested in a system, you're going to lose a fair amount of money switching to another... and that's even if you like the alternatives! Talking about the range of lenses another company has is not the same as saying you would rather have that system. It should be possible to use and like a system but also make criticisms when you feel they need to be made.
07-12-2007, 10:39 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote


I know a lot of folks like SR. I find it useful in certain situations. But it's not a tripod and it's not a faster lens. SR does not make a lens faster, it just means that you can get away with shooting hand-held at slower shutter speeds... there are other purposes for a fast lens.

Well of course it wont give you a faster shutter speed - but its still an advantage none the less. Its not an advantage for action but for all other shooting situations it is a big plus. Would you rahter not have it? So in effect it does give you the advantage a fast lens would give you by allowing you to use slower than normal shutter speeds for shooting in low-light situations.

I wonder if Pentax should use that in their advertising... great slogan for a business: "Don't see what you like? Get lost then!" as for why someone who sticks with Pentax would complain about lenses... maybe when they started investing in Pentax it seemed that they did have the choice of lenses they were looking for? Once you are invested in a system, you're going to lose a fair amount of money switching to another... and that's even if you like the alternatives! Talking about the range of lenses another company has is not the same as saying you would rather have that system. It should be possible to use and like a system but also make criticisms when you feel they need to be made.
To me that is common sense - when you buy a camera youre not just buying a camera - youre buying a system and its nobody elses fault but the person who is buying into it if they dont do their homework and dont realize what the Pentax Lens system has to offer. Maybe if he/she did their research before they bought the camera they would have realized Canon or Nikon or Olympus or whatever may have been better for them. It's not like 6 months ago Pentax had a bunch of fast * zooms available and took them away overnight. Theyve been long gone now and indeed the replacements are only now starting to show-up in plans and hopefully in the stores.

And as for someone listing some Canon lenses that are stupendously expensive and saying there are no alternatives in Pentax - it is obvious money isnt a huge factor considering the lenses listed - and losing a few hundred bucks by selling their current camera and lenses, etc. will probably not be a huge factor considering the cost of all the expensive Canon stuff listed here. But I essentially agree - you should do your homework before you buy into a system, once in it its tougher to switch without accepting losses and this is why you cant blame Pentax (even though we all want those lenses and that is another issue) since its not like all those lenses dissapeared overnight one day in 2006/2007.
07-12-2007, 11:07 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
To me that is common sense - when you buy a camera youre not just buying a camera - youre buying a system and its nobody elses fault but the person who is buying into it if they dont do their homework and dont realize what the Pentax Lens system has to offer. Maybe if he/she did their research before they bought the camera they would have realized Canon or Nikon or Olympus or whatever may have been better for them. It's not like 6 months ago Pentax had a bunch of fast * zooms available and took them away overnight. Theyve been long gone now and indeed the replacements are only now starting to show-up in plans and hopefully in the stores.

And as for someone listing some Canon lenses that are stupendously expensive and saying there are no alternatives in Pentax - it is obvious money isnt a huge factor considering the lenses listed - and losing a few hundred bucks by selling their current camera and lenses, etc. will probably not be a huge factor considering the cost of all the expensive Canon stuff listed here. But I essentially agree - you should do your homework before you buy into a system, once in it its tougher to switch without accepting losses and this is why you cant blame Pentax (even though we all want those lenses and that is another issue) since its not like all those lenses dissapeared overnight one day in 2006/2007.
What about the people who have been in the pentax system for 10+ years? I know, if someone's been with pentax for that long, they should be used to this by now. :-) j/k

But, up until the last 3/4 years, the pentax system has been reasonably well rounded and the used market was well stocked. This transition to digital has taken it's toll though on the company - imo. I think they bet on the used market sustaining their customers while they rolled out a whole new line, but the K series releases evaporated that source pretty quickly. Plus, the gear is so great, I don't think people want to get rid of it. :-)

I don't think many people are begrudging pentax for not making every fast prime that c/n do. (I'm not) Like others have said, it's easy to buy a body to fit one of those lenses if you need one. I personally would like to see a fast wide prime DA, but that's just me. I would also be fine with an FA 24mm F2 if they were still made.

