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04-26-2010, 06:09 PM   #46
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Worth mentioning is that if you include the lens hood, the DA70 isn't a whole lot more compact than the FA77, whose hood is built in and retracts.

Don't worry about IQ. Worry about price, speed, and whether the DA70 focus advantages (speed and quickshift) are more important than the aperture ring and designed film coverage (DA70 is quasi-ff like many DA lenses)

04-26-2010, 06:32 PM   #47
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Though I still favor the 77 for portraits, this one with the DA70 isn't too bad, either, especially for wide open at ISO 3200. (Wish the focus hadn't locked on her hair, though)

04-26-2010, 08:40 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
And pan fried lamb's brain with a dash of lemon juice too...

Cheers!

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Or scrambled pork brains & eggs.
04-26-2010, 08:45 PM   #49
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In opinion, if you take some time on Photoshop, you don't need spend too much on the lens.
FA 77 or DA 70, the cheaper, the better :P
Now I am selling my lens, and wanna to go back to 18-55
Photoshop is really a worthy investment, take some time to learn it.

04-26-2010, 10:39 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by henryjing Quote
In opinion, if you take some time on Photoshop, you don't need spend too much on the lens.
FA 77 or DA 70, the cheaper, the better :P
Now I am selling my lens, and wanna to go back to 18-55
Photoshop is really a worthy investment, take some time to learn it.
There was a point in time when I had the same idea. But I quickly realised that a good lens is a good lens is a good lens. Photoshop cannot replicate that magical bokeh, change your dof and give you tat extra speed in low light.
04-27-2010, 04:33 AM   #51
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There are two problems with bringing the kit lens into the conversation. The kit only goes to 55mm, so even at its longest it isn't comparable to a 70mm and secondly, it is really slow in comparison (f5.6 at the long end?).

A lot can be done in photoshop, but you can certainly tell the difference between the kit lens and one of these two lenses.
04-27-2010, 04:42 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by henryjing Quote
In opinion, if you take some time on Photoshop, you don't need spend too much on the lens.
FA 77 or DA 70, the cheaper, the better :P
Now I am selling my lens, and wanna to go back to 18-55
Photoshop is really a worthy investment, take some time to learn it.
I used to think this way (i.e. PP over lenses), until I started making money off of my photography. Time is money and if I can achieve the results I want in lens the better.

Also, there are some in lens effects that are very difficult to emulate...and the "magic" of the 77 ltd is one of them.

c[_]
04-27-2010, 05:22 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by ll_coffee_lP Quote
I used to think this way (i.e. PP over lenses), until I started making money off of my photography. Time is money and if I can achieve the results I want in lens the better.

Also, there are some in lens effects that are very difficult to emulate...and the "magic" of the 77 ltd is one of them.

c[_]
I read this on a lot of threads but cant really get it "magic" the ltd brings.
Whats the magic in it? or maybe the term 3D effect

04-27-2010, 05:33 AM   #54
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I actually asked the same question to myself about a year ago. Turns out i got a DA40mm LTD instead =p Between the two lenses though i was going to go with the DA70mm, just because it a whole lot cheaper (almost 1/3 of the price) and the size is too good to pass up. Also i tend to use quick shift a bit and i'd get frustrated with the 77mm not having it
04-27-2010, 06:11 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
I read this on a lot of threads but cant really get it "magic" the ltd brings.
Whats the magic in it? or maybe the term 3D effect
I wish I really knew. All I can say, since someone brought zooms into it, is that the DA70 reminds me of the DA17-70 (one of the lenses I use most). The DA70 is lighter, sharper in a pixel peep, and a stop faster, but the "look" of the shots is very similar to my eyes. The DA70 is still quite useful. I could not have taken the shot posted above with the DA17-70.

The FA77 is different. I really need to get the three lenses out and try to quantify this. Now that I have seen those lovely photos with studio lighting taken with the 55-300, perhaps that needs to be in there as well.
04-27-2010, 07:25 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
I read this on a lot of threads but cant really get it "magic" the ltd brings. Whats the magic in it? or maybe the term 3D effect
For me the magic is in how the lens feels to use, not how it renders, though that is amazing as well. To have something so small and light but yet easy to focus and precise... it just feels like a fine piece of craft. I love the clever hood arrangement as well.

