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07-11-2007, 12:38 PM   #1
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When are the DA* lenses available?

The Pentax UK web site now has details of the DA* lenses, but no details of when they are available. I have seen on the US web site that you can now buy them, but no details in Europe. Does anyone know when and prices?

07-11-2007, 12:55 PM   #2
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They've been delayed again; Pentax UK does not expect deliveries until late August, so we won't get any until late August or early September (assuming there isn't another delay)... I doubt you will see them much sooner in the US.
07-11-2007, 03:18 PM   #3
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ZaphodB - do you have details on this recent delay, and also what this is doing to the rest of the lens roadmap? I've been looking for news myself, but these companies really suck at giving people details on what's going on. I don't mind waiting for a great product, but if they were just open about what's going on, it would be awesome. :-) 20 years ago this may have been okay, but this is the era of blogs. I want info NOW. (j/k)
07-11-2007, 05:40 PM   #4
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Hey Folks,

I was just talking to one of my buddies about the state of the Pentax lenses in general and this delay is pretty sad. He made the interesting point that Pentax has one of the nicer bodies on the market (he's a 5d user incidentally) but a lack of quality glass to put in front of it. One could argue this is opposite Canon, who is currently selling some "relatively" older bodies with a lot of great glass available.

I think the lack of info makes it worse. Also making it worse: the old star series lenses are still listed on the Pentax website as though they're somehow available. When was the last time they actually made a 80-200* 2.8?

So I'm looking forward to the new lenses, because the K10 is really a great body with almost anything in front of it (even my old Sigma filtermatic takes nice shots on it). With some high quality new * lenses, it should really be a fantastic setup. It would be great if we knew what was going on though. The loyalists like me can take it even if it is frustrating, but it's not a great way to do business with anybody else.

Okay, I'll stop now. Everything's going to be fine. Take care
-Leland

07-11-2007, 06:17 PM   #5
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Leland - you're right. They are lacking in glass ATM. I've never before had a lack of glass for my film pentax bodies. I could always find what I needed with a little searching new or used, and used, there were tons of lenses, but thanks to the success of these new bodies that's not there any longer - plus the focal lenghts don't match up well, but that's something else.

I don't mind that they are taking their time - that's fine. But, I'm just getting a little tired of waiting without updates. And also, why did they stop manufacturing a lot of their old lenses before they had replacements? That's just a bad move altogether. :-)

Okay, I'm just a little frustrated at the moment. :-) I love their gear so much, but I'd really like a monthly update from them on the state of affairs. Could someone get in contact with Ned and suggest this? I don't want any insider or rumorish information. I just want updates on products that have already been disclosed.

If we all ask politely, maybe we'll get an answer. :-)
07-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ncallender Quote
ZaphodB - do you have details on this recent delay, and also what this is doing to the rest of the lens roadmap? I've been looking for news myself, but these companies really suck at giving people details on what's going on. I don't mind waiting for a great product, but if they were just open about what's going on, it would be awesome. :-) 20 years ago this may have been okay, but this is the era of blogs. I want info NOW. (j/k)
Sorry I have no inside info or special access, only what I got from Pentax UK in their e-mail response, which is that they don't have a date for the first shipment, but are "led to believe" that it will be in late August and that the lenses should therefore be in the shops late August or early September.

If you're looking for news... you won't find it. It's not published anywhere. I had to ask and it took them a week to respond... I found out from the UK importer (Intro2020) at the start of that week - I called and they told me - but I waited a week to hear it from the company itself. You're right... optics companies suck at telling us what's happening. This applies to other optics companies too, not only Pentax... often the problem seems to be getting information "from Japan", as if Japan were another planet... they need better communication; communication within the company and between the company and the customer. Naturally they can advertise new products, not a problem... but when there's a delay or a postponement, will they admit it without you pressing them? Of course not... I am amazed that companies get away with this... but they do because we let them. As I said, it's not only Pentax... but is it too much to hope that Pentax would set a good example?


QuoteOriginally posted by lineswest Quote
I was just talking to one of my buddies about the state of the Pentax lenses in general and this delay is pretty sad. He made the interesting point that Pentax has one of the nicer bodies on the market (he's a 5d user incidentally) but a lack of quality glass to put in front of it. One could argue this is opposite Canon, who is currently selling some "relatively" older bodies with a lot of great glass available.
Yep... the K10d is a truly great camera for the money. Now if we could actually get more lenses that make the most of it (like some SDM ones perhaps?). I know it's blasphemy to discuss what C**** or N**** are doing, but they continue to sell lenses from their 35mm days, and their customers benefit... as we would benefit if we could buy some of those great FA lenses.

