hoya Pro1 vs S-HMC filters

Keebler · 03-29-2010, 07:21 AM

Hi again folks,

I'm trying to learn so much that I've stressed myself out trying to find answers

i'm looking at buying the DA14 (if you've seen my other post). Looks like a great lens. A bit concerned about the size carrying around, but I can't really afford to spend more (plus I do like the wide angle).

Which leads to me to the question of a filter. I certainly don't want to spend $650 or so and NOT put a filter on it. Especially considering I'll be using it outside alot for landscapes etc..

I did run a search in this forum, but there were some older threads and one had a promising link, but it doesn't work anymore

Anything on Google is older and doesn't contain anything specific.

I can't remember which one it is, but one of the Hoya filters is $130'ish and the other is (gulp) $250'ish.

I'm still a noob at all of this, but I do understand the better filters (supposedly) let in more light. Also, it appears that both the Pro1 and S-HMC filters are multi-coated.

Cost is a bit of a concern, but on the same side, I'm not against buying the 'perfect' filter for a $600 + lens to maximize the camera's ability (then the rest is up to me).

btw, I should mention that it's the circular polarizer I'm after.

Cheers,
Keebler

JeffJS · 03-29-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Keebler

Hi again folks,

I'm trying to learn so much that I've stressed myself out trying to find answers

i'm looking at buying the DA14 (if you've seen my other post). Looks like a great lens. A bit concerned about the size carrying around, but I can't really afford to spend more (plus I do like the wide angle).

Which leads to me to the question of a filter. I certainly don't want to spend $650 or so and NOT put a filter on it. Especially considering I'll be using it outside alot for landscapes etc..

I did run a search in this forum, but there were some older threads and one had a promising link, but it doesn't work anymore

Anything on Google is older and doesn't contain anything specific.

I can't remember which one it is, but one of the Hoya filters is $130'ish and the other is (gulp) $250'ish.

I'm still a noob at all of this, but I do understand the better filters (supposedly) let in more light. Also, it appears that both the Pro1 and S-HMC filters are multi-coated.

Cost is a bit of a concern, but on the same side, I'm not against buying the 'perfect' filter for a $600 + lens to maximize the camera's ability (then the rest is up to me).

btw, I should mention that it's the circular polarizer I'm after.

Cheers,
Keebler

As a long time proponent of filters for protection and now that I've made this decision for myself, I have to ask. Why would you spend $650 for a lens and put a filter in front of it? Unless you are talking about polarizers or ND filters, not needed. FWIW, I use to have the Hoya Digital Pro1 UV filters on my DA* zooms and in some situations, they actually caused ghosting (some might call it flare). I would save the UV money and put it some place else.

Keebler · 03-29-2010, 07:51 AM

that's a good question Jeff and something I've thought about, but it's come down to 2 things:

1. I only started in on the DSLR world a few years ago and put filters on my lens for lens protection as I taught myself how to be cautious with the camera. May sound backwards, but I've only started to take the filters off inside (although I keep the lens hood on - hey, I have 2 kids and the amount of crashing into me and throwing things they do, it's paramount

2. I won't use the camera outside without the UV polarizer (or, I should say on always on sunny days - cloudy days, it depends). The difference in seeing the dark blues rather than a lightened sky (with no polarizer) is a home run for me. I can completely see the difference in the photographs. Same with water shots. I think they're critical imho (but then again, maybe it's because I'm not as experienced to make the proper changes to the settings?)

Ira · 03-29-2010, 07:51 AM

I can definitely see you wanting to use a polarizing filter with this lens, but you want to be able to easily rotate them to refract the light to best advantage. So this creates a little bit of work with a standard screw-in, unlike the Cokin system, where the polarizer drops into the slot in the holder and freely rotates.

The thing is, you're not going to want to use a polarizer half the time, so depending on which type you go for, you're going to be removing it, losing the protection you think the filter is giving your expensive lens.