As far as the 3D effect goes, Some use this to describe what is a focal plane effect of isolating the subject from the background. And this depends on the light, subject distance and so on. It also depends on whether you focus just in front of the subject or not.

To be honest I do not get a magical 3D effect from the FA77 like I do from the FA43. I think that is because the former has a flat focal plane whereas the latter does not. I am guessing, but this seems to subtly change how the in-focus area is rendered.

I'd say the FA43 is the only lens I own with this magic. But I use the FA77 more.

QuoteOriginally posted by TheTenaciousOne Quote
Between the two lenses though i was going to go with the DA70mm, just because it a whole lot cheaper (almost 1/3 of the price) and the size is too good to pass up. Also i tend to use quick shift a bit and i'd get frustrated with the 77mm not having it
Quick Shift is nice but I use MF most of the time anyway. Size I cannot complain about since with the hood the FA77 is about the same. I certainly don't need it to be any smaller.

It was that much cheaper? Odd. Let me check eBay and find a Taiwanese seller or something.

<moments pass>

SHUEIDO has these prices:
DA 70mm = $509
FA 77mm = $796

OK, this thread has gone on long enough without a picture.

Thursday over the shoulder

04-27-2010, 08:34 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
If you preceded your statement with "chances are pretty good that...", I'd agree. But there do exist those who would not feel the way you described, and your statement was worded rather more absolutely.
You're funny Marc It was worded rather more absolutely because it was designed to be an emphatic statement and it was directed towards the OP. Nothing more.

I can appreciate that there are those that like the DA70, of course - it's sold well. I can also appreciate that there are those that like the DA70 over the FA77 - as noted, someone in the world has to like liver and brussel sprouts I suppose.

I also appreciate the offer to add conditions to my original post for you to agree with my statement, however you've already clearly indicated that you do agree and that you also get what I was trying to portray to the OP (i.e. MOST people choose the FA77 over the DA70).

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04-27-2010, 08:59 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
I read this on a lot of threads but cant really get it "magic" the ltd brings.
Whats the magic in it? or maybe the term 3D effect
That's a tough one to answer really. Admittedly I don't have the knowledge of the inner workings of a lens that someone like rparmar has.

I don't know why, but the FA77 makes my images pop and really brings them to life. Is this because of some funky 3D thing going on, the very smooth OOF rendering, or the way the focus gradients away?!? I don't know. It's there though and mimicking it in PP would be near impossible. I don't see this kind of affect with the DA70 - I see something that tries to be the same, but just isn't there.

I don't see the 3D effect with my newly purchased FA43 like rparmar does (comparing to my FA77), however this lens renders things like: water, glass, reflections, metal, and people exceedingly well - it really has it's own signature. I see images from the DA40 on this forum frequently and they look very good, but to me they often appear over saturated, over sharp and more "clinical" (if I can use that term).

All my prime lenses have been specifically hand picked because of they way they render an image.

c[_]
04-27-2010, 10:51 AM   #59
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without PP, you can tell that an image is taken from that lens just by looking at it?
for example random pictures are taken by using 3 lenses. A 3rd party lens, a DA zoom lens and the FA77.. can you tell which one is a 77?
04-27-2010, 11:22 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
without PP, you can tell that an image is taken from that lens just by looking at it?
for example random pictures are taken by using 3 lenses. A 3rd party lens, a DA zoom lens and the FA77.. can you tell which one is a 77?
I would say that in all cases if I was taking the pic with the same FOV (i.e. exact same image and we cropped them all to look the same afterwards) I would be able to tell what lens I took it with if you put them back to back. I shoot the FA77 to exploit it's strengths which makes it very apparent to me.

For other people's pix I would say most times I would be able to tell. Lighting, distance from the shooter, etc. play a major role though, so the FA's strengths could be hidden.

My (c) (c)'s.

c[_]
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