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05-02-2010, 08:38 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
the marketplace and ebay....
Ebay has been a bit nuts lately. You have 49mm Pentax caps going for $17, Super Takumar 55mm 2.0 going for $45 and Takumar 35mm f2.0 going for $350. It certainly doesn't mean you have to be like one of those ignorant or rich folks.

I agree with JeffJS, the question comes down to, will anyone pay the price? Would you pay that price? It's all up to you.

05-02-2010, 08:51 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
Where do you see them go for $600? Ebay?



There are a whole slew of 90-105mm macros out there, the 105mm series 1 is certainly not the best of the bunch. David at "Making, Not Taking" did a pretty nifty macro shootout comparison.

The Vivitar Series 1 90mm f2.5 (Bokina) is visibly better at corner sharpness/contrast and I would say slightly better at center sharpness as well.

Macro_LRC_layout_f2513.jpg (image)

I know I'm pixel peeing here but if you're going to pixel peep, macro shots are definitely where you would do it.

The Bokina requires an adapter to reach 1:1 and will not focus to infinity with the adapter on, while this is an inconvenience, I think it's a worthy trade off for superior image quality from macro to telephoto work.

I've heard that the 105mm S1 is not great for portraits and other non-macro work, is this true? I feel like it's more of a rumor.
Just for curiosity sake, have you actually USED any of these lenses?? Or are you drawing your conclusion from 50pixel wide JPGs like the one you linked to?

This is what the reviewer said..

QuoteQuote:
..all the lenses look pretty good save for the Vivitar 90mm f/2.5 MC which doesn't do so well in the early apertures. In fact, it looks aweful. I have noticed this lens tends to have a mind of its own early on. Around f/8 however, it gets back in the game. As in my other tests, the Vivitar Series 1 105mm tends to be softer (and often has a bit more CA) than it's Kiron siblings
I can assure you that the Vivitar S1 105 makes a Great portrait lens. What would make it (or any other macro) not great for such use is the multi-turn throw of the focus ring.

05-02-2010, 08:58 PM   #18
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To clarify, before somebody takes my post the wrong way, I'm not calling anybody a liar. I can only go by my own actual experience. That is with the 105 S1, a Tamron SP90, the Vivitar 100 f3.5, and now the DFA100mm f2.8 WR (which has them ALL beat). The 105 is a fantastic lens but it's something you have to be at the ready with before pressing the shutter button. Of all 4 that I list, it's the slowest (functionally) to actually Use.

05-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Just for curiosity sake, have you actually USED any of these lenses?? Or are you drawing your conclusion from 50pixel wide JPGs like the one you linked to?

This is what the reviewer said..

There's no need to be rude.

There's nothing wrong in drawing conclusion from a well conducted test. We're talking about macro lenses here, where pixel peeping is the norm.

You do know that David's referring to the NON Series 1 (MC) lens while I was referring to the Series 1 (VMC) lens? I mean if you're going to scoff at this test, it'd help if you actually knew what he was referring to.

05-02-2010, 09:09 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
There's no need to be rude.

There's nothing wrong in drawing conclusion from a well conducted test. We're talking about macro lenses here, where pixel peeping is the norm.

You do know that David's referring to the NON Series 1 (MC) lens while I was referring to the Series 1 (VMC) lens? I mean if you're going to scoff at this test, it'd help if you actually knew what he was referring to.
Read my followup post. Wasn't meaning to be rude, just asking a question. Sorry you took it that way.
05-02-2010, 09:19 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Read my followup post. Wasn't meaning to be rude, just asking a question. Sorry you took it that way.
That's ok, I'm sorry that you didn't understand the review.

I actually own the Vivitar Series 1 90mm macro, it's a great lens and can be had for under $300. I think most of these Kiron, Vivitar, Tokina, Elicar and Panagor 90-105mm macros are pretty much neck-to-neck in terms of overall IQ, is any one of them worth twice as much as the other? That's debatable.
05-02-2010, 09:26 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
To clarify, before somebody takes my post the wrong way, I'm not calling anybody a liar. I can only go by my own actual experience. That is with the 105 S1, a Tamron SP90, the Vivitar 100 f3.5, and now the DFA100mm f2.8 WR (which has them ALL beat). The 105 is a fantastic lens but it's something you have to be at the ready with before pressing the shutter button. Of all 4 that I list, it's the slowest (functionally) to actually Use.

I currently have a Tamron 90mm 52B and 52BB macro lenses and a Sigma 105mm EX DG that I replaced my Viv Series 1 with. I think the Sigma is as good because it can be used af and mf. Optically I'd call it a draw. The Sigma may be "warmer." The Series 1 is well built and I like well built lenses. I already posted about why I sold it and want go into that again. However, I've seen VMC Series 1 lenses and the Lester Dine equivalent go for some outrageous prices here at the market place and Ebay ranging from $300 to nearly $600 (~ 15 lenses). However, I've seen some of the better prices at KEH, BH and Adorama's used department. I keep up with certain lenses in a spread sheet and this is one of them.
QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
Ebay has been a bit nuts lately. You have 49mm Pentax caps going for $17, Super Takumar 55mm 2.0 going for $45 and Takumar 35mm f2.0 going for $350. It certainly doesn't mean you have to be like one of those ignorant or rich folks.

