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05-01-2010, 02:55 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
I figure he meant 1.7, got the decimal in there and everything.

I also think he's right, it's irrelevant. Instead of an A50/1.4 wide open, you could get away with shooting an A50/1.7 wide open and a half-stop underexposed and bumping exposure up in PP, unless you were at a really high ISO and noise got out of control, or had subject movement. At low ISO, the A50/1.7 might actually take a better image. It's well-known for better sharpness, contrast and flatter field than the f1.4 lenses. The larger DOF covers focus errors too. It's pretty easy to lose that half-stop paper superiority of the A50/1.4 in ordinary shots.
Well, the OP apparently has a choice between the A 50mm f1.4 and FA 50mm f1.4 so your "internet legendary" analysis of the superiority of the A f1.7 is non-existence in this case as was my initial breakdown of the used market value of said lenses.

The reason the f1.7 is legendary at the moment is prices haven't been driven up on them like the various f1.4 lenses. However, I have an M f1.4 & f1.7, A f1.2 and the FA 1.4 and I don't buy your ISO argument so lets agree to disagree on that point so the OP can figure out if he wants to move on either of these lenses or pass for another opportunity.

05-01-2010, 03:23 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote


US prices are not too helpful for the OP, who is in the Phillipines.
True, but it would help if the OP does expand his options rather than to contend with one particular seller. who knows, he might find others in his area who sell at a reasonable price. the last thing the OP would want is to feel like a sucker for getting duped.

anyway, I found an F50/1.7 being sold at only $130. that's right, a rare auto-focus 1.7 for only almost a 1/3 of what was being offered to him on an overly supplied FA50/1.4. I would had gotten it if only I didn't have the FA counterpart. surprisingly though, no one was aware of the reputation of that lens during that event, except for me perhaps. everyone was looking for a 50/1.2. :ugh:
05-01-2010, 07:55 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
I figure he meant 1.7, got the decimal in there and everything.
Right you are! I've edited the original post. I'd say the difference isn't non-existent - just not that important most of the time, for all the reasons you list.
05-01-2010, 08:00 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Well, the OP apparently has a choice between the A 50mm f1.4 and FA 50mm f1.4
Just because those are the options he is *currently* considering doesn't mean those should be the only options.

QuoteQuote:
I don't buy your ISO argument
Why not? It's airtight. The difference between f/1.4 and f/1.7 is half a stop, and i you're using these apertures because you are trying to get shutter speeds up in low light, half a stop of ISO *will* make up the difference. That's just a fact; it's not up for agreement or disagreement. Most people would never know the difference - except to the extent they'd notice the slightly deeper DOF in the f/1.7 shot. Maybe you would notice the difference more than the average person, but i see no reason to assume the Op would be more like you in this respect than like the average person.

05-01-2010, 10:08 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Just because those are the options he is *currently* considering doesn't mean those should be the only options.



Why not? It's airtight. The difference between f/1.4 and f/1.7 is half a stop, and i you're using these apertures because you are trying to get shutter speeds up in low light, half a stop of ISO *will* make up the difference. That's just a fact; it's not up for agreement or disagreement. Most people would never know the difference - except to the extent they'd notice the slightly deeper DOF in the f/1.7 shot. Maybe you would notice the difference more than the average person, but i see no reason to assume the Op would be more like you in this respect than like the average person.
First off, there are times when using a wide open aperture, its about getting an acceptable exposure not just about stop action. Plus, you make lightly of a half a stop when each stop doubles the amount of light of the previous stop. My original posts had to do with stating I thought both lenses were overpriced, but especially the FA f1.4 and that it was pushing prices we see in the U.S. for the A and K f1.2. Your arguments as to whether the f1.7 lens will out shoot the f1.7 lens at low ISO (what ever low is), the f1.7 or f1.4 IS NOT FACT but your opinion. You do realize that the FA 50mm f1.4 and will shoot at f1.7 don't you? You also realize you can use the ISO with the faster lens? However, I'm not too interested in digging up MTR charts on the matter.


Why are you insisting on getting off on tangents? There is a big difference in $190 and $370 dollars of the lenses in the OP. I'm guessing the OP would like more options but perhaps availability is more of an issue in his province.
05-01-2010, 10:09 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Right you are! I've edited the original post. I'd say the difference isn't non-existent - just not that important most of the time, for all the reasons you list.
How much of an increase of light is there from one stop to the next and from one stop to the next half stop? Its not linear.
05-02-2010, 09:38 PM   #37
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well may be i should change my question. what prime lens with 40mm to 55mm should i buy? good quality but not that expensive.
05-02-2010, 09:46 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by poogeek Quote
well may be i should change my question. what prime lens with 40mm to 55mm should i buy? good quality but not that expensive.
Do you prefer auto focus or manual focus at this point?

