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04-20-2010, 02:03 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
No. Just get an old body for a couple hundred bucks, say a K100D Super. It's fantastic for the price. Buy two sets of Eneloop batteries. Put some bubble wrap in whatever bag you already use. Maybe think about a tripod.
Then spend all the rest of your money on the single best piece of glass you can afford.
Next, practice like a demon and learn to be very critical. Read books, read the web, read your manual. Buy a second lens. Sell your TV. Learn how to get the best prints. Buy a third lens. Sell your car. Practice PhotoShop, Gimp, or your digital tool of choice. Buy a fourth lens. Take lots of photos that please your friends and family. Die happy.
I bought a k100D Super a month ago and am working with only manual primes. 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.7 and 28mm f2.8 and my results from this camera seem to be better than my samsung gx-20 which I had before but was stolen. My pictures I feel are much better in general. But with the gx-20 I only had one good standard zoom (tamron 17-50) and a bunch of average zooms. Not many pictures gave me the look I wanted.
My K100D Super is giving me images that I like, in terms of sharpness and contrast I see an improvement. So you can get good lenses for cheap but they will just be mf. Now I do have an Fa77 coming so I should have some fun there :-). I do agree with getting really good with an excellent lens before buying the latest and greatest body...

04-20-2010, 02:17 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jct us101 Quote
Well honestly I don't like this argument, because it makes it sound more like before high ISO ability, people were never able to take good photos like they can now. That's just simply untrue, and the easier we make it for people to take more snapshots at ISO 12,800 and above, the less the photographer is going to be in touch with their camera, at least that's what I think about that.
I read a similar article/post. What he means is that High-ISO capabilities have opened a new/different area for extreme low-light environments. It doesn't mean that higher iso photos are better. Also no matter what iso you're taking the picture in you'll have the same attachment to your camera.
Personally, I like to keep ISO below 400. But, I've used iso 1600 b&w film with pleasant results.

If you are comfortable with your camera, use it. Yes, detail will be better in more recent cameras. But a great lens will shine in any model. You have a 135mm Takumar, that's an excellent piece of glass. Compare it to a 50-200mm ( or 50-300, may perform better against it) at similar situations. Then ask a friend for a k-x, k-7 if possible and do same test. If you compare the camera feel and quality difference, you'll know what to do.
Conversely, find a focal length you like. Try the closest focal length (non-average) prime or a stellar in-range zoom. Compare to an average lens.

Lastly, the least time you spend thinking about gear the more you have to think about photography. Or, the least time you spend thinking about photography the more you can think about gear. Whatever suits your likings.
04-20-2010, 03:04 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
If you are soliciting opinions, I'll offer mine. In general, a camera is just a box to hang the lens on that records the collected light. I'm usually fixed at ISO 100 and I process all of my own JPGs from RAW so second in my consideration would be the camera and how well the sensor records the information. After that, it's about the bells and whistles. I've had satisfactory to great results from all of my Pentax DSLRs (the only ones I have any experience with) so given the choice of a new body or a great lens, I'll take the glass every time. Neither will make me a better photographer but both will help me make great photos. In my humble opinion anyway..
Yes, and Thank you for your opinion.
Looks like the majority member of the forum chose the lens as compared with the body. Thank you, everyone for your feedback.

Cheers.
04-20-2010, 03:13 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jct us101 Quote
If you constantly worry about which camera you want to get, and keep looking at newer ones that are better and have newer features and just plain look cooler, then you're never going to be happy with your photos. I know this from personal experience, all I ever do is go and buy new cameras and decide that I don't like them and then sell them and buy another one. The one thing that's really missing from all of that is the photos though. I'm so obsessed about which cameras to buy that I never even go out and take any photos with them, and when I do I realize that it doesn't even matter which camera you have because they basically take the same kind of photos. Lenses are also a problem, just get yourself some really good ones, and worry about that more than the camera that you're going to take photos with, and you should be happy if it's the photos that you really want to take and not the constant worry about not having the best camera for you and always wanting more or to keep getting different cameras. Just go out and take some photos instead.
You have good points there, jct us101.
The important part is get the best lens your budget permits and not to worry the othe stuff. Good advice.
Cheers.

04-20-2010, 06:38 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by theperception2008 Quote
I bought a k100D Super a month ago and am working with only manual primes. 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.7 and 28mm f2.8 and my results from this camera seem to be better than my samsung gx-20 which I had before but was stolen. My pictures I feel are much better in general.
It can also be that you are getting better photos because you are becoming a better photographer. Now that you don't have to worry about changing your field of view all the time you can focus on the more essential aspects like exposure, composition and focus. Though I would not dismiss the fact that the primes might simply be better than the zooms!

That FA77 is certainly going to be some fun! Congrats on that!
04-20-2010, 03:59 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Since most of the other replies are in favor of better glass, I'll take the opposite point of view to make this thread more interesting.

