Lovin' on the Helios 44 (58mm f/2)

Cabessius · 04-24-2017, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by IgorZ

I have Helios 44-2, but recently I got this idea into my mind that I'd like to try Helios 44... Once I get an idea it's hard to get it out of my mind, when it comes to lenses... Is there a big difference between the 44 and 44-2 in terms of rendering? I guess if you shoot wide open there shouldn't be much...

The difference is not so big, but if you like the 44-2 you should definitely try a 44. There are Helios 44 with 8 or 13 blades, maybe the difference is more noticeable with the 13-bladed (which I don´t have).

IgorZ · 04-25-2017, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Cabessius

The difference is not so big, but if you like the 44-2 you should definitely try a 44. There are Helios 44 with 8 or 13 blades, maybe the difference is more noticeable with the 13-bladed (which I don´t have).

I am tempted. But then when I start looking at them I get really tempted to get a Biotar. These guys get up to 17 blades... Although the number of blades per se is not the major motivation for me (I have a Tair with 20), but overall rendering is what I am interested in. I remember reading comparisons between Helios 40 and biotar 75 f1.5 and from what I remember, the Biotar provided more swirl. But reviews on Russian websites seem to suggest that Helios 44 does more swirling than Biotar 58mm...

Jean Poitiers · 04-30-2017, 08:51 AM - **8 Likes**

End of month Single Challenge efforts with silver Helios 44 (58/2 - 13 blade - M39 with adapters) on K-1. Middle two with n° 1 Pentax K extension tube and last two with a Panagor Auto Macro Converter @ 1:1 ratio. (xpost from Bokeh thread)

**pepperberry farm** · 05-08-2017, 09:34 AM - **1 Like**

and one of my assistants this morning:

Mr Bassie · 05-16-2017, 10:02 AM - **11 Likes**

Helios 44-2 on K3II

**mattb123** · 05-16-2017, 10:16 AM - **9 Likes**

Originally posted by Mr Bassie

Helios 44-2 on K3II

That's a great shot! Nice work.

Here are a couple I took yesterday with the 44k-4 on my K-1 (x-post)

Kazinjo · 05-17-2017, 10:41 AM - **1 Like**

wow Matt, great pics guys!

Cabessius · 06-07-2017, 09:19 AM - **5 Likes**

Flaring with the early KMZ Helios 44

timw4mail · 06-07-2017, 10:37 AM

^ Wow, that's a rare case of flare really adding to a photo.

Somewhat related, does the Zenitar-K2 2/50 count as a Helios, considering its very similar optical layout?

Cabessius · 06-07-2017, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by timw4mail

^ Wow, that's a rare case of flare really adding to a photo.

Somewhat related, does the Zenitar-K2 2/50 count as a Helios, considering its very similar optical layout?

Many thanks.
The Zenitar is certainly not a Helios, altough also produced by Zenit and usually in the same factory (KMZ).

cyberjunkie · 06-10-2017, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by IgorZ

I am tempted. But then when I start looking at them I get really tempted to get a Biotar. These guys get up to 17 blades...
I remember reading comparisons between Helios 40 and biotar 75 f1.5 and from what I remember, the Biotar provided more swirl. But reviews on Russian websites seem to suggest that Helios 44 does more swirling than Biotar 58mm...

I own no Biotars, just russian knock-offs.
Original Zeiss Biotar lenses are collector's items, too expensive for my taste, considering that from a photographic point of view there is no big difference from their russian counterparts.
The Helios 40 1.5/85mm is a great lens for full frame, but I had no time to test it properly. Just a first impression.
I have no experience with the 40-2, of course it has a much better coating, but I believe that vintage russian lenses had better QC and often had much better build. Not all of them, but my Helios 40 has a very robust barrel construction, and has resisted the injuries of time pretty well.
A tad too heavy, though

The various Helios 44 are rather different one from the other. The K44 is the most practical, but the best one is the original 44, followed by the 44-2.
Unfortunately my old 44, with click-less diaphragm and plenty of diaphragm leaves, can't reach infinity. I tried with a M39toM42 ring, plus a Pentax adapter ring (to PK); the register should be ok but it's not.
I have to try if the helicoid has enough room for registration, other way I must mill the base of the lens.
The 85mm works fine, instead. The seller from Ukraine sent me the lens with the M39 ring on, and when I tried it on a good PK adapter the infinity was spot on.

Apart from the eventual need for focus adjustment, the two M39 (or, more correctly, LTM) versions are the best, IMHO.
Both are nicely made, and the optical signature is great.

