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04-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I think you are seeing that the market of desireable old lenses is drying up

You simply don't see many used pentax lenses in stores. Lots of canon and nikon, but no pentax (except for the mid 1990's platic junk and kit lenses)

Even on EBAY while the number of pentax compatible lenses is increasing, it is all russian and most are BIN, the number of lenses going for auctions is dropping rapidly
I agree that most of the nice old pentax glass is being snatched up at a incredible rate. I think that with the launch of the K-x a lot of pentax beginners are grabbing these old lenses for cheaper prices then new glass. I mean you can't blame them, I too love old pentax glass and I look forward when I can by more old lenses. Maybe over time the market will come down again and I can once again grab these old, beautiful lenses for cheap, but I really doubt it. To me it looks like pentax is on the rise and that is a great thing, maybe for once this company will get the recognition they deserve.

04-18-2010, 11:23 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tuner571 Quote
I agree that most of the nice old pentax glass is being snatched up at a incredible rate. I think that with the launch of the K-x a lot of pentax beginners are grabbing these old lenses for cheaper prices then new glass. I mean you can't blame them, I too love old pentax glass and I look forward when I can by more old lenses. Maybe over time the market will come down again and I can once again grab these old, beautiful lenses for cheap, but I really doubt it. To me it looks like pentax is on the rise and that is a great thing, maybe for once this company will get the recognition they deserve.
? they got all the recognition they deserved in the past. they were among the biggest and the best. for once? no. for the modern era? yes. and they very much deserve it I think. we all thought the k-m was a success and would help turn things around, but the k-x and k-7 have I think put the Pentax name back on the map.
04-18-2010, 11:47 AM   #33
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If you're just getting into it, you've witnesses historically depressed prices the past couple of years and they're just starting to rebound. People also moved money out of more traditional investments into tangible items, happens every time the market tanks.

Yen fluctuations v. the USD have historically had an effect. By about 1989-90 at the height of the Japan Bubble, Pentax lenses were suddenly no longer bargains compared to Nikon and Canon; if an equivalent lens existed, the Pentax was often much pricier. Supply and demand? Nobody was much buying Pentax, their not having any decent AF yet. Demand was relatively low and supply kept even lower, at the time.

Result was the "legendary" Pentax glass was almost mythical due to it's scarcity here in the US, and especially on the West Coast, even in it's heyday. One had to be extremely fortunate to find used lenses like the SMC-A 100mm f/2.8 Macro at any price even back in the 80's (I was lucky to score an absolutely mint one, $250). Anything but kit zooms and standard primes (and a few other common short focal lengths like 28mm) tended to be special order items from Japan and took months to obtain new. I heard it straight from the regional Pentax rep's mouth that there were only four of the SMC-A 200mm f/4 Macro officially imported and they were all company demos (I couldn't find one new c.1989-90 even though I wanted one. They were all of about $750 at the time.)

I'd say it's this relatively rarity that makes the better and best stuff collectible (and confounded pros who might actually prefered to be/stay Pentax users had it not been handicapping to their careers).
04-18-2010, 12:40 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tuner571 Quote
I agree that most of the nice old pentax glass is being snatched up at a incredible rate. I think that with the launch of the K-x a lot of pentax beginners are grabbing these old lenses for cheaper prices then new glass...
The same thing happened with the launch of the K10D. I paid $125 for a Pentax-A 50/1.7 and felt fortunate to get it for that price! After about a year, the prices fell and remained stable until recently.


Steve

BTW...it is not just Pentax gear. Prices for used large format lenses and accessories are increasing rapidly as well. Prices for roll film holders for 4x5 view cameras have tripled in the last month.

04-18-2010, 12:48 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The Yen is the benchmark for glass. Wit the Euro falling, some of that European glass may become more affordable. The Yen will fall dramatically in the next decade, and so will glass prices. It has to. The pension system now has to liquidate and not buy Japanese debt, flooding the market with Yen. If that is delayed for reasons of bizarre macroeconomic manipulation as the samurai class try to levitate the economy even longer, glass production will have to move offshore, as body production has.

Cameras and lenses are a fascinating insight into the forex markets.
And vice-versa. Thanks for this reminder that supply and demand move in strange ways, with unintended consequences. Weaker currency: everything from elsewhere is more expensive, foreign travel costs more, but export demand rises, fueling production (and job?) increases. Stronger currency: everything from elsewhere costs less, travel is cheap and easy, but export demand drops along with production (and jobs?). And it's not zero-sum gamesmanship; that's mercantilist thinking, deadly poison in a global economy.

I could travel to Europe a decade ago, especially with Lira-Dollar rate at 2000:1. No more. I can barely afford travel in USA, but not Canada (damn the strong Loony!) I can still afford Mexico because its economy is even slightly worse than in USA, so spending pesos is easier. Too bad I haven't looked for lenses there. Hmmm, I'll have to rummage through National Pawnshop branches next time...