I think the point of the thread is that the new lenses are late and we would like to get some info about that and be updated routinely. And, as a sidenote to the thread, discontinuing their old line multiple years before they start shipping most of their new line has made it hard to find good lenses. If you've been in this system from before they did this, then I think it's reasonable that people are wondering what's going on. Also, from a business perspective, I just don't understand why they stopped making the FA line so long ago.

Anyway, I'm sure the guys at pentax are doing everything they can to get the stuff produced and passing their QA level. I'm excited to try out a few of the DA* lenses when they do arrive.

07-12-2007, 11:11 AM   #20
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QuoteQuote:
Same on the 70-200 f/2.8. There are currently no third-party options available new because Sigma discontinued theirs and didn't bother to make the new one in K mount.
What??? I guess that explains why I never see any of these any more either.

Okay, what I'm about to say is a bit subjective and I don't mean any offense. I've got a 50mm 1.4 that came with one of my LXs, it's a great lens. No question. Fast, sharp, clearly one of the great ones. But when I compare it (using the same slide film on the same LX) to a new 28-70* 2.8, it just isn't as good. I don't feel like the contrast is there and the sharpness seems reduced.

Like I said, a subjective test only, and I'll keep using the 50mm from time to time just for fun on the K10. I can't help but feel that the newer stuff has benefited from improved coatings and better mechanisms and that shows in the pictures. So much of the old glass that is around (if you can find it) that used to be professional can't quite stand up to the new stuff (IMHO).

So it's great that my collection of old quality lenses will function on the K10. I enjoy that. But what used to be considered high quality just doesn't have the same edge any more. That's why this current lens situation hurts right now and that's why it's frustrating to see Pentax advertising things they don't make and delaying things they are trying to make.

I mean no disrespect to the older glass out there. I still like it too.
07-12-2007, 11:14 AM   #21
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Yeah no doubt its a shame that Pentax doesnt offer as many great lenses as much, but really it all comes down to business and profits. They obviously didn't have the demand and Pentax was too slow to adapt to digital. Now - with the ever increasing demand on Pentax gear the company saw the oppurtunity again and it will benefit us all. The people that have been into the system for 10+ years are the people that own those * lenses in the first place It's the later adopters that don't have as many choices as Pentax phased the lenses out - but thankfully we will now hopefully get those great * optics again with weather-sealing and SDM - progress is good and one has to be patient - Pentax is a very small company compared to Canon but I am very optimistic about the upcoming roadmap.
07-12-2007, 12:15 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
To me that is common sense - when you buy a camera youre not just buying a camera - youre buying a system and its nobody elses fault but the person who is buying into it if they dont do their homework and dont realize what the Pentax Lens system has to offer. Maybe if he/she did their research before they bought the camera they would have realized Canon or Nikon or Olympus or whatever may have been better for them. It's not like 6 months ago Pentax had a bunch of fast * zooms available and took them away overnight. Theyve been long gone now and indeed the replacements are only now starting to show-up in plans and hopefully in the stores.
I would agree with what you're saying here, except that it assumes that person A or person B only invested in the system 6 months ago, which is not always the case. Also I agree people should do their homework before investing, but this is why it annoys me that Pentax still list many lenses which are no longer available as if they are available - because it gives a false impression of the system. There's expecting people to do their homework, and then there's making it hard for them to do the homework right.

Also consider that some people probably thought that for a time they could fill the gaps in the line-up with good third-party glass... in some cases the glass is no longer made, like with the Sigma zoom... in other cases the option is completely removed, like the option of buying Tokina glass. The former is not Pentax's fault, the latter arguably is, but either way it still results in less available glass.

