Is it me, or is used glass getting expensive

GeneV · 04-18-2010, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I think you are seeing that the market of desireable old lenses is drying up

You simply don't see many used pentax lenses in stores. Lots of canon and nikon, but no pentax (except for the mid 1990's platic junk and kit lenses)

Even on EBAY while the number of pentax compatible lenses is increasing, it is all russian and most are BIN, the number of lenses going for auctions is dropping rapidly

So true. Ebay is not what it was even a year or two ago. I'm especially blown away at how much "M" primes bring, and manual focus 645 glass (other than the 75mm) has gone from screaming bargain to somewhat scarce.

séamuis · 04-18-2010, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Nubi

One word of caution is the current DA lines includding ltds and *'s. They will be outdated soon due to sensor coverage issues. Too bad, because some of the DA lenses I think are few of the best that were ever produced.

uhh, what?

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-18-2010, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Nubi

Just like the market, it will fluctuate, I am sure.

One word of caution is the current DA lines includding ltds and *'s. They will be outdated soon due to sensor coverage issues. Too bad, because some of the DA lenses I think are few of the best that were ever produced.

There is no need to put panic into people by saying the end is near for asp-c sensor based lenses, it's not

JeffJS · 04-18-2010, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

There is no need to put panic into people by saying the end is near for asp-c sensor based lenses, it's not

No panic.. I just thought it was a BS statement. Even if pentax does release another 'format' camera, I doubt they'll abandon the APS-C anytime soon. Too much invested in it for them. Heck, even the 645D is a cropped sensor from the specs I saw. Surely isn't a full 6cm x 4.5cm...

séamuis · 04-18-2010, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

No panic.. I just thought it was a BS statement. Even if pentax does release another 'format' camera, I doubt they'll abandon the APS-C anytime soon. Too much invested in it for them. Heck, even the 645D is a cropped sensor from the specs I saw. Surely isn't a full 6cm x 4.5cm...

they will surely do like nikon and have a sensor based 'crop' function for the use of aps-c lenses.

stevebrot · 04-18-2010, 09:21 AM

And the main cause for the scarcity and increase in price for vintage Pentax glass...DRUM ROLL...

The various club and individual lens threads at Pentax Forums!!!

Case in point might be the Vivitar 28mm variants. Not only has that brand/focal length risen from relative obscurity, but certain versions have generated a cult following based on reviews and photos posted here! It is not unusual for a some to generate prices at auction 2x-3x the price new back in the day.

Good glass + exposure => higher prices + scarcity

Steve

GeneV · 04-18-2010, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

they will surely do like nikon and have a sensor based 'crop' function for the use of aps-c lenses.

And even if they didn't, it is not rocket science to crop out the middle ~16x24 in ACR or some other raw editor. I even do it on film with DA lenses sometimes.

Ira · 04-18-2010, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

And the main cause for the scarcity and increase in price for vintage Pentax glass...DRUM ROLL...

The various club and individual lens threads at Pentax Forums!!!

Case in point might be the Vivitar 28mm variants. Not only has that brand/focal length risen from relative obscurity, but certain versions have generated a cult following based on reviews and photos posted here! It is not unusual for a some to generate prices at auction 2x-3x the price new back in the day.

Good glass + exposure => higher prices + scarcity

Steve

I plead guilty.

séamuis · 04-18-2010, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Ira

I plead guilty.

the Takumar club, being at the top of the list.

JeffJS · 04-18-2010, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

they will surely do like nikon and have a sensor based 'crop' function for the use of aps-c lenses.

Originally posted by GeneV

And even if they didn't, it is not rocket science to crop out the middle ~16x24 in ACR or some other raw editor. I even do it on film with DA lenses sometimes.

I'll worry about it when all 3 of my current DSLRs are dead and I have the spare coin to buy a FF (or other) camera. Right now, the AF160FC on ebay last night was a bit of a stretch for me this month. Somebody leaving Pentax for Micro 4/3. Somebody got an AF540 for $279. I almost took it until I saw the ring flash.

séamuis · 04-18-2010, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

I'll worry about it when all 3 of my current DSLRs are dead and I have the spare coin to buy a FF (or other) camera. Right now, the AF160FC on ebay last night was a bit of a stretch for me this month. Somebody leaving Pentax for Micro 4/3. Somebody got an AF540 for $279. I almost took it until I saw the ring flash.

