How could this happen at B&H?

**pntxjack** · 03-31-2011, 10:09 AM

Please refer to the correspondence re: order number 1016453371
You may also want to check my posts prior to the one quoted below:
"I admire your "forgivingness". You will probably live longer than I. I agree that this was not aimed directly at me. But there is no way in the world I could ever be convinced that this box found its way back into the "not yet (already) sold (once, or who knows how many times) inventory" by accident or divine intervention. This was a conscious corporate decision. And I'd bet that someone at B&H has already calculated the "win/loss" profitability of peddling opened crap as new until they get away with it. And I'd bet that the result came up "profitable". Hate to be so paranoid, but you know the name of the game: profit.
I am going to try to post this on the section of the forum you mentioned to see if any one there has a wild enough imagination to come up with a description of the physical plant and inventory handling practices to convince me that this was an isolated event or "accidental". And, so they can check to see exactly how many times this particular camera has been sold and returned, the serial number is 3936970 (its on the outside of the box fellows probably as part of a UPC or other bar code so tracking this camera's travels should be a snap.)"
So, how could this happen? In detail please if you are going to say it was an accident or mistake.

**dadipentak** · 03-31-2011, 11:32 AM - **1 Like**

I think this is silly. I've done a lot of business with B&H and never had a problem. AFIC, it's a straight up outfit. Mistakes happen in every business and bureaucracy

eddie1960 · 03-31-2011, 11:56 AM - **1 Like**

+1, they always seem to be one of the more reputable outfits. Open product that is found without fault is resold by all retailers but usually on open box sales (mostly for bh i would bet in the brick and mortar store).

I spent 25 years at retail, and occasionally an open box made it back to the floor without being marked as such (usually due to a printer malfunction at the return desk)
If by chance it got resold as open we apologized and offered either a discount or one new in a box or an outright refund whichever the client preferred.
Errors happen at all retailers. Not to say some don't try and deceive, for certain there are some of those, BH just never struck me as that type (As long as i've known about them and i first shopped there in the 80's) they have always seemed like an upright retailer
the only reason i don't order hardware from them myself is I can now buy it in Canada for close to if not the same price in most cases and have the Canadian warranty. If I lived south of the border they would be my go to shop (still are for some things like colour film)

henryp · 03-31-2011, 12:11 PM - **1 Like**

dadipentak and eddie1960 have hit the proverbial nail on the head. This was an individual error on the part of an individual human being who, it appears, mis-routed a return. We regret and apologize for his mistake and (since I can identify who here is most likely responsible) I will be happy to have him flogged before he's dismembered.

Seriously, we have quite a large physical plant in the Brooklyn Navy yard and many employees there in various capacities for several departments. One erred. We apologize. I see we issued return authorization for this with a pre-paid UPS return label. When this gets back here we will exchange it for a new camera or issue a refund, per your preference.

Originally posted by pntxjack

...convince me that this was an isolated event or "accidental".

This is not your first order with us, nor your sixth. I'd like to think our past performance is an indication that this incident is as I said it is. YMMV.

Quote:

And, so they can check to see exactly how many times this particular camera has been sold and returned, the serial number is 3936970 (its on the outside of the box fellows probably as part of a UPC or other bar code so tracking this camera's travels should be a snap.)"

A "snap" indeed. It was previously sold once. That customer returned it which is when it was inadvertently mis-routed.

I appreciate your disappointment and frustration so, for the time being I will overlook your caustic denigrating comments about our character and integrity.

Last edited by henryp; 03-31-2011 at 12:36 PM.

SpecialK · 03-31-2011, 03:03 PM

Stuff happens. Reputable companies fix it. If I was Henry I'd refund this wank's money and S&H and put him on the NO ORDERS PERIOD list.

**monochrome** · 03-31-2011, 03:29 PM

The member could have PM'ed Henry through the Forum and had the same outcome he is having now without disparaging a fine company and one of our sponsors.

I own a retail service company. My employees occasionally make mistakes. My suppliers occasionally make mistakes. I occasionally make mistakes. We always correct them at our expense, we always forgive our suppliers, I always forgive (and evaluate) my employees, and we do our best not to embarrass people.

In return I work every day with a wonderful groiup of people, have the opportunity to market best-in-class products and enjoy the trust and loyalty of my clients.

twitch · 03-31-2011, 03:45 PM

Hanlons Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

I think this applies rather well in this case.

**dadipentak** · 03-31-2011, 04:02 PM

I made a mistake once.

**pntxjack** · 03-31-2011, 05:44 PM

Henry, and all--
Sorry for my angry outbursts. I started a course of Chantix a couple of days ago. Side affects: agression, anger, suicidal thoughts (don't be getting your hopes up), etc. I ma not shy, but hope this outburst was contributed to by the meds.
That said, I know mistakes can happen. I have made one or two myself. I must say though that this is not a mistake in sending me an Optio instead of a K5. I'd have laughed if it were.
And Henry--I can't remember how many years I have been a happy B&H customer--many and many products, I think.
I am going back to the other posts and will try to delete them. (Adam--if you are listening, and if I can not delete them, but you can, would you please?)
Thanks and soory all.
Jack
PS
Henry--At least I did not call you a wank, if you are looking for some silver lining. I am in total control over what my response to the name caller (polite, no?) should be.
J.