As for the roadmap... I am hopeful. I was optimistic and would like to be more optimistic again; it's just that yet another delay for two lenses which may not even have been designed by Pentax (no-one seems to really know who does what in the Pentax-Tokina partnership) makes it difficult... one thing is for sure though, I do have great hopes for the company... and if in 6 to 12 months people can say I was complaining about nothing because all the great new road-map lenses were just around the corner coming in on time... well then I will be very happy and apologetic to Pentax
07-12-2007, 12:40 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
I would agree with what you're saying here, except that it assumes that person A or person B only invested in the system 6 months ago, which is not always the case. Also I agree people should do their homework before investing, but this is why it annoys me that Pentax still list many lenses which are no longer available as if they are available - because it gives a false impression of the system. There's expecting people to do their homework, and then there's making it hard for them to do the homework right.

Also consider that some people probably thought that for a time they could fill the gaps in the line-up with good third-party glass... in some cases the glass is no longer made, like with the Sigma zoom... in other cases the option is completely removed, like the option of buying Tokina glass. The former is not Pentax's fault, the latter arguably is, but either way it still results in less available glass.

As for the roadmap... I am hopeful. I was optimistic and would like to be more optimistic again; it's just that yet another delay for two lenses which may not even have been designed by Pentax (no-one seems to really know who does what in the Pentax-Tokina partnership) makes it difficult... one thing is for sure though, I do have great hopes for the company... and if in 6 to 12 months people can say I was complaining about nothing because all the great new road-map lenses were just around the corner coming in on time... well then I will be very happy and apologetic to Pentax

Actually youre absolutely correct in the sense that Pentax really makes it hard as they do list the lenses on pentaximaging.com the only accurate site seems to be Pentaxslr.com - and this is the site I use primarily for looking at current Pentax gear.

Well anyways - I am hopeful that the first * lenses will be released in August and IMO at worst case if there is another delay or something it won't be a long one - say September or something - theyre coming soon now I can feel it

I am not sure if Pentax will release the *200 and *300 in September though. I would hope so.

07-12-2007, 12:49 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
you forgot the k/m/a/f series of lenses.
Not I didn't
I meant the AutoFocus lenses off course, not the MF lenses.
Canon doesn't produce MF lenses any more so doesn't Pentax.
I talked only about the Pentax lenses which are now in production, and that aren't very much.

QuoteOriginally posted by anomaly Quote
SMC Pentax-A 50mm F1.2
SMC Pentax-FA 50mm F1.4
SMC Pentax-FA* 85mm F1.4 [IF]
SMC Pentax-M 35mm F1.4
SMC Pentax-FA 50mm F1.7
SMC/S-M-C/Super/Auto-Takumar 55mm F1.8
S-M-C/Auto Takumar 85mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited
SMC Pentax-A* 135mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited
SMC Pentax 55mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 43mm F1.9 Limited

And you can go here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/showcat.php?cat=all&stype=1&si=F2

To see all lenses that are F2 to F2.8

The longest prime there is a 400mm F2.8

The area where pentax has a "fast lens deficiency" is in their wide primes.
Well I own the Pentax-A 50mm 1.2, and it is very nice, a bit low contrast wide-open. But is NOT a AutoFocus lens, and I am going to use more and more AutoFocus(because I shot at parties sometimes, with very bad lightning).

The SMC Pentax-FA* 85mm F1.4 [IF] is NOT available anymore, so is not relevant.

The SMC Pentax-M 35mm F1.4 is NOT a AutoFocus lens and also not in production, so not relevant.

SMC/S-M-C/Super/Auto-Takumar 55mm F1.8 and S-M-C/Auto Takumar 85mm F1.8, are both ManualFocus, not in production so NOT relevant.

SMC Pentax-A* 135mm F1.8 also not Autofocus, not in production....mmm same story...

SMC Pentax 55mm F1.8 not in production no AutoFocus...mmm again same story.

Aaah and that's it ?
Not real equivalents isn't it ?


I know the 31mm LTD 1.8, I listed it also
And I also know about de 77 LTD 1.8, but it is not any better as the Canon EF 85 1.8 USM, which is very cheap!


QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
and for 200 and 300 they are coming in a few months.
Well that means that those lenses are right now not available, and that's counts here

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
Priyantha - Pentax does have equivalents for some of the lenses in very close focal lenghts and also for the zooms as-well the 16-35 and 17-55 will have the DA*16-50, 24-70 you can get Sigma or Tamron's just as fast.
Well the DA* 16-50 is not in production yet so we can't tell how good or bad it is(the Tokina version didn't surprise me in a positive way).
And about 24-70...the Sigma and Tamron versions are by far not as good as the Canon 24-70 2.8L and like the Nikkor 24-70 2.8, by far !

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
50-135 is the new 70-200 with Pentax - they decided that since they are sticking to APS-C that with the crop factor you get the same focal lenghts as a 70-200 mounted on a full frame like the 5D - I both agree and disagree with Pentax's decision on this.
Well the long end of the 50-135 is 135 and not 200 like the Canon and Nikon variants, and I am going miss that length I think ! I have used many times a 70-200 on a dSLR and it is a really nice focallength zoom.

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
THe 60-250 f/4 is an awesome range IMO and I would take this over a regular 70-200 f/4 and even f/2.8.
The 60-250 F4 can be very very nice, the range is very nice indeed. I am looking forward, and I am very interested in the quality it produces.
But no, it can not replace a F2.8 lens, not only because the speed but also because the DOF advantage from the F2.8 lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
If you want all that Canon glass its easy - sell your gear and go buy a Canon. You seem to love talking about them often in both forums so why not just make yourself happy if Pentax don't offer what you want? Im not being cheeky or anything - I am just asking why you are sticking with Pentax if they don't have the type of lenses you are looking for?
Well I like the Canon glass, but not really the bodies. And I like the Pentax bodies, AND I like the Pentax glass which is available and which I own(no AF lenses yet, I am waiting for the DA* lenses).
Maybe I will buy also a Canon body, but that is maybe for the future, I like the Pentax brand and their camera too much


QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
Of course with the re-introduction of all this fast * glass Pentax is definetely heading in the right directiona and I for one will be buying the 16-50, 60-250 and 55 primes to add to my 10-17 fisheye, DA21,FA31, FA50 and DFA100 lenses. Even as it is now because of SR the 18-55, 50-200 kit I can even live with (and have been for the past 8 months with some excellent photos from both).
Yes the re-introduction of all the old * lenses would be great But they aren't going to that
They are going to introduce newish * glass jointly development with Tokina(not a bad partner tough) but the last review from the 50-135 and 16-50 Tokina version aren't that impressive yet
But I heard that Pentax is re-design some part from Roland Mambo(but is it true ?) so my hope is on that.

The new 60-250 is very tempting ! Also the 55 prime looks like it is going to be a nice lens(if the performance is good wide-open).
The DA21 pancake and DA40 and DA70 pancakes are also nice lenses, not realy fast though but they are small and that is also something worth.
The 10-17 fish-eye looks very nice, only it is a CA monster.
The DFA 100 Macro wasn't that impressive to me in the photozone test, the build quality looks very bad and it is now really nice that it does extend that much
SR is a nice, now what do I say ? I mean a really nice feature of the K100D and the K10D I really like it and I am used to it right now.
07-12-2007, 12:50 PM   #25
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second part here, because of the maximum images used in one post

QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
He/she didn't forget them... they're not currently available new. They are available through eBay or other second hand sources if you can find them. A, F and FA are the only ones that retain full metering ability without having to be stopped down, and the amount of second-hand A, F and FA lenses going around now is not many (with the exception of 50mm primes and slow cheap zooms).
Yes I didn't forget them I am a he by the way(my name is a bit unknown )
Yes those lenses are not available new, and they are sometimes available at EBay, but mostly are very old M lenses or A lenses, not much F(*) or FA(*) lenses.


QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
You can take the 35mm f/2 off that list. Stores are selling their last and not getting any more. Samsung now have that lens, and at least in the UK they charge more for it.
Aah great ....


QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
Same on the 70-200 f/2.8. There are currently no third-party options available new because Sigma discontinued theirs and didn't bother to make the new one in K mount. As for Pentax's own nearest offering of 50-135mm... well, see the first posts of this thread. I too am a long-time Pentax user and don't make negative posts just for fun... but whenever you do make criticisms, 'more loyal' Pentaxians are always prepared to tell us why we don't need a certain lens and why we should be happy to wait until who-knows-when for those lenses.
Yes that's exactly what I mean No Pentax genuine 70/80-200 F2.8. Also no new available third-party 70/80-200 F2.8 available(I prefer a Pentax genuine!) either.
And the 50-135 is not ready right now
I understand that you are a long-time Pentax user
I am also a bit long-time user(not very because of my age of 21 ), but since I shoot photo's it was always with a Pentax ME from my parents.
After that I bought a Nikon D70, because the Pentax *ist D wasn't good available here in the Netherlands at that time
Now I am a Pentax K10D user, and use all my old lovely primes from the ME and my *new* MX and some primes I bought after that.
And yes I did a criticism, but I try to be a positive criticiser because I still like the brand
But I don't understand those 'more loyal Pentaxians' who tell me that we don't need a certain lens, and why we should be happy to wait for the new lenses which are coming at a time who nobody knows.


QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
Sorry but what you have there is a list of fast primes that Pentax has made... not a list of fast primes that are currently available. For example good luck finding the 85mm f/1.8 FA, or the 135mm f/1.8... or affording to be the winning bidder if one eventually turns up on eBay.
uhu just what I mean



QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
I know a lot of folks like SR. I find it useful in certain situations. But it's not a tripod and it's not a faster lens. SR does not make a lens faster, it just means that you can get away with shooting hand-held at slower shutter speeds... there are other purposes for a fast lens.
Yes SR is a nice feature, but the in-lens Stabilisation is better it gives you more stops advantage. And yes it is a bit more expensive
But I like the SR. Also as you state, it doesn't make your lens any faster, If I want to shoot a fast running guy in a Gym with bad lightning, SR is not going to help me than.


QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
I wonder if Pentax should use that in their advertising... great slogan for a business: "Don't see what you like? Get lost then!" as for why someone who sticks with Pentax would complain about lenses... maybe when they started investing in Pentax it seemed that they did have the choice of lenses they were looking for? Once you are invested in a system, you're going to lose a fair amount of money switching to another... and that's even if you like the alternatives! Talking about the range of lenses another company has is not the same as saying you would rather have that system. It should be possible to use and like a system but also make criticisms when you feel they need to be made.
Well I don't think it is very positive advertisement
07-12-2007, 01:44 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
(snip) I guess I am simply incompetent at finding lenses (snip) those lenses should not be advertised as if they were part of the normal range with consequent availability (snip) Pentax UK (snip) And your need to defend Pentax against criticism is touching (snip) I buy photographic equipment so that I can take photographs. If you buy it purely out of philantropy and love for the company, good for you (snip) I live in the present rather than at some unspecified point in the future (snip)

Look, I'm truly sorry you can't find the lenses you want, but I'm not so much trying to defend Pentax as trying to explain the realities of business. Pentax simply does not have the financial resources of either Canon or Nikon at the moment. As such, Pentax is forced to adopt a difference business strategy. Part of that is attempting to sell every lens produced rather than buying back excess stock and dumping it for a loss. That clearly means there will be lenses listed on their web site and elsewhere you may not be able to find yourself. That's reality, not a defense.

You're on a rampage at the moment, ignoring those realities and doing your best to skirt around my explination of them. I tried to lighten up that rampage by responding to your invitation for analysis when you asked about overreacting and being paranoid. That was obviously a mistake, for which I now apologize. You're neither self-centered nor shortsighted, just steamed enough to ignore everything but your own self-induced anger.

I, on the other hand, can't identify with that anger. I found lenses to satisfy my needs, so I'm not sitting around wringing my hands in anticipation of the latest and getting angry when it isn't available this very minute. When, or even if, those new lenses come, I'll consider them then. In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy the lenses I have. By the way, I also know you didn't want to hear that, but it's reality as well.

stewart
07-12-2007, 02:04 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote

Pentax has plenty fast primes and not only that with the newer cameras with SR all of these primes are stabilized + Canon or Nikon dont offer any fast glass (faster than f/2.8) with stabilization. Thats not just a minor advantage but a huge one for me.