I so want one of those. congrats. im saving all my 'photo funds' for the zeiss planar 50mm ZK.

stevebrot · 04-18-2010, 10:50 AM

I forgot to mention that the Canon giant is also stirring. Many Canon users have discovered that lenses in multiple mounts will adapt to small sensor Canon dSLRs. Takumars are particularly popular. These users have shared their images with other Canon users and the cascade begins. And we all know that Canon users are accustomed to paying high prices for lenses

Steve

séamuis · 04-18-2010, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I forgot to mention that the Canon giant is also stirring. Many Canon users have discovered that lenses in multiple mounts will adapt to small sensor Canon dSLRs. Takumars are particularly popular. These users have shared their images with other Canon users and the cascade begins. And we all know that Canon users are accustomed to paying high prices for lenses

Steve

bastards. who informed the canonites of this? *runs to hide takumars*

JeffJS · 04-18-2010, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

I so want one of those. congrats. im saving all my 'photo funds' for the zeiss planar 50mm ZK.

Just don't tease me with that Planar when you get it. I was going to by a Rolleiflex SL35 50mm HFT Planar and modify it but the price skyrocketed before I decided to push the button.. Oh well..

Aegon · 04-18-2010, 11:13 AM

I've found that used lenses on the forum here are priced fairly when you consider:

(1) foreign markets are more expensive, and many buyers here are from abroad.

(2) buying stateside often incurs 5-10% sales taxes, which is substantial on $500 lenses.

(3) some used lenses are in really good condition. You can look at sample photos to determine that you won't have problems with quality-control issues.

Part 3 is the most interesting to me. It seems that lens quality control is pretty poor. Even the bigger names have problems in the 10-30% failure rate range (by my estimation).

See Joele's thread discussing the warranty work done on his 31mm lens. Firstly, this lens costs so much that it shouldn't be approved unless it is very good, but this is not the case in the real world and we can find sample variations even amongst the highest echelon. Second, as pointed out in that thread, pixel peeping has taken over, so lenses with minute flaws are being returned where in the past the error might never have been noticed on film prints. Third, even if your lens is covered by warranty, getting it fixed is a pain in the butt.

Buying used has the advantage of avoiding many of these issues. It is very nearly preferably to buy a good used copy than a warrantied new copy of unknown quality.

I'm definitely a person who prefers new stuff, but I do recognize that the value of a used lens is quite nearly that of a new lens because of market conditions, sample variations, and the simple fact that a well made lens can perform for a very long lifespan without significant degradation over time.

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04-18-2010, 08:16 AM	#16
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I think you are seeing that the market of desireable old lenses is drying up You simply don't see many used pentax lenses in stores. Lots of canon and nikon, but no pentax (except for the mid 1990's platic junk and kit lenses) Even on EBAY while the number of pentax compatible lenses is increasing, it is all russian and most are BIN, the number of lenses going for auctions is dropping rapidly So true. Ebay is not what it was even a year or two ago. I'm especially blown away at how much "M" primes bring, and manual focus 645 glass (other than the 75mm) has gone from screaming bargain to somewhat scarce.

04-18-2010, 08:37 AM	#17
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Nubi One word of caution is the current DA lines includding ltds and *'s. They will be outdated soon due to sensor coverage issues. Too bad, because some of the DA lenses I think are few of the best that were ever produced. uhh, what?

04-18-2010, 08:40 AM	#18
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	Originally posted by Nubi Just like the market, it will fluctuate, I am sure. One word of caution is the current DA lines includding ltds and *'s. They will be outdated soon due to sensor coverage issues. Too bad, because some of the DA lenses I think are few of the best that were ever produced. There is no need to put panic into people by saying the end is near for asp-c sensor based lenses, it's not

04-18-2010, 08:45 AM	#19
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge There is no need to put panic into people by saying the end is near for asp-c sensor based lenses, it's not No panic.. I just thought it was a BS statement. Even if pentax does release another 'format' camera, I doubt they'll abandon the APS-C anytime soon. Too much invested in it for them. Heck, even the 645D is a cropped sensor from the specs I saw. Surely isn't a full 6cm x 4.5cm...

04-18-2010, 08:54 AM	#20
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by JeffJS No panic.. I just thought it was a BS statement. Even if pentax does release another 'format' camera, I doubt they'll abandon the APS-C anytime soon. Too much invested in it for them. Heck, even the 645D is a cropped sensor from the specs I saw. Surely isn't a full 6cm x 4.5cm... they will surely do like nikon and have a sensor based 'crop' function for the use of aps-c lenses.