Finally, I don't know how the Cokin behaves with a 14mm on a DSLR, so I would think you would need the larger Z series here and not the P:

COKIN Creative System - The Holder System - Standard & Pro Holder

Ira · 03-29-2010, 07:54 AM

What's the filter diameter on the 14?

xGene · 03-29-2010, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

As a long time proponent of filters for protection and now that I've made this decision for myself, I have to ask. Why would you spend $650 for a lens and put a filter in front of it? Unless you are talking about polarizers or ND filters, not needed. FWIW, I use to have the Hoya Digital Pro1 UV filters on my DA* zooms and in some situations, they actually caused ghosting (some might call it flare). I would save the UV money and put it some place else.

I wholeheartedly agree with Jeff on that one. Even if it is minimally so, ANY filter will alter negatively the IQ, especially of you have hot spots in the frame, albeit less so with multi-coated filters.
The ONLY filters I use are Polarizers. My experience with the Hoya Digital Pro 1 MC polarizer is not so good though, a couple of times, the internal "polarizing film" (no sure of that's the correct name) looked like it was detaching from the glass, although I understand this is sandwiched between two pieces of glass. From up close it looks like the edges are "curling" in the assembly. Now I can't say if it was affecting IQ, but it's a bummer when you pay big money for a 77mm so-to-say premium filter...

I have a couple of Rodenstock MC polarizers which seem to be much better quality, but they are hard to find and $$$$. It is however the only one I could find with a 49mm diameter, good for the 15mm ltd, 21mm ltd, etc...

Gene

xGene · 03-29-2010, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Ira

What's the filter diameter on the 14?

77mm ($$$$)

Erik · 03-29-2010, 08:01 AM

You should read this before buying a polarizer for a wide-angle lens:

Polarizers

Read the "Polarization and Wide Angle Lenses" section.

Keebler · 03-29-2010, 08:26 AM

thanks for all the replies folks.

Gene, I should have clarified that I do mean only a circular polarizer.

Erik, thanks for the link -I'll check that article out.

Cheers,
Keebler

JeffJS · 03-29-2010, 03:08 PM

Gene, I've seen that more than I care to (the curling film). Moreso and far more extreme than just the edges on older polarizers and in particular, Rolleiflex (TLR) polarizers. On those, it's fixable if you find another polarizer with the same size glass and swap it out but for the (high) price of the Rollei polarizer, it isn't worth messing with. Better to use an adapter and an aftermarket filter.

Keebler, I found a Heliopan 77mm circular polarizer on the bay about a year ago for under $50. Used of course. I think it works quite nicely with the DA14 but given the amount I actually use it, I'm glad I didn't pay $100s for it. The upside is that it also works (fits) with the DA*16-50 and the DA12-24. With adapters (that I haven't bought yet) it will also work with most of my other lenses. It isn't something I would leave on the camera however. Since the Heliopan is the only C Polarizer I own, I cannot comment on Hoya's units.

I completely understand the kid thing.. Charging at you as soon as they hear the shutter snap yelling Let Me SEE! Let Me SEE!!

I've learned to quickly flip the camera around so they can see the screen. I've also protected the LCD from the fingers with some of that protective film.

Good luck with it and enjoy your new lens.

Lodewijk · 03-30-2010, 10:02 AM

I have both the DA 14mm and a Hoya S-HMC polarizer and they are an excellent combination.
I wouldn't use the cokin system because a. it is very bulky and b. you cannot use the hood with it which is essential on the DA 14 especially with a polarizer. The hood has the nice polarizer window!

I never use UV filters even when near the sea, they are a waste of money and image quality.

btw you do get the darkening mentioned in the LL article with blue skies, see the pic below for an example shot with the combination. It can be lessened by not turning the ring to maximized polarization. I actually like the effect most of the time.

**BCtoad** · 03-30-2010, 10:37 AM

when I use my 12-24 16-50 200&300mm lenses I only use A Hoya protector filter, relatively inexpensive I believe around 65$ Canadian have had no problems with flair or ghosting a great investment.

Ira · 03-30-2010, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Lodewijk

I wouldn't use the cokin system because ...you cannot use the hood with it which is essential on the DA 14 especially with a polarizer.

Sure you can:

You actually snap inexpensive hood pieces right onto the holder, so you can make the hood as short or as long as you want.

One holder, one filter, a couple of hood segments and the appropriate filter ring and it works on every lens in your bag.