Also what do you consider fast? f/2.8 and faster what about when it can take advantage of SR?
Nikon makes a 200mm f2 with VR. There are a few Nikon lenses with VR that are f2.8 and some Canon lenses with IS that are f2.8.

Most of the shorter, fixed focal length lenses from both Nikon and Canon do not have shake reduction. My guess is that these lenses are mostly older designs, don't sell in large quantities, and there isn't much demand for the shake reduction features in these products. In the range from wide angle to short/medium telephoto, the zooms will outsell fixed focal length lenses by a huge margin. And obviously shake reduction has far more utility for longer lenses.

Pentax has a bit of a niche market in fixed focal length lenses, and that niche is probably over-represented in Internet forums such as this one. There have been some new fixed focal length lenses from various manufacturers in the past two years, such as the Carl Zeiss lenses, the Canon 50mm f1.2, the new Nikon 105mm Macro (with VR!), etc. But these are specialty items that sell in very small volume as compared to the consumer zooms. Pentax really needs to get their new zooms to market if they want to survive.

For me, shake reduction is a feature with limited usefulness. I have a steady hand and get, at most, 1 or 2 stops improvement with the SR in my K10D. These days shake reduction seems to be more of a bullet point in an ad or sales brochure rather than something that is a huge benefit. It is useful on rare occasions, but I would prefer low noise at high ISO to help reduce blur (due to subject movement) with a higher shutter speed. I frequently use a tripod to deal with camera shake, but SR (or a tripod) won't prevent blur from a flower blowing in the wind or from the kids running at top speed in a soccer game.
07-12-2007, 03:00 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Look, I'm truly sorry you can't find the lenses you want, but I'm not so much trying to defend Pentax as trying to explain the realities of business. Pentax simply does not have the financial resources of either Canon or Nikon at the moment. As such, Pentax is forced to adopt a difference business strategy. Part of that is attempting to sell every lens produced rather than buying back excess stock and dumping it for a loss. That clearly means there will be lenses listed on their web site and elsewhere you may not be able to find yourself. That's reality, not a defense.
I'm sorry, but if it's an undeniable reality, why do all other companies not follow the same policy? Do Sony currently list every lens that Minolta previously made?

Also I am not on a rampage. I am trying to make what I perceive as valid criticisms. I'm not angry, I'm disappointed. I'm not ignoring your "realities"... I just disagree that they are such - see the last paragraph. I'm not trying to skirt around your explanation - that would imply that you are the source of all wisdom and my poor head can't take it... I hear your explanation, I just disagree with it.

By the way, I'm glad you think you know what I want or don't want to hear... but it doesn't bother me that you found lenses to satisfy your needs... it only bothers me that people who are happy with the system can't seem to understand why everyone else isn't entirely happy... ie for you it has to be explained away as some kind of outburst of rage rather than being what it is - understandable disappointment. I am not complaining because the latest lens is not available "this very minute"... I have been complaining because I believe lens availability overall has got worse... because the 'latest' lenses have been delayed again... and, a point which has been forgotten since about the first page - because of the difficulty of getting any information out of the company.

If you want to talk about my "anger" instead of the subject, fine - I won't turn down the offer of free therapy
07-12-2007, 04:50 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
I'm sorry, but if it's an undeniable reality, why do all other companies not follow the same policy? (snip)

My friend, I don't intend to get into a long-winded debate about this. I've tried my best to explain the situation. If you disagree with that explination, nothing further can be said by me to change your mind. Take care.

stewart
07-12-2007, 05:11 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
My friend, I don't intend to get into a long-winded debate about this. I've tried my best to explain the situation. If you disagree with that explination, nothing further can be said by me to change your mind. Take care.
Likewise. No point in arguing for the sake of arguing. I mean no disrespect to anyone and hope no offence is taken by what I say or how I say it. If I come across as combative it's probably because I'm battle-worn from seeing endless arguments about every topic on lesser forums... Glad we can agree to disagree here - the inherent reasonableness of the Pentax user maybe
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