04-18-2010, 09:21 AM	#21
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	And the main cause for the scarcity and increase in price for vintage Pentax glass...DRUM ROLL... The various club and individual lens threads at Pentax Forums!!! Case in point might be the Vivitar 28mm variants. Not only has that brand/focal length risen from relative obscurity, but certain versions have generated a cult following based on reviews and photos posted here! It is not unusual for a some to generate prices at auction 2x-3x the price new back in the day. Good glass + exposure => higher prices + scarcity Steve

04-18-2010, 09:25 AM	#22
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by séamuis they will surely do like nikon and have a sensor based 'crop' function for the use of aps-c lenses. And even if they didn't, it is not rocket science to crop out the middle ~16x24 in ACR or some other raw editor. I even do it on film with DA lenses sometimes.

04-18-2010, 09:56 AM	#23
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by stevebrot And the main cause for the scarcity and increase in price for vintage Pentax glass...DRUM ROLL... The various club and individual lens threads at Pentax Forums!!! Case in point might be the Vivitar 28mm variants. Not only has that brand/focal length risen from relative obscurity, but certain versions have generated a cult following based on reviews and photos posted here! It is not unusual for a some to generate prices at auction 2x-3x the price new back in the day. Good glass + exposure => higher prices + scarcity Steve I plead guilty.

04-18-2010, 10:35 AM	#24
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Ira I plead guilty. the Takumar club, being at the top of the list.

04-18-2010, 10:38 AM	#25
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by séamuis they will surely do like nikon and have a sensor based 'crop' function for the use of aps-c lenses. Originally posted by GeneV And even if they didn't, it is not rocket science to crop out the middle ~16x24 in ACR or some other raw editor. I even do it on film with DA lenses sometimes. I'll worry about it when all 3 of my current DSLRs are dead and I have the spare coin to buy a FF (or other) camera. Right now, the AF160FC on ebay last night was a bit of a stretch for me this month. Somebody leaving Pentax for Micro 4/3. Somebody got an AF540 for $279. I almost took it until I saw the ring flash.

04-18-2010, 10:45 AM	#26
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by JeffJS I'll worry about it when all 3 of my current DSLRs are dead and I have the spare coin to buy a FF (or other) camera. Right now, the AF160FC on ebay last night was a bit of a stretch for me this month. Somebody leaving Pentax for Micro 4/3. Somebody got an AF540 for $279. I almost took it until I saw the ring flash. I so want one of those. congrats. im saving all my 'photo funds' for the zeiss planar 50mm ZK.

04-18-2010, 10:50 AM	#27
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I forgot to mention that the Canon giant is also stirring. Many Canon users have discovered that lenses in multiple mounts will adapt to small sensor Canon dSLRs. Takumars are particularly popular. These users have shared their images with other Canon users and the cascade begins. And we all know that Canon users are accustomed to paying high prices for lenses Steve

04-18-2010, 10:52 AM	#28
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by stevebrot I forgot to mention that the Canon giant is also stirring. Many Canon users have discovered that lenses in multiple mounts will adapt to small sensor Canon dSLRs. Takumars are particularly popular. These users have shared their images with other Canon users and the cascade begins. And we all know that Canon users are accustomed to paying high prices for lenses Steve bastards. who informed the canonites of this? runs to hide takumars

04-18-2010, 11:07 AM	#29
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by séamuis I so want one of those. congrats. im saving all my 'photo funds' for the zeiss planar 50mm ZK. Just don't tease me with that Planar when you get it. I was going to by a Rolleiflex SL35 50mm HFT Planar and modify it but the price skyrocketed before I decided to push the button.. Oh well..

04-18-2010, 11:13 AM	#30
Aegon Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,416	I've found that used lenses on the forum here are priced fairly when you consider: (1) foreign markets are more expensive, and many buyers here are from abroad. (2) buying stateside often incurs 5-10% sales taxes, which is substantial on $500 lenses. (3) some used lenses are in really good condition. You can look at sample photos to determine that you won't have problems with quality-control issues. Part 3 is the most interesting to me. It seems that lens quality control is pretty poor. Even the bigger names have problems in the 10-30% failure rate range (by my estimation). See Joele's thread discussing the warranty work done on his 31mm lens. Firstly, this lens costs so much that it shouldn't be approved unless it is very good, but this is not the case in the real world and we can find sample variations even amongst the highest echelon. Second, as pointed out in that thread, pixel peeping has taken over, so lenses with minute flaws are being returned where in the past the error might never have been noticed on film prints. Third, even if your lens is covered by warranty, getting it fixed is a pain in the butt. Buying used has the advantage of avoiding many of these issues. It is very nearly preferably to buy a good used copy than a warrantied new copy of unknown quality. I'm definitely a person who prefers new stuff, but I do recognize that the value of a used lens is quite nearly that of a new lens because of market conditions, sample variations, and the simple fact that a well made lens can perform for a very long lifespan without significant degradation over time.