Lovin' on the Helios 44 (58mm f/2)

stevebrot · 12-15-2018, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Cabessius

Complete list of Helios lenses - getting closer

Thanks! I remember when no-X started his project but have not been back there for awhile. I did not know that he had the resolution numbers for the 44-3, but now I do. I noticed that you were a participant on that thread.

Originally posted by Cabessius

But if you are interested in a side by side comparison between any Helios 44 versions just let me know. I have most of them.

Thanks, I will remember that.

Steve

cyberjunkie · 12-16-2018, 02:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

Now you tell us! So what about the Helios-3 you asked about?

Just kidding.

I am the master of typos

This was not embarrassing, I have done much worse other times...
Of course I meant 44-3.
I think the Helios 3 is one of those rare soviet lenses that are game for hard core collectors. Not totally sure though. If I'm wrong, I will stand corrected very soon

---------- Post added 16-12-18 at 11:19 AM ----------

Originally posted by stevebrot

Thanks! I remember when no-X started his project but have not been back there for awhile. I did not know that he had the resolution numbers for the 44-3, but now I do.

The resolution figures for most (all?) soviet lenses should be available from the GOI site or sovietcams.com.
There are optical designs cut-outs and the original sheets of the various optics, even the uncommon ones.
The values of resolution for center/borders are much lower than what you'd expect, because they were neither theoretical nor measured on the aerial image. They used cheap soviet film instead.
On a good modern sensor the number of lines/mm that the lens can discriminate would be higher.

EDIT:
couldn't find the GOI site, I don't even know if it's still online.
This page The 6x9 Photography Online Resource - Files has a link to a huge 1963 GOI catalog with all the info you might ask for.
The PDF version is 141Mb

stevebrot · 12-16-2018, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by cyberjunkie

The resolution figures for most (all?) soviet lenses should be available from the GOI site or sovietcams.com.

Sovietcams.com is hit or miss and the GOI site is MIA. IIRC, the zenitcamera site used to have photocopied archives of technical stuff as well as extensive product listings, but those seem to have disappeared as well.

Originally posted by cyberjunkie

The values of resolution for center/borders are much lower than what you'd expect, because they were neither theoretical nor measured on the aerial image. They used cheap soviet film instead.

That was my understanding as well. There is a note on Helios 44 page at zenitcamera.com with an "experimental" test using higher resolution film that gives somewhat higher numbers ("Resolution (0/10/20 mm ) : 46/33/26 lines / mm", LINK)

Originally posted by cyberjunkie

couldn't find the GOI site, I don't even know if it's still online.
This page The 6x9 Photography Online Resource - Files has a link to a huge 1963 GOI catalog with all the info you might ask for.

Thanks...this should keep me busy for awhile, particularly since I can barely transliterate Cyrillic, much less read Russian.

Steve

stillshot2 · 12-16-2018, 09:43 AM

I think I'm going to pick one of these up. So do some of them have a Ricoh pin then? I thought all variants were all m42 mounts?

cyberjunkie · 12-16-2018, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by stillshot2

I think I'm going to pick one of these up. So do some of them have a Ricoh pin then? I thought all variants were all m42 mounts?

AFAIK there is only one PK version. No Ricoh pin or any other inconvenience.
All the others are either M42 or M39 (not the Leica standard, register is almost identical to M42 lenses).

stevebrot · 12-16-2018, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by stillshot2

I think I'm going to pick one of these up. So do some of them have a Ricoh pin then? I thought all variants were all m42 mounts?

Nope, no Ricoh pin! The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K. Those variants with an "M" in the name are M42 with a metal aperture actuator pin on the lens rear; of those only the Helios 44M has an auto/manual switch. All other common variants (44, 44-2, 44-3) have a preset aperture mechanism and are M42, with the exception of the Helios 44 with M39 (Zenit) mount.

Steve

Xmas · 12-16-2018, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Nope, no Ricoh pin! The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K. Those variants with an "M" in the name are M42 with a metal aperture actuator pin on the lens rear; of those only the Helios 44M has an auto/manual switch. All other common variants (44, 44-2, 44-3) have a preset aperture mechanism and are M42, with the exception of the Helios 44 with M39 (Zenit) mount.

Steve

My 44M-4 does not have an auto/manual switch it is always auto it is an 84xxxx ?

stevebrot · 12-16-2018, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Xmas

My 44M-4 does not have an auto/manual switch it is always auto it is an 84xxxx ?

