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04-13-2010, 10:17 AM   #16
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Where the confusion comes about is the interchangeable use of Normal & Standard lens. The standard lens is defined by the film or sensor diagonal. Additionally, this doesn't apply solely to 135 slr cameras. The definition of a standard lens is one where the focal length of the lens roughly equals the diagonal of the image area (film, plate, sensor etc.). It doesn't stipulate it has to be for 135 (aka 35mm). John Hedgecoe has referred to a normal lens as a standard lens.

I think this makes the registry distance and mirror moot given that there are 135 based rangefinder bodies out there not to mention 120 and 110 slr as well as LF systems.

04-13-2010, 10:29 AM   #17
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This is a very interesting question, but one that is totally a matter of personal taste.

In film days, I shot with the 50 and considered it normal. It came with the camera, and it was pretty close to my view. If I had to have only one prime lens now for APS-c, it would be the F35/2. If I could afford it, I might be tempted away with the FA31. Since I have more than one, most of my shots with primes are now 40 and 21.

However, my wife was in the camp Ben described. She never bought a 50 for her Contax, but had the wide (28 or 35) and the 85.
04-13-2010, 01:13 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote

For others, and I believe this the best way to consider things, normal yeilds a photo with the same perspective that someone would get when standing where the photo was taken from. I think for 35mm film that is actually 55-58mm
But then, perspective is always and only determined by the position of the lens and in no way by its focal length.What would then be a "normal" lens, as any lens from a 10mm super wide angle to a 600mm super tele photo will give you the exact same perspective when used from the same point. The only difference is angle of view.

Ben
04-14-2010, 08:12 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Where the confusion comes about is the interchangeable use of Normal & Standard lens. The standard lens is defined by the film or sensor diagonal. Additionally, this doesn't apply solely to 135 slr cameras. The definition of a standard lens is one where the focal length of the lens roughly equals the diagonal of the image area (film, plate, sensor etc.). It doesn't stipulate it has to be for 135 (aka 35mm). John Hedgecoe has referred to a normal lens as a standard lens.
Old engineering saying: The nice thing about standards is, there are so many of them.

As noted somewhere, 35mm was the standard for Leica RF's, 40-45mm the standard for many fixed-lens RF's but some went wider, and other 135/FF cams had whatever standard the designers wanted. Like legality, standard means whatever you can get away with. I think the standard for any format's SLR's was a bit longer that that for RF's and non-interchangeable-lens cams. Yah, blame the mirror. When FF or APS-C EVIL's finally escape into the wild, their standard will probably be a bit wider than for their SLR counterparts.

04-14-2010, 08:36 PM   #20
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Standard and normal are not necessarily interchangeable terms. A standard lens just means a kit lens, which became semi-synonymous with normal because most kit lenses were normal primes. It's like Kleenex and tissues. All Kleenex are tissues, but all tissues are not Kleenex.
04-14-2010, 08:39 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Standard and normal are not necessarily interchangeable terms. A standarAll Kleenex are tissues, but all tissues are not Kleenex.
Kleenex hand sanitiser isn't a tissue
04-14-2010, 10:49 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Standard and normal are not necessarily interchangeable terms. A standard lens just means a kit lens, which became semi-synonymous with normal because most kit lenses were normal primes. It's like Kleenex and tissues. All Kleenex are tissues, but all tissues are not Kleenex.
Show a printed reference from a legitimate source that calls an 18-55mm a "standard" lens. I cited John Hedgecoe above for Standard and Normal being roughly equivalent.
04-14-2010, 10:52 PM   #23
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I must say that this guy may quite possibly have the perfect, normal lens . . .



04-15-2010, 02:20 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I must say that this guy may quite possibly have the perfect, normal lens . . .

Ha Ha Ha.
That is perfectly true for Mr Clown, only the lens isn't properly "screwed".
Cheers.
04-15-2010, 04:42 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Show a printed reference from a legitimate source that calls an 18-55mm a "standard" lens. I cited John Hedgecoe above for Standard and Normal being roughly equivalent.
Standard and normal are roughly equivalent in photography, that corresponds with what I said earlier. A standard lens was provided as standard with the camera. Since standard lenses were almost always lenses with a normal perspective, the terms became synonymous in everyday language.

I should have said "a standard lens meant a kit lens", as the the term standard has now been replaced by "kit" and standard is almost exclusively understood to mean normal. Although Pentax does still use the term standard: The smc PENTAX DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL II features the ideal standard zoom focal range for a wide range of shooting applications. http://www.pentaximaging.com/camera-lenses/smc_PENTAX_DA_18-55mm_F3.5-5.6_AL_II/

If the above had said 'The smc PENTAX DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL II features the ideal normal zoom focal range' it wouldn't be right.

Last edited by audiobomber; 04-15-2010 at 05:18 AM.
04-15-2010, 06:43 AM   #26
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Go out and take some pictures.
04-15-2010, 06:44 AM   #27
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So much of it depends upon what you are shooting. The Olympus pocket cameras and many other quality point and shoot film cameras had 35mm lenses. I found this to be a great normal (i.e. compromise) lens for travel where you shot mostly buildings and scenics and groups of people. On the other hand, on another thread, a poster was talking about reducing down to only the DA40 on an APS-c format. The older I get, the more I see that (~60mm on film) as an ideal "normal" lens since it works for more portrait-like shots.
04-15-2010, 06:44 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Go out and take some pictures.
Good advice. The weather is inviting down here.
04-15-2010, 06:46 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Go out and take some pictures.
Look who's talking! Mr. Almost-5000-posts-Wheatfield.

Last edited by audiobomber; 04-15-2010 at 07:51 AM.
04-15-2010, 06:57 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
So much of it depends upon what you are shooting. The Olympus pocket cameras and many other quality point and shoot film cameras had 35mm lenses. I found this to be a great normal (i.e. compromise) lens for travel where you shot mostly buildings and scenics and groups of people. On the other hand, on another thread, a poster was talking about reducing down to only the DA40 on an APS-c format. The older I get, the more I see that (~60mm on film) as an ideal "normal" lens since it works for more portrait-like shots.
Normal isn't the lens that was supplied with the camera, and it isn't the FL someone feels most comfortable shooting. Normal refers to normal perspective (i.e. normal depth perception, not compressed or stretched perspectives). Normal is in between wide angle and telephoto. The exact range is debatable, but is always stated as somewhere between 40-60mm. I'd call the DA 40mm normal (barely) on an APS-C sensor. I wouldn't call 35mm normal on a film camera, but that is what I used for years, and it worked great as a "compromise" lens for me. I find normal length is too in-between; not wide enough or not long enough for most subjects.

Normal lens: Information from Answers.com

Last edited by audiobomber; 04-15-2010 at 07:20 AM.
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