**dadipentak** · 03-31-2011, 05:53 PM

Well done, Jack.

**ChrisPlatt** · 03-31-2011, 06:04 PM

I don't think the "Ask B&H Photo!" forum was created as a personal complaint
department for PF members, but kudos to Henry for dealing with such posts.

Chris

Wheatfield · 03-31-2011, 09:50 PM

This is all Pentax's fault. If the K5 wasn't such a buggy camera, there would be fewer returns, and consequently, far less chance of an error like this happening.

**dadipentak** · 04-01-2011, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

This is all Pentax's fault. If the K5 wasn't such a buggy camera, there would be fewer returns, and consequently, far less chance of an error like this happening.

I'm complicit: my enthusiasm about the K-5 helped fuel the spike in demand which compounded the return problems. I'll have to atone for that (if time allows, given my other failings ;~)

Bramela · 04-01-2011, 04:15 AM

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong!

(Sorry, just to add a little humour)

**pntxjack** · 04-03-2011, 08:16 AM

Henry--
Sorry to use this venue for this problem, but I tried to PM you without success.
When it rains, it pours.
On Friday 4/1/11 I ordered another K5. That order number is 1016505715.
When the confirmation came through there were two problems and I emailed Manny about them. That email said:
"Dear Manny
HELP!!!
I just placed an order for another K5 using the link on Pentax Forums. (This was about noon PDT 4/1/11. Order number 1016505715.)
Two things went wrong.
1) I meant to buy two extra batteries, but only one appeared on my order. Please add another and charge the same account.
2) I was supposed to get the $100 discount, but it did not show up either. Please correct that for me.
Later today (Friday) I will be returning the first K5 along with the RMA you sent me.
Thanks, and sorry for my earlier outbursts.
Jack Nissen"
This morning (Sunday 4/3/11) I received the following response:
"In regards to the discount, the price of that camera is currently $1499.95 and you have received the discounted price of $1399.95." (The response also addressed the extra battery, but I am fine with that.)
Can you please help re: the confusion about from what starting price the $100 discount is to be applied? (I think my price after the discount should be $1299.00)
Thanks
Jack

03-31-2011, 10:09 AM	#1
pntxjack Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: placerville, ca Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 171	How could this happen at B&H? Please refer to the correspondence re: order number 1016453371 You may also want to check my posts prior to the one quoted below: "I admire your "forgivingness". You will probably live longer than I. I agree that this was not aimed directly at me. But there is no way in the world I could ever be convinced that this box found its way back into the "not yet (already) sold (once, or who knows how many times) inventory" by accident or divine intervention. This was a conscious corporate decision. And I'd bet that someone at B&H has already calculated the "win/loss" profitability of peddling opened crap as new until they get away with it. And I'd bet that the result came up "profitable". Hate to be so paranoid, but you know the name of the game: profit. I am going to try to post this on the section of the forum you mentioned to see if any one there has a wild enough imagination to come up with a description of the physical plant and inventory handling practices to convince me that this was an isolated event or "accidental". And, so they can check to see exactly how many times this particular camera has been sold and returned, the serial number is 3936970 (its on the outside of the box fellows probably as part of a UPC or other bar code so tracking this camera's travels should be a snap.)" So, how could this happen? In detail please if you are going to say it was an accident or mistake.

03-31-2011, 11:32 AM - 1 Like	#2
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	I think this is silly. I've done a lot of business with B&H and never had a problem. AFIC, it's a straight up outfit. Mistakes happen in every business and bureaucracy Last edited by dadipentak; 03-31-2011 at 12:09 PM.

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03-31-2011, 11:56 AM - 1 Like	#3
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	+1, they always seem to be one of the more reputable outfits. Open product that is found without fault is resold by all retailers but usually on open box sales (mostly for bh i would bet in the brick and mortar store). I spent 25 years at retail, and occasionally an open box made it back to the floor without being marked as such (usually due to a printer malfunction at the return desk) If by chance it got resold as open we apologized and offered either a discount or one new in a box or an outright refund whichever the client preferred. Errors happen at all retailers. Not to say some don't try and deceive, for certain there are some of those, BH just never struck me as that type (As long as i've known about them and i first shopped there in the 80's) they have always seemed like an upright retailer the only reason i don't order hardware from them myself is I can now buy it in Canada for close to if not the same price in most cases and have the Canadian warranty. If I lived south of the border they would be my go to shop (still are for some things like colour film)