... also from what I see the second-hand market seems to be drying up. Good A, F, or FA glass is getting very hard to come by, if you want anything other than a 50mm prime or a slow zoom...

... and then there's the third-party situation. Sigma and Tamron do make several for Pentax, but some of their best lenses are not made for the K-mount. Tokina is even worse; we can't buy them anymore since they have an agreement with Pentax... meanwhile C**** and N**** users can continue to benefit!

I don't doubt the quality of current DA glass is great, but it's not for everyone and the range has limitations. Since the two DA* zooms are being delayed again and there's no way of knowing if or when the designs on the 'road map' will be realised, I can't help thinking it would be good if we could get our hands on more FA lenses... they don't have to be redesigned as D-FA lenses or anything, but having those older designs available again would at least fill the gap until we hopefully start to see some of the 'road map' become reality.

QuoteOriginally posted by lineswest Quote
I think the lack of info makes it worse. Also making it worse: the old star series lenses are still listed on the Pentax website as though they're somehow available.
Absolutely. It's not only the old star series but loads of FA and A lenses listed on the US site. I've pointed this out a couple of times on this and other forums. It's dishonest. Overreacting? Paranoid? If you think it's innocent and they've simply forgotten to remove the listings from the site, ask yourself why they can put up info for the K100D-Super so quickly? Just like they'll advertise lenses but won't announce when those lenses are delayed... they keep those lenses listed on the site simply to make the range look bigger than it is. On the Pentax lens brochures (which list DA and DFA lenses only) they also have cover shots which include FA lenses that you will never be able to buy, for exactly the same reason. By the way I don't like to think of Pentax doing things like this, so if you know a more innocent explanation, I'd love to hear it.

As for looking forward to high quality new lenses... I agree, but I can only look forward so far ... what really concerns me is that we continue to wait while these new DA* lenses are delayed again... meanwhile the Tokina version is out there getting reviewed! I am also concerned because it seems like all our faith now is in two lenses which aren't even completely designed by Pentax... in fact I would be reassured if I knew that any of the optical formula was designed by Pentax as opposed to Tokina, but of course that information, like most information, isn't forthcoming. By the way I like Tokina too, but I would also like to know for sure that Pentax doesn't have to rely on a third-party for its high-end glass.

Sorry for another rant. I can take the wait too, just about, because I am a loyalist... but loyalty gets tested sometimes, and now is one of those times. Like you, I would be a lot more confident (and be making a lot less posts like this) if the company would be more open (or even slightly open) about what's going on in the post-Hoya world of Pentax.
07-12-2007, 12:25 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
(snip) It's not only the old star series but loads of FA and A lenses listed on the US site. I've pointed this out a couple of times on this and other forums. It's dishonest. Overreacting? Paranoid? If you think it's innocent and they've simply forgotten to remove the listings from the site, ask yourself why they can put up info for the K100D-Super so quickly? Just like they'll advertise lenses but won't announce when those lenses are delayed... they keep those lenses listed on the site simply to make the range look bigger than it is. On the Pentax lens brochures (which list DA and DFA lenses only) they also have cover shots which include FA lenses that you will never be able to buy, for exactly the same reason. By the way I don't like to think of Pentax doing things like this, so if you know a more innocent explanation, I'd love to hear it.

Very simple. Your own inability to find those lenses does not mean those lenses don't potentially exist somewhere. Pentax has an implied obligation (from good business sense alone) to continue to list/market those lenses as long as a single dealer anywhere has, or possibly has, those lenses on a store shelf, in a catalog, or on a web site. Otherwise, dealers could perhaps lose some or all of the money invested in those lenses, which might hurt Pentax's business relationship with those dealers - something Pentax would clearly not want to do if the company intends to maintain what little market presence it has.

Why doesn't Pentax simply buy back excess dealer stock and dump it through Asian discount joints like Nikon and Canon do? Mainly because Pentax, with it's tighter budget, can't afford to, not both that and eventually deliver those fancy new lenses so many are looking forward to.