And now that Guatemala is continuing to stabilize, the Quetzal is stronger. Xela and Gringotenango and La Antigua aren't quite the bargains they were a few years ago. But there's less roadside trash, fewer shotgun-toting guards, more development, so maybe paying an extra dime for a beer ain't so bad. And they even prosecute a corrupt ex-president! And process film! It just gets better...

QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
bastards. who informed the canonites of this? *runs to hide takumars*
THEY'RE TAKING OUR LENSES! That's even worse than stealing our women or kicking our dogs! The villains! And we can't even use their old glass in return. Yeah, Pentax needs to make a reduced-register EVIL/MILC platform that'll take FD and LTM glass with cheap adapters. Then we'll have some parity. And I won't have to just sit here and look at that pile of FD's and LTM's I ended up with and wonder how I'll ever unload them.

I need to get out more. Go to suburbs. To retirement-home rummage sales. Where some photog's widow(er) has a suitcase full of old Takumar or Mamiya or Meyer or Isco stuff they want to get rid of, "just to get this trash out of here". Or into a decaying city. To a warehouse demolition. Where a palette of boxes marked Asahi or Honeywell was found in some forgotten corner, and shoved aside. Is this too much to hope for?
04-18-2010, 12:52 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote

I need to get out more...where some photog's widow(er) has a suitcase full of old Takumar or Mamiya or Meyer or Isco stuff they want to get rid of
Is romancing the widows part of your plan at all?
04-18-2010, 12:55 PM   #37
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QuoteQuote:
Is this too much to hope for?
yes. yes it is.
04-18-2010, 01:04 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
And vice-versa. Thanks for this reminder that supply and demand move in strange ways, with unintended consequences. Weaker currency: everything from elsewhere is more expensive, foreign travel costs more, but export demand rises, fueling production (and job?) increases. Stronger currency: everything from elsewhere costs less, travel is cheap and easy, but export demand drops along with production (and jobs?). And it's not zero-sum gamesmanship; that's mercantilist thinking, deadly poison in a global economy.

I could travel to Europe a decade ago, especially with Lira-Dollar rate at 2000:1. No more. I can barely afford travel in USA, but not Canada (damn the strong Loony!) I can still afford Mexico because its economy is even slightly worse than in USA, so spending pesos is easier. Too bad I haven't looked for lenses there. Hmmm, I'll have to rummage through National Pawnshop branches next time...

And now that Guatemala is continuing to stabilize, the Quetzal is stronger. Xela and Gringotenango and La Antigua aren't quite the bargains they were a few years ago. But there's less roadside trash, fewer shotgun-toting guards, more development, so maybe paying an extra dime for a beer ain't so bad. And they even prosecute a corrupt ex-president! And process film! It just gets better...



THEY'RE TAKING OUR LENSES! That's even worse than stealing our women or kicking our dogs! The villains! And we can't even use their old glass in return. Yeah, Pentax needs to make a reduced-register EVIL/MILC platform that'll take FD and LTM glass with cheap adapters. Then we'll have some parity. And I won't have to just sit here and look at that pile of FD's and LTM's I ended up with and wonder how I'll ever unload them.

I need to get out more. Go to suburbs. To retirement-home rummage sales. Where some photog's widow(er) has a suitcase full of old Takumar or Mamiya or Meyer or Isco stuff they want to get rid of, "just to get this trash out of here". Or into a decaying city. To a warehouse demolition. Where a palette of boxes marked Asahi or Honeywell was found in some forgotten corner, and shoved aside. Is this too much to hope for?
I think the first part of your post was what I was talking about earlier, but you just put it a little better, because of all the exchange rates and the economy and all of that stuff the prices keep changing rapidly, so it makes it seem like they're really becoming worth a lot more than they're worth. Did that make sense? I think I need to go get some coffee.

04-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #39
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I have one more Tak that I have to get, and I will overpay whatever is necessary to get it.

After that, I'll look for bargains, if any still exist.

I don't believe there are any pawn shop bargains to be found any more, because most of them nowadays are tuned into eBay.

Blame it all on that show Pawn Stars.
04-18-2010, 02:04 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
Is romancing the widows part of your plan at all?
I'd better not get caught at it, oh no. I still have to sleep sometime.

QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico:
Is this too much to hope for?
yes. yes it is.
I was afraid of that. Why did all my relatives have to buy Minoltas?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
I don't believe there are any pawn shop bargains to be found any more, because most of them nowadays are tuned into eBay.