03-31-2011, 12:11 PM - 1 Like	#4
henryp B&H Photo Representative Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York, NY Posts: 491	dadipentak and eddie1960 have hit the proverbial nail on the head. This was an individual error on the part of an individual human being who, it appears, mis-routed a return. We regret and apologize for his mistake and (since I can identify who here is most likely responsible) I will be happy to have him flogged before he's dismembered. Seriously, we have quite a large physical plant in the Brooklyn Navy yard and many employees there in various capacities for several departments. One erred. We apologize. I see we issued return authorization for this with a pre-paid UPS return label. When this gets back here we will exchange it for a new camera or issue a refund, per your preference. Originally posted by pntxjack ...convince me that this was an isolated event or "accidental". This is not your first order with us, nor your sixth. I'd like to think our past performance is an indication that this incident is as I said it is. YMMV. Quote: And, so they can check to see exactly how many times this particular camera has been sold and returned, the serial number is 3936970 (its on the outside of the box fellows probably as part of a UPC or other bar code so tracking this camera's travels should be a snap.)" A "snap" indeed. It was previously sold once. That customer returned it which is when it was inadvertently mis-routed. I appreciate your disappointment and frustration so, for the time being I will overlook your caustic denigrating comments about our character and integrity. Last edited by henryp; 03-31-2011 at 12:36 PM.

03-31-2011, 03:03 PM	#5
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Stuff happens. Reputable companies fix it. If I was Henry I'd refund this wank's money and S&H and put him on the NO ORDERS PERIOD list.

03-31-2011, 03:29 PM	#6
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	The member could have PM'ed Henry through the Forum and had the same outcome he is having now without disparaging a fine company and one of our sponsors. I own a retail service company. My employees occasionally make mistakes. My suppliers occasionally make mistakes. I occasionally make mistakes. We always correct them at our expense, we always forgive our suppliers, I always forgive (and evaluate) my employees, and we do our best not to embarrass people. In return I work every day with a wonderful groiup of people, have the opportunity to market best-in-class products and enjoy the trust and loyalty of my clients.

03-31-2011, 03:45 PM	#7
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Hanlons Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" I think this applies rather well in this case.

03-31-2011, 04:02 PM	#8
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	I made a mistake once.

03-31-2011, 05:44 PM	#9
pntxjack Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: placerville, ca Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 171 Original Poster	Henry, and all-- Sorry for my angry outbursts. I started a course of Chantix a couple of days ago. Side affects: agression, anger, suicidal thoughts (don't be getting your hopes up), etc. I ma not shy, but hope this outburst was contributed to by the meds. That said, I know mistakes can happen. I have made one or two myself. I must say though that this is not a mistake in sending me an Optio instead of a K5. I'd have laughed if it were. And Henry--I can't remember how many years I have been a happy B&H customer--many and many products, I think. I am going back to the other posts and will try to delete them. (Adam--if you are listening, and if I can not delete them, but you can, would you please?) Thanks and soory all. Jack PS Henry--At least I did not call you a wank, if you are looking for some silver lining. I am in total control over what my response to the name caller (polite, no?) should be. J.

03-31-2011, 05:53 PM	#10
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Well done, Jack.

03-31-2011, 06:04 PM	#11
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,694	I don't think the "Ask B&H Photo!" forum was created as a personal complaint department for PF members, but kudos to Henry for dealing with such posts. Chris

03-31-2011, 09:50 PM	#12
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	This is all Pentax's fault. If the K5 wasn't such a buggy camera, there would be fewer returns, and consequently, far less chance of an error like this happening.

04-01-2011, 04:13 AM	#13
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by Wheatfield This is all Pentax's fault. If the K5 wasn't such a buggy camera, there would be fewer returns, and consequently, far less chance of an error like this happening. I'm complicit: my enthusiasm about the K-5 helped fuel the spike in demand which compounded the return problems. I'll have to atone for that (if time allows, given my other failings ;~)

04-01-2011, 04:15 AM	#14
Bramela Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Newcastle Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,284	I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong! (Sorry, just to add a little humour)

04-03-2011, 08:16 AM	#15
pntxjack Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: placerville, ca Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 171 Original Poster	Henry-- Sorry to use this venue for this problem, but I tried to PM you without success. When it rains, it pours. On Friday 4/1/11 I ordered another K5. That order number is 1016505715. When the confirmation came through there were two problems and I emailed Manny about them. That email said: "Dear Manny HELP!!! I just placed an order for another K5 using the link on Pentax Forums. (This was about noon PDT 4/1/11. Order number 1016505715.) Two things went wrong. 1) I meant to buy two extra batteries, but only one appeared on my order. Please add another and charge the same account. 2) I was supposed to get the $100 discount, but it did not show up either. Please correct that for me. Later today (Friday) I will be returning the first K5 along with the RMA you sent me. Thanks, and sorry for my earlier outbursts. Jack Nissen" This morning (Sunday 4/3/11) I received the following response: "In regards to the discount, the price of that camera is currently $1499.95 and you have received the discounted price of $1399.95." (The response also addressed the extra battery, but I am fine with that.) Can you please help re: the confusion about from what starting price the $100 discount is to be applied? (I think my price after the discount should be $1299.00) Thanks Jack