If you are not a collector, and the lens you want to buy is meant as a "user" one, I wouldn't invest in an original Biotar

Cheers

Paolo

schnitzer79 · 06-12-2017, 09:54 PM - **4 Likes**

A bit of lovin' with the 44-2 + Raynox 150
x-posted

Topsy · 06-13-2017, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by cyberjunkie

Unfortunately my old 44, with click-less diaphragm and plenty of diaphragm leaves, can't reach infinity. I tried with a M39toM42 ring, plus a Pentax adapter ring (to PK); the register should be ok but it's not.
I have to try if the helicoid has enough room for registration, other way I must mill the base of the lens.
The 85mm works fine, instead. The seller from Ukraine sent me the lens with the M39 ring on, and when I tried it on a good PK adapter the infinity was spot on.

Cheers

Paolo

Unless something is wrong with it there is spacer shim inside the lens that is a tiny bit too thick. There is a minute difference in registration distance (I think 0.26mm) between sovjet m39 and m42.

Machining the shim down or replacing it with something else should do the trick.
I've used shimstock in my Jupiter 9 and a mixture between shimstock and cardboard in my 44.

I'd try to making your own shim because if you turn too much off the original one the aperture ring will hit the barrel and that's not what we want.

Luckily getting to the shim these lenses is fairly easy.

cyberjunkie · 06-13-2017, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Topsy

Unless something is wrong with it there is spacer shim inside the lens that is a tiny bit too thick. There is a minute difference in registration distance (I think 0.26mm) between sovjet m39 and m42.

Luckily getting to the shim these lenses is fairly easy.

From the back? Removing the mount block?
I don't remember how it is built. I remember it's different from the 44-2 and the 44K-4 (which are the other two i got).
The lens is on the other side of the planet, but soon i will the opportunity (and the time) to try to fix it myself...
Thanks

cheers

Paolo

Topsy · 06-13-2017, 08:37 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by cyberjunkie

From the back? Removing the mount block?
I don't remember how it is built. I remember it's different from the 44-2 and the 44K-4 (which are the other two i got).
The lens is on the other side of the planet, but soon i will the opportunity (and the time) to try to fix it myself...
Thanks

cheers

Paolo

On my 44 I can grab the aperture and preset rings and twist counterclockwise (viewing from the front of the lens).
This unscrews all elements in one piece from the helicoid and mount part giving you access to the shim.

Works exactly the same on the Jupiter 9 too.

05-08-2017, 09:34 AM - 1 Like	#469
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,766	K-3 with KMZ (Zenit) MC Helios-44K-4 and one of my assistants this morning:

05-16-2017, 10:02 AM - 11 Likes	#470
Mr Bassie Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,258	Helios 44-2 on K3II Helios 44-2 on K3II

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04-24-2017, 12:48 PM	#466
Cabessius Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ibiza, Spain Posts: 471	Originally posted by IgorZ I have Helios 44-2, but recently I got this idea into my mind that I'd like to try Helios 44... Once I get an idea it's hard to get it out of my mind, when it comes to lenses... Is there a big difference between the 44 and 44-2 in terms of rendering? I guess if you shoot wide open there shouldn't be much... The difference is not so big, but if you like the 44-2 you should definitely try a 44. There are Helios 44 with 8 or 13 blades, maybe the difference is more noticeable with the 13-bladed (which I don´t have).

04-25-2017, 07:58 AM	#467
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Originally posted by Cabessius The difference is not so big, but if you like the 44-2 you should definitely try a 44. There are Helios 44 with 8 or 13 blades, maybe the difference is more noticeable with the 13-bladed (which I don´t have). I am tempted. But then when I start looking at them I get really tempted to get a Biotar. These guys get up to 17 blades... Although the number of blades per se is not the major motivation for me (I have a Tair with 20), but overall rendering is what I am interested in. I remember reading comparisons between Helios 40 and biotar 75 f1.5 and from what I remember, the Biotar provided more swirl. But reviews on Russian websites seem to suggest that Helios 44 does more swirling than Biotar 58mm...

04-30-2017, 08:51 AM - 8 Likes	#468
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	End of month Single Challenge efforts with silver Helios 44 (58/2 - 13 blade - M39 with adapters) on K-1. Middle two with n° 1 Pentax K extension tube and last two with a Panagor Auto Macro Converter @ 1:1 ratio. (xpost from Bokeh thread)

05-16-2017, 10:16 AM - 9 Likes	#471
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,873	Originally posted by Mr Bassie Helios 44-2 on K3II That's a great shot! Nice work. Here are a couple I took yesterday with the 44k-4 on my K-1 (x-post)

05-17-2017, 10:41 AM - 1 Like	#472
Kazinjo Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Zagreb Photos: Gallery Posts: 38	wow Matt, great pics guys!

06-07-2017, 09:19 AM - 5 Likes	#473
Cabessius Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ibiza, Spain Posts: 471	Flaring with the early KMZ Helios 44

06-07-2017, 10:37 AM	#474
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	^ Wow, that's a rare case of flare really adding to a photo. Somewhat related, does the Zenitar-K2 2/50 count as a Helios, considering its very similar optical layout?