So, not only are you overreacting and paranoid, you're a little too self-centered and short-sighted as well.

stewart

Last edited by stewart_photo; 07-12-2007 at 02:19 AM. Reason: clarification and spelling
07-12-2007, 02:55 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Very simple. Your own inability to find those lenses does not mean those lenses don't potentially exist somewhere. Pentax has an implied obligation (from good business sense alone) to continue to list/market those lenses as long as a single dealer anywhere has, or possibly has, those lenses on a store shelf, in a catalog, or on a web site. Otherwise, dealers could perhaps lose some or all of the money invested in those lenses, which might hurt Pentax's business relationship with those dealers - something Pentax would clearly not want to do if the company intends to maintain what little market presence it has.
Hehe... yes I guess I am simply incompetent at finding lenses. Everyone else is obviously having no trouble at all getting their hands on an FA 20mm F2.8, FA 24mm F2.0, FA 28mm F2.8, P-A 15mm F35, P-A 20mm F2.8, FA 80-200mm F2.8, FA 250-600mm F5.6 ED, FA 200mm F4.0 ED, new from dealers... sure they're all over the place. Oh wait, no, that's not true. Sorry but I can't agree with you at all... Good business sense? Good business sense dictates that you don't advertise products to customers that they cannot buy. Those lenses... if you are very, very lucky, you may be able to find a single one in one shop somewhere or order one from a shop in Japan... that does not equate to "availability" and those lenses should not be advertised as if they were part of the normal range with consequent availability...

Pentax UK obviously don't have "good business sense", since they only advertise available lenses... I guess you should write to them and explain their "obligation" to that one shop still selling the lenses, and how it hurts their relationship with that one shop

QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Mainly because Pentax, with it's tighter budget, can't afford to, not both that and eventually deliver those fancy new lenses so many are looking forward to.
OK, well in that case I'm glad they've obviously decided to focus on getting that fancy new glass to us, because as a result they've done a great job of getting those new lenses on the shelves im time... oh wait...

QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
So, not only are you overreacting and paranoid, you're a little too self-centered and short-sighted as well.
And your need to defend Pentax against criticism is touching

Self-centred? Yes. I buy photographic equipment so that I can take photographs. If you buy it purely out of philantropy and love for the company, good for you, but I suspect more people are "self-centred" and would quite like to get their hands on the lenses they want or at least be given the slightest idea of when they can.

Short-sighted? Well I guess I am, because I live in the present rather than at some unspecified point in the future. Calling me short-sighted is a nice way to completely dismiss all the points I made about lens availability, delays, communication... but if I am short-sighted, how exactly are you long-sighted? Because you have a 'road map' to look at?

07-12-2007, 03:02 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by lineswest Quote
Hey Folks,

I was just talking to one of my buddies about the state of the Pentax lenses in general and this delay is pretty sad. He made the interesting point that Pentax has one of the nicer bodies on the market (he's a 5d user incidentally) but a lack of quality glass to put in front of it. One could argue this is opposite Canon, who is currently selling some "relatively" older bodies with a lot of great glass available.

I think the lack of info makes it worse. Also making it worse: the old star series lenses are still listed on the Pentax website as though they're somehow available. When was the last time they actually made a 80-200* 2.8?

So I'm looking forward to the new lenses, because the K10 is really a great body with almost anything in front of it (even my old Sigma filtermatic takes nice shots on it). With some high quality new * lenses, it should really be a fantastic setup. It would be great if we knew what was going on though. The loyalists like me can take it even if it is frustrating, but it's not a great way to do business with anybody else.

Okay, I'll stop now. Everything's going to be fine. Take care
-Leland


Hehe, of course your Canon friend thinks there are no good lenses - he's a Canon user - they don't really understand the concept of a prime lens. The Limited's are superb and the 2 WA zoom lenses 12-24 and 16-45 are also excellent. With the new DA* zooms Pentax will have 16-50, 50-135, 60-250, 35, 55, 200 and 300mm covered all with SDM. Then the more mid/lower grade DA17-70 and DA55-300 will come as-well for the more budget concious. That's not bad at all and add in some of the best auto focus lenses ever made like the FA31 and FA77 limited and of course the DA Limited Pancakes and Pentax will have a whole host of superb glass available. That's a lot of lenses Pentax is planning to release - so while they may have been slow in the past few years after switching to digital they are pratically going all out in 2007/2008 and planning on doing major catch up as far as Zoom and Tele lenses are concerned - in the WA to Mod-Tele line-up (ie.14mm to 100mm) Pentax has a lot of superb prime lenses already available and the excellent zooms at the wide-end.
07-12-2007, 03:15 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
Hehe, of course your Canon friend thinks there are no good lenses - he's a Canon user - they don't really understand the concept of a prime lens.
Er, except for those fast primes they sell... you know, like the ones which Pentax discontinued and are no longer available except for the 50mm and the expensive Limiteds...

QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
The Limited's are superb and the 2 WA zoom lenses 12-24 and 16-45 are also excellent. With the new DA* zooms Pentax will have 16-50, 50-135, 60-250, 35, 55, 200 and 300mm covered all with SDM. Then the more mid/lower grade DA17-70 and DA55-300 will come as-well for the more budget concious. That's not bad at all and add in some of the best auto focus lenses ever made like the FA31 and FA77 limited and of course the DA Limited Pancakes and Pentax will have a whole host of superb glass available. That's a lot of lenses Pentax is planning to release - so while they may have been slow in the past few years after switching to digital they are pratically going all out in 2007/2008 and planning on doing major catch up as far as Zoom and Tele lenses are concerned - in the WA to Mod-Tele line-up (ie.14mm to 100mm) Pentax has a lot of superb prime lenses already available and the excellent zooms at the wide-end.
Well we hope they are going all-out in 2007/2008... but what is on a 'road map' is not 100% guaranteed to happen and certainly not guaranteed to happen when they say it will... anyway so far people have been saying not that the range will be lacking in the future but that it's lacking now.
07-12-2007, 06:37 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
Hehe, of course your Canon friend thinks there are no good lenses - he's a Canon user - they don't really understand the concept of a prime lens. The Limited's are superb and the 2 WA zoom lenses 12-24 and 16-45 are also excellent. With the new DA* zooms Pentax will have 16-50, 50-135, 60-250, 35, 55, 200 and 300mm covered all with SDM. Then the more mid/lower grade DA17-70 and DA55-300 will come as-well for the more budget concious. That's not bad at all and add in some of the best auto focus lenses ever made like the FA31 and FA77 limited and of course the DA Limited Pancakes and Pentax will have a whole host of superb glass available. That's a lot of lenses Pentax is planning to release - so while they may have been slow in the past few years after switching to digital they are pratically going all out in 2007/2008 and planning on doing major catch up as far as Zoom and Tele lenses are concerned - in the WA to Mod-Tele line-up (ie.14mm to 100mm) Pentax has a lot of superb prime lenses already available and the excellent zooms at the wide-end.
While I think a lot of canon users have an aversion to primes, Canon does actually sell quite a complete set of very fast primes at reasonable (maybe) prices. Sure, they are left over from the film days, but if you are looking for some very fast glass, you have to admit that the pentax line is and will be lacking even once they finish their published roadmap.

Where pentax is missing now is in fast glass, especially on the moderate wide side. The 31mm isn't wide any longer, and that's the only fast glass currently available new (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Anyway, it doesn't matter - if I really need the very fastest, I'll just buy another body to put them on - no biggie. I generally like most everything that pentax makes and they will have a small but reasonable lineup in the next 1-2 years, but it's the mentality of the company that is frustrating.

Here's an example of another company - Apple. Among companies that sell consumer products, a great tactic is to keep product details and new announcements quiet through the product development phase until it's all ready to hit the market. Then you time the launch with something like Christmas, you spend huge amounts on a marketing blitz, and you bet the campaign on people running out and buying on impulse (or for the holidays, but it's almost the same).

Then, people would enjoy their product, and you would go back to secretly developing a new version, keep everyone in suspense, and have them build anticipation until the next big release. It's a 'let's surprise everyone' mentality.

This works for stuff that is consumer oriented. But once the prices go a little beyond 'throwawayable', people need a little plan in advance, and once they start planning, they don't like to be let down with delays. Apple's iPhone launch was brilliant in this regard. They announced the product 6+ months ahead of launch, people started saving the crazy $500 and didn't spend it on competing products, and when it came time to launch, you could go into every apple store and look at one, play with it, see how cool it was, and buy it. Done.

Pentax - they release the roadmap and promptly discontinue most of their current lineup. Then they set the release date for the lenses, people save up, anticipate, and I assume keep some from switching and also get some to buying into the k10d. Then the release date comes - no glass. Instead of a direct explanation from the company, news on the advancements, etc, there's nothing. No real news.

People call - no real updates, people grumble, no updates. People post on forums, no updates (you would think their engineers would be reading these forums, right?) I can understand why they don't want to be open prior to the initial release date, but once that's past, they should just be frank with their customers, state the problem, keep the news flowing on the developments, and get it done. After all, that would make most of us happy. We could at least see progress.

My 0.02. I've actually thought about trying to get a job at pentax just so I could get the inside scoop!!! ha!
07-12-2007, 07:20 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
Er, except for those fast primes they sell... you know, like the ones which Pentax discontinued and are no longer available except for the 50mm and the expensive Limiteds...
You're fooling yourself if you think you're going to get quality Canon glass for less than equivalent Pentax lenses. Canon makes great lenses, but the really good ones certainly aren't cheap.