Lodewijk · 03-30-2010, 10:56 AM

Ok then that would be an option, but it would probably be too bulky for my taste, if you have to use a Z one and matching hood then using that on the FA 50 would lead to a weird combination

Come to think of it, if I would have to choose now I would buy a DA 15mm with 49mm polarizer, that combo is probably the same price or cheaper than the DA 14 and a 77mm polarizer, and the filter will fit on my other DA limited lenses and the FA 50.

The DA 14 is excellent but since I obtained some DA limiteds I really like small lenses

woof · 03-30-2010, 11:11 AM

Without second guessing your decision to use a filter, please be aware of the following findings:

UV filters test - Description of the results and summary - Lenstip.com

This is the order or the first and second place winners:

1. Hoya 72 mm HMC UV-0
1. (tie) Hoya 72 mm Pro1 Digital MC UV-0
2. Hoya 72 mm HMC Super UV-0

Note that the HMC UV(0) is actually MUCH less expensive than the Pro 1 Digital. I believe that the UV(0) is not made or generally not available any more, but that the UV(c) has replaced it. The manufacturing facility is different... UV(c) now made in the Philippines as opposed to UV(0) made in Japan. I am not going to argue this point or any other point here, I am just reporting facts.

By all means read the article and conclusions. In the end I found old stock UV(0). I do not use them much except in situations where a little additional protection is warranted... a windy day at the beach comes to mind. That saved me so cash to invest in proper Polarizers and ND filters.

Hope this helps. BTW, the results of the Circ. Polarizer tests are interesting as well. Polarizing filters test - Results and summary - Lenstip.com

woof

03-29-2010, 07:21 AM	#1
Keebler Guest	hoya Pro1 vs S-HMC filters Hi again folks, I'm trying to learn so much that I've stressed myself out trying to find answers i'm looking at buying the DA14 (if you've seen my other post). Looks like a great lens. A bit concerned about the size carrying around, but I can't really afford to spend more (plus I do like the wide angle). Which leads to me to the question of a filter. I certainly don't want to spend $650 or so and NOT put a filter on it. Especially considering I'll be using it outside alot for landscapes etc.. I did run a search in this forum, but there were some older threads and one had a promising link, but it doesn't work anymore Anything on Google is older and doesn't contain anything specific. I can't remember which one it is, but one of the Hoya filters is $130'ish and the other is (gulp) $250'ish. I'm still a noob at all of this, but I do understand the better filters (supposedly) let in more light. Also, it appears that both the Pro1 and S-HMC filters are multi-coated. Cost is a bit of a concern, but on the same side, I'm not against buying the 'perfect' filter for a $600 + lens to maximize the camera's ability (then the rest is up to me). btw, I should mention that it's the circular polarizer I'm after. Cheers, Keebler

03-30-2010, 10:02 AM	#11
Lodewijk Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texel/Groningen, Netherlands Posts: 41	I have both the DA 14mm and a Hoya S-HMC polarizer and they are an excellent combination. I wouldn't use the cokin system because a. it is very bulky and b. you cannot use the hood with it which is essential on the DA 14 especially with a polarizer. The hood has the nice polarizer window! I never use UV filters even when near the sea, they are a waste of money and image quality. btw you do get the darkening mentioned in the LL article with blue skies, see the pic below for an example shot with the combination. It can be lessened by not turning the ring to maximized polarization. I actually like the effect most of the time. Last edited by Lodewijk; 03-30-2010 at 10:13 AM.

03-30-2010, 10:56 AM	#14
Lodewijk Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texel/Groningen, Netherlands Posts: 41	Ok then that would be an option, but it would probably be too bulky for my taste, if you have to use a Z one and matching hood then using that on the FA 50 would lead to a weird combination Come to think of it, if I would have to choose now I would buy a DA 15mm with 49mm polarizer, that combo is probably the same price or cheaper than the DA 14 and a 77mm polarizer, and the filter will fit on my other DA limited lenses and the FA 50. The DA 14 is excellent but since I obtained some DA limiteds I really like small lenses Last edited by Lodewijk; 03-30-2010 at 11:05 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Hoya Pro1 Digital CPL and Protector filters, 62mm (Worldwide)	dgaies	Sold Items	3	06-01-2010 05:10 PM
For Sale - Sold: Hoya Pro1 Digital Filters (CONUS)	Dr Windmill	Sold Items	5	04-20-2010 07:13 PM
Looking for Hoya Pro1 Digital filters?	heatherslightbox	Photographic Technique	0	08-09-2008 11:36 AM
For Sale - Sold: FS: Sigma 17-70mm, Hoya 72mm Pro1 filters	sashae	Sold Items	3	02-10-2008 06:34 PM