06-07-2017, 11:50 AM	#475
Cabessius Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ibiza, Spain Posts: 471	Originally posted by timw4mail ^ Wow, that's a rare case of flare really adding to a photo. Somewhat related, does the Zenitar-K2 2/50 count as a Helios, considering its very similar optical layout? Many thanks. The Zenitar is certainly not a Helios, altough also produced by Zenit and usually in the same factory (KMZ).

06-10-2017, 08:00 AM	#476
cyberjunkie Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chiang Mai, Bologna, Amsterdam Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,198	Originally posted by IgorZ I am tempted. But then when I start looking at them I get really tempted to get a Biotar. These guys get up to 17 blades... I remember reading comparisons between Helios 40 and biotar 75 f1.5 and from what I remember, the Biotar provided more swirl. But reviews on Russian websites seem to suggest that Helios 44 does more swirling than Biotar 58mm... I own no Biotars, just russian knock-offs. Original Zeiss Biotar lenses are collector's items, too expensive for my taste, considering that from a photographic point of view there is no big difference from their russian counterparts. The Helios 40 1.5/85mm is a great lens for full frame, but I had no time to test it properly. Just a first impression. I have no experience with the 40-2, of course it has a much better coating, but I believe that vintage russian lenses had better QC and often had much better build. Not all of them, but my Helios 40 has a very robust barrel construction, and has resisted the injuries of time pretty well. A tad too heavy, though The various Helios 44 are rather different one from the other. The K44 is the most practical, but the best one is the original 44, followed by the 44-2. Unfortunately my old 44, with click-less diaphragm and plenty of diaphragm leaves, can't reach infinity. I tried with a M39toM42 ring, plus a Pentax adapter ring (to PK); the register should be ok but it's not. I have to try if the helicoid has enough room for registration, other way I must mill the base of the lens. The 85mm works fine, instead. The seller from Ukraine sent me the lens with the M39 ring on, and when I tried it on a good PK adapter the infinity was spot on. Apart from the eventual need for focus adjustment, the two M39 (or, more correctly, LTM) versions are the best, IMHO. Both are nicely made, and the optical signature is great. If you are not a collector, and the lens you want to buy is meant as a "user" one, I wouldn't invest in an original Biotar Cheers Paolo

06-12-2017, 09:54 PM - 4 Likes	#477
schnitzer79 Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,248	A bit of lovin' with the 44-2 + Raynox 150 x-posted

06-13-2017, 07:40 AM	#478
Topsy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 625	Originally posted by cyberjunkie Unfortunately my old 44, with click-less diaphragm and plenty of diaphragm leaves, can't reach infinity. I tried with a M39toM42 ring, plus a Pentax adapter ring (to PK); the register should be ok but it's not. I have to try if the helicoid has enough room for registration, other way I must mill the base of the lens. The 85mm works fine, instead. The seller from Ukraine sent me the lens with the M39 ring on, and when I tried it on a good PK adapter the infinity was spot on. Cheers Paolo Unless something is wrong with it there is spacer shim inside the lens that is a tiny bit too thick. There is a minute difference in registration distance (I think 0.26mm) between sovjet m39 and m42. Machining the shim down or replacing it with something else should do the trick. I've used shimstock in my Jupiter 9 and a mixture between shimstock and cardboard in my 44. I'd try to making your own shim because if you turn too much off the original one the aperture ring will hit the barrel and that's not what we want. Luckily getting to the shim these lenses is fairly easy.

06-13-2017, 08:15 AM	#479
cyberjunkie Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chiang Mai, Bologna, Amsterdam Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,198	Originally posted by Topsy Unless something is wrong with it there is spacer shim inside the lens that is a tiny bit too thick. There is a minute difference in registration distance (I think 0.26mm) between sovjet m39 and m42. Luckily getting to the shim these lenses is fairly easy. From the back? Removing the mount block? I don't remember how it is built. I remember it's different from the 44-2 and the 44K-4 (which are the other two i got). The lens is on the other side of the planet, but soon i will the opportunity (and the time) to try to fix it myself... Thanks cheers Paolo

06-13-2017, 08:37 AM - 1 Like	#480
Topsy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 625	Originally posted by cyberjunkie From the back? Removing the mount block? I don't remember how it is built. I remember it's different from the 44-2 and the 44K-4 (which are the other two i got). The lens is on the other side of the planet, but soon i will the opportunity (and the time) to try to fix it myself... Thanks cheers Paolo On my 44 I can grab the aperture and preset rings and twist counterclockwise (viewing from the front of the lens). This unscrews all elements in one piece from the helicoid and mount part giving you access to the shim. Works exactly the same on the Jupiter 9 too.