05-02-2010, 09:49 PM   #39
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QuoteQuote:
I'm guessing the OP would like more options but perhaps availability is more of an issue in his province.
yeah you're right, availability is my problem.. i only buy lens in ebay... in the market place only few sell worldwide thats why i cant buy good lens with good price.
05-02-2010, 09:51 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Do you prefer auto focus or manual focus at this point?
i would like the auto focus but if i have to pay too much for it i guest i can manage the manual focus...
05-02-2010, 09:56 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Well, the OP apparently has a choice between the A 50mm f1.4 and FA 50mm f1.4 so your "internet legendary" analysis of the superiority of the A f1.7 is non-existence in this case as was my initial breakdown of the used market value of said lenses...
This is where I get the flatter field bit:

this from the Auto Extension Tube K manual:

"Lenses not included in the close-up tables are not appropriate for close-up work with extension rings. The 50mm f/1.2 and 50mm f/1.4 lenses are not suitable for close-ups of flat subjects such as documents, but can be used for regular close-ups in which the area of the subject does not reach out to the edges of the picture format."

From this it appears that Pentax is warning you that the 50mm 1.2 and 1.4 lenses don't have as flat a field as the f1.7 lenses (f2 lens not mentioned).


The rest I can see with my own lenses, though it gets to the splitting hairs level for me. Bump the focus ring a bit and there goes all that resolution superiority!

I probably get unnecessarily bothered when US prices are in a thread started by someone who can't get US prices. I figure that would just irritate me, not help.
05-02-2010, 10:09 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
This is where I get the flatter field bit:

this from the Auto Extension Tube K manual:

"Lenses not included in the close-up tables are not appropriate for close-up work with extension rings. The 50mm f/1.2 and 50mm f/1.4 lenses are not suitable for close-ups of flat subjects such as documents, but can be used for regular close-ups in which the area of the subject does not reach out to the edges of the picture format."

From this it appears that Pentax is warning you that the 50mm 1.2 and 1.4 lenses don't have as flat a field as the f1.7 lenses (f2 lens not mentioned).


The rest I can see with my own lenses, though it gets to the splitting hairs level for me. Bump the focus ring a bit and there goes all that resolution superiority!

I probably get unnecessarily bothered when US prices are in a thread started by someone who can't get US prices. I figure that would just irritate me, not help.
Why are you still beating this dead horse? :deadhorse:

Furthermore, I don't recall debating the use of any of these lenses for close-up work with an extension tube. If I were to use a 50mm for macro, it would by my macro-tak or one of my 2 Canon 50mm macros.

As far as the U.S. pricing goes, as already mentioned, I stated that in a previous post that that changed things (post 26). As far as you getting bothered . . . :Violin:

Lets try to get back to the OP and help him out rather than debating which vintage lens is the best because that stuff isn't helping any more than the U.S. pricing.

Last edited by Blue; 05-02-2010 at 10:15 PM.
05-02-2010, 10:14 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by poogeek Quote
i would like the auto focus but if i have to pay too much for it i guest i can manage the manual focus...
How many places to you have to by used lenses from? The other option would be to try and get something from the marketplace here. Shipping may change the price advantage. However, M 50mm f1.4 and f1.7 can be bought for , $100 USD. The M series have some limitations compared to the A series manual lenses but are well built and good optically. Its too bad that the prices are high in your area on new DA 40mm ltd. That is a good AF option on a new lens. I don't know what the prices are like in Tokyo but that may be another option.
05-02-2010, 10:39 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
How many places to you have to by used lenses from? The other option would be to try and get something from the marketplace here. Shipping may change the price advantage. However, M 50mm f1.4 and f1.7 can be bought for , $100 USD. The M series have some limitations compared to the A series manual lenses but are well built and good optically. Its too bad that the prices are high in your area on new DA 40mm ltd. That is a good AF option on a new lens. I don't know what the prices are like in Tokyo but that may be another option.
do you think its worth paying $500 for the DA 40mm ltd? or should i just buy the fa 50mm 1.4 for $470? both brandnew.

Last edited by poogeek; 05-02-2010 at 11:06 PM. Reason: typo error
05-02-2010, 11:00 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by poogeek Quote
do you thing its worth paying $500 for the DA 40mm ltd? or should i just buy the fa 50mm 1.4 for $470? both brandnew.
you just need patience and good timing. most of those good lenses bought at a cheap price weren't acquired easily as well. most buyers had undergone the painstaking waiting game. and they can't even afford to blink one second, otherwise the lens would be gone in a jiffy. what is more annoying is that when you think that you already got a good deal on a lens, then another copy comes along at a much cheaper price or another type of great lens is sold at a price that you paid for to acquire the lens that you bought.
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