Blame it all on that show Pawn Stars.
Hmmm, I'll have to drive over the Sierra Nevadas to that certain city, and stop in that certain pawnshop next to a certain casino, and see if that Sweet Young Thang I mentioned at the end here is still around, and if the shop still has a case full of M42 and PK glass. And the other pawnshops around the other casinos. They can't ALL be stuck with just F- and FD-mounts. And Minoltas. Hmmm, I think I'm scheduled for a run in that direction in a couple weeks. I'll just need that inheritance to make the trip really worthwhile. Ah, I know! My sis-in-law is in a poker tournament on Mother's Day. Maybe if I hang around and radiate some luck, I'll get a commission. Right. First I have to numb myself to hang around a casino long enough for that...

But yeah, the bay's influence is pervasive and toxic. Not long ago I drove down a rural highway and saw a YARD SALE sign. An old gal (a widow, but not for romancing) had tables set up, loaded with her late husband's hardware... and photo gear. And every item larger than a marble had a printed tag containing an eBay listing, with picture and price. She hadn't listed the stuff, just researched it all and printed comps. "See, this is what it's going for, so that's my price." I got away with a couple magnifiers and some macro tubes, that's all.
04-19-2010, 02:13 AM   #41
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It takes some patience to get older glass for the right price. If you're out to buy that one lenses or couple of lenses just because you need to get your hands one of those 'legendary' lenses (or whatever label they have) you will pay top dollar (or euro, yen etc) because you did not have the patience to wait.

Allhough you will never know for sure if prices keep rising but rising prices would mean also rising prices for new lenses and looking at current prices for Pentax glass that doesn't seem likely.

This month and last month I was on a LBA-spree but paid mostly below current market prices for most lenses, just because I was patient enough to let some 'deals' go and other deals I did not hesistate to push the BIN-button or contact a seller when a lens was sold locally.
04-19-2010, 02:34 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by EricR Quote
It takes some patience to get older glass for the right price. If you're out to buy that one lenses or couple of lenses just because you need to get your hands one of those 'legendary' lenses (or whatever label they have) you will pay top dollar (or euro, yen etc) because you did not have the patience to wait.

Allhough you will never know for sure if prices keep rising but rising prices would mean also rising prices for new lenses and looking at current prices for Pentax glass that doesn't seem likely.

This month and last month I was on a LBA-spree but paid mostly below current market prices for most lenses, just because I was patient enough to let some 'deals' go and other deals I did not hesistate to push the BIN-button or contact a seller when a lens was sold locally.
Yes, a lot of patience is required to find some older lens.
More patient is required still and also more $$$ if one looks for limited edition lens.
Price of lens will fluctuate up and down depending on many factors, including exchange rates, supply and demand, prices of raw material etc.

Now, with the advent of internet, one can source the lens he/she wanted with a click of the finger.

Cheers.
04-19-2010, 03:27 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
I have one more Tak that I have to get, and I will overpay whatever is necessary to get it.

After that, I'll look for bargains, if any still exist.
Ira, I thought that on another thread you spoke of looking for a Helios-44 but prices were skyrocketing. Maybe I misremember.

Anyway, I just looked at the bay and saw quite a few still pretty cheap, a bunch of BIN at US$25-30 total. There's lots of other Russian (excuse me, FSU, Former Soviet Union -- but hey, who are we kidding? they're Russkies) glass out there at good prices. I've never been unhappy with any FSU lenses, and some are Gold Standard for me. The overall glass inflation *has* hit this stuff, compared to 1-2 years ago, but they're still nowhere near the frenzied levels of Taks or even Mamiya and Rikenon.

There are still a few relative bargains to be had, before the bubble bursts.
04-19-2010, 03:36 AM   #44
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Getting expensive?

Well, I just pulled the plug on my activity for THIS one:

[http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270562732086&ssPageName=S...ht_3203wt_1041

With 14 hours to go, it's at $355, and the BINs for these over the last few weeks have been $300. What's this going to end at--$425? $450? A million dollars?

I really, really want this configuration, but how can I justify that when I can get the DA 10-17 or Sigma 10-20 for around $500? (Plus, I can order the Sigma through Wal-Mart and get my wife's 10% discount, and free shipping. (Wish they carried all of the Pentax lenses.)

Last edited by Ira; 04-19-2010 at 03:44 AM.
04-19-2010, 03:38 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Ira, I thought that on another thread you spoke of looking for a Helios-44 but prices were skyrocketing. Maybe I misremember.

Anyway, I just looked at the bay and saw quite a few still pretty cheap, a bunch of BIN at US$25-30 total. There's lots of other Russian (excuse me, FSU, Former Soviet Union -- but hey, who are we kidding? they're Russkies) glass out there at good prices. I've never been unhappy with any FSU lenses, and some are Gold Standard for me. The overall glass inflation *has* hit this stuff, compared to 1-2 years ago, but they're still nowhere near the frenzied levels of Taks or even Mamiya and Rikenon.

There are still a few relative bargains to be had, before the bubble bursts.
I've been looking for them and they've been sparce. I'll check again, although I'm not dying for one of those like I am for the Tak 85. 1.9.
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