Points:
1. April Outdoor Photographer has an article by George Lepp: High ISO Changes Everything. He points out that with some of the new high ISO cameras, that some photographers are finding out they can get by with buying their own F4 max telescopic lens rather than having to rent an expensive F2.8 lens, less weight, less cost, more DOF, etc via higher ISO

2. A few days ago, i was shooting an amateur play during the final dress rehearsal, with a guy whose camera shot at 3200 with ease. The quality of his images blew me away. Cameras like the Kx that have 3200 or higher ISO capability are more important than glass if your priority is low light situations. I will be selling a coupla of my lenses to pick up a Kx. I'm not at all against fine lenses, but the mantra of lenses always being more important dates back to film cameras. Newer ISO improvements offer many benefits.
you must also consider the level of quality of High ISO shots. if an ISO 3200 or ISO 6400 image would be as good as that of an ISO 100 image, then I think the body would be a better deal and a good one. but, that's a big but, having such capability would not be as good without having a fine glass with a great IQ. and the idea of having a fast lens would not just be only for lowlight concerns but superb IQ and shallow DOF effect as well.

from what we could see, fine glass retain their value because of their IQ rendering, regardless if a new or better lens comes along, while a fine camera loses it's value when a new and better camera comes along.

anyway, I dunno when and how much would such camera would cost if ever it comes out. maybe in 2-3 years, and probably cost at around $1,200. well that would be just great. and at that time, we would have cameras running around ISO 100,000 on average (200,000 at max ISO).

Last edited by Pentaxor; 04-20-2010 at 10:02 PM.
04-20-2010, 05:11 PM   #22
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I didn't read all the thread, but I would certainly put lenses over camera body hands down.

Given the choice, I'd also put lighting options (hot shoe flash, off camera flash) ahead of body as well. I tend to shoot natural light mostly, but am working on learning off camera lighting as it makes a significant difference in your images.

That being said, if the camera itself isn't intuitive or comfortable to use - then your not likely to use it either...so it can be a catch 22.

c[_]
04-20-2010, 07:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxie Quote
Would buying a better camera give me better photos in terms of colour, contrast, resolution, sharpness?
Or would buying a better lens do that?
A lens will be better if you already have a camera and experience using it.

But if you're looking at buying a camera kit for the first time, I wouldn't go for an entry level camera body. A better featured body will make your learning experience nicer.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I'm not at all against fine lenses, but the mantra of lenses always being more important dates back to film cameras.
Digital cameras have much more features than film cameras had, so there is more differentiation between them and it's worth getting a camera body that you'll enjoy using.

04-20-2010, 07:05 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxie Quote
Hi everyone. I have a question to ponder.

Would buying a better camera give me better photos in terms of colour, contrast, resolution, sharpness?
Or would buying a better lens do that?

I know a better camera gives me more options to play with in terms of better ISO, flexibilities, bigger print size, wireless flash option, video capability, etc. But would it give better photo quality if the lens I use is average?
lens for sure..
04-20-2010, 07:25 PM   #25
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I start buying the lenses for what I want to do in the future. I am not aprofessional photographer but want to have choice. That why I choose these 3

1)Sigma Lens 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC Macro for Pentax
2) pentax M 55mm 1.8

3)
Sigma 105 F2.8 DG EX Macro for Pentax

Plus I will get the lens from the K-X kit the 18-55 and 55-300
04-20-2010, 09:23 PM   #26
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With modern digitals at least I think the lens is the more important of the two, if you find a camera that has the features and ISO range you are looking for and like to shoot with then it doesnt matter the brand, model number, or amount of MEGApixels
04-20-2010, 11:57 PM   #27
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In my opinion, if you have to pick one (any lens(es) that you want or any camera body that you want)... I would take any body you give me and pick the lenses. The funny thing is I would probably ask for a handful of vintage manual focus lenses like the Vivitar Series 1 90mm (Bokina), Pentax-K 35mm 3.5, Pentax-M 50mm 1.4, a long telephoto zoom, and a fisheye is all I would ever ask for.

I love the build quality of the old metal lenses. I can hardly bare the feel of anything in the Pentax-F lineup and I am really glad to see Pentax paying more attention to build quality with the DA line. Compared to new Canon, Sony, and Nikon lenses they are wonderful.
04-21-2010, 12:24 AM   #28
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Glass lasts decades if you take care of it and if K mount will last.
Bodies change every few years or so....

make your own conclusion.....
04-21-2010, 09:39 AM   #29
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best lens (that you keep while you can upgrade your slr)
04-21-2010, 10:39 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by summonbaka Quote
I read a similar article/post. What he means is that High-ISO capabilities have opened a new/different area for extreme low-light environments. It doesn't mean that higher iso photos are better. Also no matter what iso you're taking the picture in you'll have the same attachment to your camera.
Personally, I like to keep ISO below 400. But, I've used iso 1600 b&w film with pleasant results.

If you are comfortable with your camera, use it. Yes, detail will be better in more recent cameras. But a great lens will shine in any model. You have a 135mm Takumar, that's an excellent piece of glass. Compare it to a 50-200mm ( or 50-300, may perform better against it) at similar situations. Then ask a friend for a k-x, k-7 if possible and do same test. If you compare the camera feel and quality difference, you'll know what to do.
Conversely, find a focal length you like. Try the closest focal length (non-average) prime or a stellar in-range zoom. Compare to an average lens.

Lastly, the least time you spend thinking about gear the more you have to think about photography. Or, the least time you spend thinking about photography the more you can think about gear. Whatever suits your likings.
Thank you summonbaka, you understand.

Heck, i always shoot at the lowest ISO i can, perhaps most often between 100 and 400. but when you've been asked to photograph a theatre production, without flashes, and the light is poor, what are you going to do.

Like you, i've bought an F2.8 Tamron zoom 28-75 for this theatre work, but by itself, that F2.8 is not adequate for the low light, besides limiting DOF.

I don't do nightclubs, but i imagine folks that like to take pictures of performers in that environment have the same problem that i experienced.

I think the main reason for the Kx's popularity is its high ISO performance. To the person that mentioned that a camera body is just a box to hang a lens off of, well its a bit more than that.

But if all one does is take landscapes in daylight, or night photos on a tripod, there is no reason to upgrade to the high ISO cameras.
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