Yes, that is true. The 44M is the only auto-aperture version that has the A/M switch. Unless someone has done a surgical conversion, your lens will stay wide open at all aperture settings unless the pin on the back is depressed.

Steve

Xmas · 12-16-2018, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Yes, that is true. The 44M is the only auto-aperture version that has the A/M switch. Unless someone has done a surgical conversion, your lens will stay wide open at all aperture settings unless the pin on the back is depressed.

Steve

Sorry for missunderstanding and thanks for information! I can see the problem with K mount conversion as mine lives on a small button Spotmatic!

stillshot2 · 12-16-2018, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by cyberjunkie

AFAIK there is only one PK version. No Ricoh pin or any other inconvenience.
All the others are either M42 or M39 (not the Leica standard, register is almost identical to M42 lenses).

Originally posted by stevebrot

Nope, no Ricoh pin! The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K.

Thanks guys you all know so much!

edom31 · 12-17-2018, 12:33 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by stevebrot

The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K.

Here's mine mounted on my K-50:

edom31 · 03-13-2019, 07:07 AM

No bokeh, but a simple example of the 44K-4...

IgorZ · 03-13-2019, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Sovietcams.com is hit or miss and the GOI site is MIA. IIRC, the zenitcamera site used to have photocopied archives of technical stuff as well as extensive product listings, but those seem to have disappeared as well.

That was my understanding as well. There is a note on Helios 44 page at zenitcamera.com with an "experimental" test using higher resolution film that gives somewhat higher numbers ("Resolution (0/10/20 mm ) : 46/33/26 lines / mm", LINK)

Thanks...this should keep me busy for awhile, particularly since I can barely transliterate Cyrillic, much less read Russian.

Steve

I can be a volunteer Cyrillic reader if Google translate doesn't make sense

by the way: here is another good source of information which you can sort by column. Also in Russian though.

edom31 · 03-14-2019, 08:46 PM - **2 Likes**

Helios 44K-4 58/2 on K-50

Cabessius · 03-21-2019, 01:36 PM - **4 Likes**

Early all-black Helios 44

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12-15-2018, 01:17 PM	#676
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Cabessius Complete list of Helios lenses - getting closer Thanks! I remember when no-X started his project but have not been back there for awhile. I did not know that he had the resolution numbers for the 44-3, but now I do. I noticed that you were a participant on that thread. Originally posted by Cabessius But if you are interested in a side by side comparison between any Helios 44 versions just let me know. I have most of them. Thanks, I will remember that. Steve

12-16-2018, 02:06 AM - 1 Like	#677
cyberjunkie Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chiang Mai, Bologna, Amsterdam Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,198	Originally posted by stevebrot Now you tell us! So what about the Helios-3 you asked about? Just kidding. I am the master of typos This was not embarrassing, I have done much worse other times... Of course I meant 44-3. I think the Helios 3 is one of those rare soviet lenses that are game for hard core collectors. Not totally sure though. If I'm wrong, I will stand corrected very soon ---------- Post added 16-12-18 at 11:19 AM ---------- Originally posted by stevebrot Thanks! I remember when no-X started his project but have not been back there for awhile. I did not know that he had the resolution numbers for the 44-3, but now I do. The resolution figures for most (all?) soviet lenses should be available from the GOI site or sovietcams.com. There are optical designs cut-outs and the original sheets of the various optics, even the uncommon ones. The values of resolution for center/borders are much lower than what you'd expect, because they were neither theoretical nor measured on the aerial image. They used cheap soviet film instead. On a good modern sensor the number of lines/mm that the lens can discriminate would be higher. EDIT: couldn't find the GOI site, I don't even know if it's still online. This page The 6x9 Photography Online Resource - Files has a link to a huge 1963 GOI catalog with all the info you might ask for. The PDF version is 141Mb

12-16-2018, 09:37 AM	#678
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by cyberjunkie The resolution figures for most (all?) soviet lenses should be available from the GOI site or sovietcams.com. Sovietcams.com is hit or miss and the GOI site is MIA. IIRC, the zenitcamera site used to have photocopied archives of technical stuff as well as extensive product listings, but those seem to have disappeared as well. Originally posted by cyberjunkie The values of resolution for center/borders are much lower than what you'd expect, because they were neither theoretical nor measured on the aerial image. They used cheap soviet film instead. That was my understanding as well. There is a note on Helios 44 page at zenitcamera.com with an "experimental" test using higher resolution film that gives somewhat higher numbers ("Resolution (0/10/20 mm ) : 46/33/26 lines / mm", LINK) Originally posted by cyberjunkie couldn't find the GOI site, I don't even know if it's still online. This page The 6x9 Photography Online Resource - Files has a link to a huge 1963 GOI catalog with all the info you might ask for. Thanks...this should keep me busy for awhile, particularly since I can barely transliterate Cyrillic, much less read Russian. Steve

12-16-2018, 09:43 AM	#679
stillshot2 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,070	I think I'm going to pick one of these up. So do some of them have a Ricoh pin then? I thought all variants were all m42 mounts?