I agree with JeffJS, the question comes down to, will anyone pay the price? Would you pay that price? It's all up to you.
Ebay has been nuts on the VMC Series 1 105mm for over 2 years and so has our market place.
05-02-2010, 09:46 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I currently have a Tamron 90mm 52B and 52BB macro lenses and a Sigma 105mm EX DG that I replaced my Viv Series 1 with. I think the Sigma is as good because it can be used af and mf. Optically I'd call it a draw. The Sigma may be "warmer." The Series 1 is well built and I like well built lenses. I already posted about why I sold it and want go into that again. However, I've seen VMC Series 1 lenses and the Lester Dine equivalent go for some outrageous prices here at the market place and Ebay ranging from $300 to nearly $600 (~ 15 lenses). However, I've seen some of the better prices at KEH, BH and Adorama's used department. I keep up with certain lenses in a spread sheet and this is one of them.
.
If I see one, VMC S1 105 I'll watch it out of curiosity. The last one I Watched went for $375 with the case and box. I thought it quite high especially when I paid $175 for mine, New (Old Stock from Trader Jim). Shortly after he sold his last one, prices began to climb considerably. Seems, as I remember it, for his last couple, he was no longer accepting offers and still sold them at asking price ($225 IIRC).

I think it's similar to the FA35 f2.0. A year and a half ago, they could be had brand new for less than $350. Now they are commanding that and more for used copies. It's a nice lens, I'll give it that (sold mine), but didn't impress me enough to pay the cult price it seems that some seem to be demanding.



05-02-2010, 09:49 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Well I could say the same of my sigma, at a significantly lower price AND it has auto focus.....
it doesn't necessarily mean just because it's autofocus makes the lens more expensive than it's manual counterpart. there are manual focus macros that are as expensive or more expensive than the Sigma 105 macro.
05-02-2010, 09:52 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
The Vivitar is a nice lens but it's in no way close to the value of a Kx, not even if it were mint.
just hope the k-x will hold it's original initial value next year and years to come.
05-02-2010, 09:55 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
Ebay has been a bit nuts lately.
so does the buyers who bidded a $350 lens for $1000.
05-02-2010, 09:59 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
it doesn't necessarily mean just because it's autofocus makes the lens more expensive than it's manual counterpart. there are manual focus macros that are as expensive or more expensive than the Sigma 105 macro.
The Viv Series 1 didn't sell for the price of a Zeiss macro when it was new so its safe to say that Viv 1 prices are due in some part to "cult" following.
05-02-2010, 10:03 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
If I see one, VMC S1 105 I'll watch it out of curiosity. The last one I Watched went for $375 with the case and box. I thought it quite high especially when I paid $175 for mine, New (Old Stock from Trader Jim). Shortly after he sold his last one, prices began to climb considerably. Seems, as I remember it, for his last couple, he was no longer accepting offers and still sold them at asking price ($225 IIRC).

I think it's similar to the FA35 f2.0. A year and a half ago, they could be had brand new for less than $350. Now they are commanding that and more for used copies. It's a nice lens, I'll give it that (sold mine), but didn't impress me enough to pay the cult price it seems that some seem to be demanding.

.

Except it's not really a 'cult price' any more than any item sold in any open marketplace is - rarity increases the cost. In this case, it's not a useless collector item, either, it's a well-dampened, solid, smooth-focusing, uber-sharp macro lens that doubles as a wonderful street candid and portrait telephoto.

If you've ever shot a Zeiss 100, Voigtlander 180, or the Viv S1/Lester Dine 105 (as I have,) you'll see that the 105 is cut from the same cloth. It's just a joy to shoot.

Is a collectable copy worth $700? Not to me, right now. $500? Possibly. $300? Most definitely.


.
05-02-2010, 10:06 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
it doesn't necessarily mean just because it's auto focus makes the lens more expensive than it's manual counterpart. there are manual focus macros that are as expensive or more expensive than the Sigma 105 macro.
I never said that thats what I thought.... I just stated it as a plus for the sigma despite it being cheaper.

Of course there are more expensive manual macro lenses... Zeiss anyone?
05-02-2010, 10:08 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
I actually own the Vivitar Series 1 90mm macro, it's a great lens and can be had for under $300.
you'd be lucky to have one under that amount. from what I could tell, you got yours for a bargain because of it's present condition (worn cosmetics and wobbly operation) and the fact that it lacks the 1:1 adapter. mind you that there are factors that affect the price not only due to IQ performance. rarity or abundance (supply), demand, condition and operation are also part that drives up or down the price of the lens.

oh btw, I got one for a bargain. not because it's what it's real value is, but because I have to compensate for it's condition which would require cleaning due to fungus and limited functionality due to mount compatibility that would require an adaptor which would cost an additional moolah. I bit the bullet due to the fact that you rarely see this lens being sold in the used market at a bargain price or even see one being sold regularly to what people perceive as it's market price. for a person who got an extremely mint copy complete with the 1:1 adaptor and box for under $300, all I can say is what a lucky bastard.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 05-02-2010 at 11:18 PM.
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