BTW I agree with you that Pentax needs to take down the no longer available lenses or start making and selling them. They also need to hurry up with several of the lenses on the roadmap to shut the naysayers up.
07-12-2007, 07:59 AM   #13
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Well...my question to all who says 'Pentax has plenty fast primes...
Now I can only count a couple.
I count....
Pentax FA 77 LTD 1.8
Pentax FA 31 LTD 1.8
Pentax FA 50 1.4
Pentax FA 35 2.0
Pentax DA 14 2.8
Pentax DA 40 2.8 LTD(not realy fast for this focal length ! but it is a pancake so it is forgiveable)
Pentax DA 70 2.8 LTD(same story as the 40 LTD)
Pentax FA 43 1.9(not any more in the shops ?)

well en that is it...no long lenses which are realy fast. And I am not speaking about fast zooms, because there aren't fast zooms.

Now my big question to all Where are those equivalents of the lenses listed here below from the Canon line-up, which I can buy if I want.

Let's start with those very vast primes !

Where is the Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 100mm f/2 USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 135mm f/2L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF lens 300mm 2.8L IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 400mm f/2.8 L IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF lens 500mm 4.0L IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF Lens 400mm 2.8L IS USM equivalent ?

And now what about those fast zooms ?

Where is the Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM(not really fast but fairly cheap and very good optical and build) equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF100-400mm 4.5-5.6 L IS USM(not really fast but it is very good) equivalent ?

Well...they aren't there !
Nikon DO have those equivalents(yes not everyone but the most, and they have also lenses which Canon doesn't have).

Well this is not a flame to Pentax I am a loyal Pentax user and I am enoying my K10D when I am working with it.
But I have to get a fast standard zoom like a 16-35 2.8 and a fast tele like a 70-200 2.8. When I am working with my equipment I thinks sometimes, a if I had that lens I could have taken that picture...
07-12-2007, 08:21 AM   #14
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you forgot the k/m/a/f series of lenses.
07-12-2007, 08:50 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well...my question to all who says 'Pentax has plenty fast primes...
Now I can only count a couple.
I count....
Pentax FA 77 LTD 1.8
Pentax FA 31 LTD 1.8
Pentax FA 50 1.4
Pentax FA 35 2.0
Pentax DA 14 2.8
Pentax DA 40 2.8 LTD(not realy fast for this focal length ! but it is a pancake so it is forgiveable)
Pentax DA 70 2.8 LTD(same story as the 40 LTD)
Pentax FA 43 1.9(not any more in the shops ?)

well en that is it...no long lenses which are realy fast. And I am not speaking about fast zooms, because there aren't fast zooms.

Now my big question to all Where are those equivalents of the lenses listed here below from the Canon line-up, which I can buy if I want.

Let's start with those very vast primes !

Where is the Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 100mm f/2 USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 135mm f/2L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF lens 300mm 2.8L IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 400mm f/2.8 L IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF lens 500mm 4.0L IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF Lens 400mm 2.8L IS USM equivalent ?

And now what about those fast zooms ?

Where is the Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM(not really fast but fairly cheap and very good optical and build) equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM equivalent ?
Where is the Canon EF100-400mm 4.5-5.6 L IS USM(not really fast but it is very good) equivalent ?

Well...they aren't there !
Nikon DO have those equivalents(yes not everyone but the most, and they have also lenses which Canon doesn't have).

Well this is not a flame to Pentax I am a loyal Pentax user and I am enoying my K10D when I am working with it.
But I have to get a fast standard zoom like a 16-35 2.8 and a fast tele like a 70-200 2.8. When I am working with my equipment I thinks sometimes, a if I had that lens I could have taken that picture...
SMC Pentax-A 50mm F1.2
SMC Pentax-FA 50mm F1.4
SMC Pentax-FA* 85mm F1.4 [IF]
SMC Pentax-M 35mm F1.4
SMC Pentax-FA 50mm F1.7
SMC/S-M-C/Super/Auto-Takumar 55mm F1.8
S-M-C/Auto Takumar 85mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited
SMC Pentax-A* 135mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited
SMC Pentax 55mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-FA 43mm F1.9 Limited

And you can go here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/showcat.php?cat=all&stype=1&si=F2

To see all lenses that are F2 to F2.8

The longest prime there is a 400mm F2.8

The area where pentax has a "fast lens deficiency" is in their wide primes.
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