03-29-2010, 07:31 AM	#2
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by Keebler Hi again folks, I'm trying to learn so much that I've stressed myself out trying to find answers i'm looking at buying the DA14 (if you've seen my other post). Looks like a great lens. A bit concerned about the size carrying around, but I can't really afford to spend more (plus I do like the wide angle). Which leads to me to the question of a filter. I certainly don't want to spend $650 or so and NOT put a filter on it. Especially considering I'll be using it outside alot for landscapes etc.. I did run a search in this forum, but there were some older threads and one had a promising link, but it doesn't work anymore Anything on Google is older and doesn't contain anything specific. I can't remember which one it is, but one of the Hoya filters is $130'ish and the other is (gulp) $250'ish. I'm still a noob at all of this, but I do understand the better filters (supposedly) let in more light. Also, it appears that both the Pro1 and S-HMC filters are multi-coated. Cost is a bit of a concern, but on the same side, I'm not against buying the 'perfect' filter for a $600 + lens to maximize the camera's ability (then the rest is up to me). btw, I should mention that it's the circular polarizer I'm after. Cheers, Keebler As a long time proponent of filters for protection and now that I've made this decision for myself, I have to ask. Why would you spend $650 for a lens and put a filter in front of it? Unless you are talking about polarizers or ND filters, not needed. FWIW, I use to have the Hoya Digital Pro1 UV filters on my DA* zooms and in some situations, they actually caused ghosting (some might call it flare). I would save the UV money and put it some place else.

03-29-2010, 07:51 AM	#3
Keebler Guest	that's a good question Jeff and something I've thought about, but it's come down to 2 things: 1. I only started in on the DSLR world a few years ago and put filters on my lens for lens protection as I taught myself how to be cautious with the camera. May sound backwards, but I've only started to take the filters off inside (although I keep the lens hood on - hey, I have 2 kids and the amount of crashing into me and throwing things they do, it's paramount 2. I won't use the camera outside without the UV polarizer (or, I should say on always on sunny days - cloudy days, it depends). The difference in seeing the dark blues rather than a lightened sky (with no polarizer) is a home run for me. I can completely see the difference in the photographs. Same with water shots. I think they're critical imho (but then again, maybe it's because I'm not as experienced to make the proper changes to the settings?)

03-29-2010, 07:51 AM	#4
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	I can definitely see you wanting to use a polarizing filter with this lens, but you want to be able to easily rotate them to refract the light to best advantage. So this creates a little bit of work with a standard screw-in, unlike the Cokin system, where the polarizer drops into the slot in the holder and freely rotates. The thing is, you're not going to want to use a polarizer half the time, so depending on which type you go for, you're going to be removing it, losing the protection you think the filter is giving your expensive lens. Finally, I don't know how the Cokin behaves with a 14mm on a DSLR, so I would think you would need the larger Z series here and not the P: COKIN Creative System - The Holder System - Standard & Pro Holder

03-29-2010, 07:54 AM	#5
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	What's the filter diameter on the 14?