12-16-2018, 11:08 AM	#680
cyberjunkie Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chiang Mai, Bologna, Amsterdam Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,198	Originally posted by stillshot2 I think I'm going to pick one of these up. So do some of them have a Ricoh pin then? I thought all variants were all m42 mounts? AFAIK there is only one PK version. No Ricoh pin or any other inconvenience. All the others are either M42 or M39 (not the Leica standard, register is almost identical to M42 lenses).

12-16-2018, 11:30 AM	#681
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stillshot2 I think I'm going to pick one of these up. So do some of them have a Ricoh pin then? I thought all variants were all m42 mounts? Nope, no Ricoh pin! The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K. Those variants with an "M" in the name are M42 with a metal aperture actuator pin on the lens rear; of those only the Helios 44M has an auto/manual switch. All other common variants (44, 44-2, 44-3) have a preset aperture mechanism and are M42, with the exception of the Helios 44 with M39 (Zenit) mount. Steve

12-16-2018, 12:58 PM	#682
Xmas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 617	Originally posted by stevebrot Nope, no Ricoh pin! The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K. Those variants with an "M" in the name are M42 with a metal aperture actuator pin on the lens rear; of those only the Helios 44M has an auto/manual switch. All other common variants (44, 44-2, 44-3) have a preset aperture mechanism and are M42, with the exception of the Helios 44 with M39 (Zenit) mount. Steve My 44M-4 does not have an auto/manual switch it is always auto it is an 84xxxx ?

12-16-2018, 01:01 PM	#683
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Xmas My 44M-4 does not have an auto/manual switch it is always auto it is an 84xxxx ? Yes, that is true. The 44M is the only auto-aperture version that has the A/M switch. Unless someone has done a surgical conversion, your lens will stay wide open at all aperture settings unless the pin on the back is depressed. Steve

12-16-2018, 01:41 PM	#684
Xmas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 617	Originally posted by stevebrot Yes, that is true. The 44M is the only auto-aperture version that has the A/M switch. Unless someone has done a surgical conversion, your lens will stay wide open at all aperture settings unless the pin on the back is depressed. Steve Sorry for missunderstanding and thanks for information! I can see the problem with K mount conversion as mine lives on a small button Spotmatic!

12-16-2018, 01:45 PM	#685
stillshot2 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,070	Originally posted by cyberjunkie AFAIK there is only one PK version. No Ricoh pin or any other inconvenience. All the others are either M42 or M39 (not the Leica standard, register is almost identical to M42 lenses). Originally posted by stevebrot Nope, no Ricoh pin! The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K. Thanks guys you all know so much!

03-14-2019, 08:46 PM - 2 Likes	#689
edom31 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Garden City, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,349	Helios 44K-4 58/2 on K-50

12-17-2018, 12:33 PM - 2 Likes	#686
edom31 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Garden City, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,349	Originally posted by stevebrot The Helios 44K-4 is standard Pentax K. Here's mine mounted on my K-50:

03-13-2019, 07:07 AM	#687
edom31 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Garden City, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,349	No bokeh, but a simple example of the 44K-4...

03-13-2019, 09:24 AM	#688
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Originally posted by stevebrot Sovietcams.com is hit or miss and the GOI site is MIA. IIRC, the zenitcamera site used to have photocopied archives of technical stuff as well as extensive product listings, but those seem to have disappeared as well. That was my understanding as well. There is a note on Helios 44 page at zenitcamera.com with an "experimental" test using higher resolution film that gives somewhat higher numbers ("Resolution (0/10/20 mm ) : 46/33/26 lines / mm", LINK) Thanks...this should keep me busy for awhile, particularly since I can barely transliterate Cyrillic, much less read Russian. Steve I can be a volunteer Cyrillic reader if Google translate doesn't make sense by the way: here is another good source of information which you can sort by column. Also in Russian though.

03-21-2019, 01:36 PM - 4 Likes	#690
Cabessius Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ibiza, Spain Posts: 471	Early all-black Helios 44