03-29-2010, 07:58 AM	#6
xGene Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 151	Originally posted by JeffJS As a long time proponent of filters for protection and now that I've made this decision for myself, I have to ask. Why would you spend $650 for a lens and put a filter in front of it? Unless you are talking about polarizers or ND filters, not needed. FWIW, I use to have the Hoya Digital Pro1 UV filters on my DA* zooms and in some situations, they actually caused ghosting (some might call it flare). I would save the UV money and put it some place else. I wholeheartedly agree with Jeff on that one. Even if it is minimally so, ANY filter will alter negatively the IQ, especially of you have hot spots in the frame, albeit less so with multi-coated filters. The ONLY filters I use are Polarizers. My experience with the Hoya Digital Pro 1 MC polarizer is not so good though, a couple of times, the internal "polarizing film" (no sure of that's the correct name) looked like it was detaching from the glass, although I understand this is sandwiched between two pieces of glass. From up close it looks like the edges are "curling" in the assembly. Now I can't say if it was affecting IQ, but it's a bummer when you pay big money for a 77mm so-to-say premium filter... I have a couple of Rodenstock MC polarizers which seem to be much better quality, but they are hard to find and $$$$. It is however the only one I could find with a 49mm diameter, good for the 15mm ltd, 21mm ltd, etc... Gene

03-29-2010, 08:00 AM	#7
xGene Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 151	Originally posted by Ira What's the filter diameter on the 14? 77mm ($$$$)

03-29-2010, 08:01 AM	#8
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755	You should read this before buying a polarizer for a wide-angle lens: Polarizers Read the "Polarization and Wide Angle Lenses" section.

03-29-2010, 08:26 AM	#9
Keebler Guest	thanks for all the replies folks. Gene, I should have clarified that I do mean only a circular polarizer. Erik, thanks for the link -I'll check that article out. Cheers, Keebler

03-29-2010, 03:08 PM	#10
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Gene, I've seen that more than I care to (the curling film). Moreso and far more extreme than just the edges on older polarizers and in particular, Rolleiflex (TLR) polarizers. On those, it's fixable if you find another polarizer with the same size glass and swap it out but for the (high) price of the Rollei polarizer, it isn't worth messing with. Better to use an adapter and an aftermarket filter. Keebler, I found a Heliopan 77mm circular polarizer on the bay about a year ago for under $50. Used of course. I think it works quite nicely with the DA14 but given the amount I actually use it, I'm glad I didn't pay $100s for it. The upside is that it also works (fits) with the DA*16-50 and the DA12-24. With adapters (that I haven't bought yet) it will also work with most of my other lenses. It isn't something I would leave on the camera however. Since the Heliopan is the only C Polarizer I own, I cannot comment on Hoya's units. I completely understand the kid thing.. Charging at you as soon as they hear the shutter snap yelling Let Me SEE! Let Me SEE!! I've learned to quickly flip the camera around so they can see the screen. I've also protected the LCD from the fingers with some of that protective film. Good luck with it and enjoy your new lens.

03-30-2010, 10:37 AM	#12
BCtoad Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Prince George, British Columbia, Canada. Posts: 135	when I use my 12-24 16-50 200&300mm lenses I only use A Hoya protector filter, relatively inexpensive I believe around 65$ Canadian have had no problems with flair or ghosting a great investment.

03-30-2010, 10:43 AM	#13
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by Lodewijk I wouldn't use the cokin system because ...you cannot use the hood with it which is essential on the DA 14 especially with a polarizer. Sure you can: You actually snap inexpensive hood pieces right onto the holder, so you can make the hood as short or as long as you want. One holder, one filter, a couple of hood segments and the appropriate filter ring and it works on every lens in your bag.

03-30-2010, 11:11 AM	#15
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Without second guessing your decision to use a filter, please be aware of the following findings: UV filters test - Description of the results and summary - Lenstip.com This is the order or the first and second place winners: 1. Hoya 72 mm HMC UV-0 1. (tie) Hoya 72 mm Pro1 Digital MC UV-0 2. Hoya 72 mm HMC Super UV-0 Note that the HMC UV(0) is actually MUCH less expensive than the Pro 1 Digital. I believe that the UV(0) is not made or generally not available any more, but that the UV(c) has replaced it. The manufacturing facility is different... UV(c) now made in the Philippines as opposed to UV(0) made in Japan. I am not going to argue this point or any other point here, I am just reporting facts. By all means read the article and conclusions. In the end I found old stock UV(0). I do not use them much except in situations where a little additional protection is warranted... a windy day at the beach comes to mind. That saved me so cash to invest in proper Polarizers and ND filters. Hope this helps. BTW, the results of the Circ. Polarizer tests are interesting as well. Polarizing filters test - Results and summary - Lenstip.com woof