success... but...

icywarm · 09-30-2010, 10:17 PM

Ok I just developed my first roll of BW ISO 100 120... This was more a test roll to see if I could figure out how to load it, dev, ect...

I did notice one thing...

I seemed to blow my highlights on the film...

The film is Blue and Clear.... I washed it before dev, stop, fix, rinse, flow...

I couldn't find a proper chart for the film, so I guessed D-76 at 1:1 for 9 mins at c. 25 degrees... I stopped for 45 sec, fixed for 10... I used 1:4 since I knew I would toss it... washed for 10-15 and used flow for a min or two...

My question is: if I want my highlights(blue sky, lamps, etc) to be less exposed I need to dev for a short period?

I will bring down the temp of my next roll...

Oh I miss film.. it has been 15 years... I feel like a baby learning to walk!

HGMonaro · 09-30-2010, 10:51 PM

yes, develop less... but don't get carried away trying to get detail into a spectacular highlight (eg a light bulb or reflection off metal, etc). Quite ok to have those if they were in the pic to start with. If you really want to dial your development time in, do a Zone system speed and development test. Very useful procedure even for roll film.

Nesster · 10-01-2010, 07:31 AM

What film was it? And what camera?
We may have specific recommendations based on the above.

Were the blown highlights in the scan, or actually on the film itself? Depending on what's in the picture, I find scanner auto exposure tends to blow the highlights, assuming a 'typical' snap shot type of shot with a chunk of sky and the actual subject not as bright (i.e. the bias is to over-expose for sky in the scan).

stevebrot · 10-01-2010, 07:48 AM

9 minutes at 25 C in D76 1:1? That is probably your problem. That time would be appropriate for most films at 20 C.

1:4 dilution of the fixer? That is a new one for me. I would suspect that the negatives are under-fixed as well. You can re-fix in full strength and see if that improves things.

You may need to wash longer to get rid of the blue tint.

Steve

P.S. Per Nesster...let us know the film and we can give you specific direction for time/temp, fix, and wash.

icywarm · 10-01-2010, 08:16 AM

not scanned yet, V700 has not shown up yet, but I can see that it is clearly underdeveloped...

Fomapan Classic 100 - cheap cheap... but I want to practice on cheap film... the blue tint is a known 'problem' with the film, it's base is bluish and there is an anti-curl coating on it...

1:4 for fixer is the ratio I found online... use it and dump it... but since reading more I think I find a funnel and reuse it at stock strength...

I know I didn't wash long enough... but when I saw the film it look to be solid black boxes and I assumed I messed up... but I was wrong... I will refix/wash tonight or tomorrow...

camera is Ricoh Super 66... twin lens... I wanted to see if I could develop film before I bought a 645N or other...

Nesster · 10-01-2010, 08:52 AM

OK, this is good info. Foma 100 is an excellent film by the way, I think.
When I process Foma 120 film the blue stain goes into the fixer, and even after fixing and washing the film remains distinctly blue. So I think you're normal there.

The Foma fact sheet recommends D-76 1:1 at 20C for 8-10 minutes
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/Fomapan_100.pdf

25C is 77F and 8-10minutes translates to 5-6:15 at that hotter temperature.
Film Development Temperature Adjustment Chart - Freestyle Photographic Supplies

In other words you over-developed it.

The reason I asked camera is the possibility of a slow shutter - in other words, if your processing was about right, the next suspicion is that slow shutter throws off metered exposure. (Foma 100 has extremely good latitude, however).

JeffJS · 10-01-2010, 09:07 AM

I know you're supposed to presoak Color films (and I think reversal films as well) to help bring them up to temperature and due to the short develop times. Why prewash B&W film? Everything I've ever read (translate, haven't read everything available), says don't prewash B&W film. Also, you can knock your final wash times way down if you use HypoClear after the fix cycle.

stevebrot · 10-01-2010, 10:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by icywarm

Fomapan Classic 100 - cheap cheap... but I want to practice on cheap film... the blue tint is a known 'problem' with the film, it's base is bluish and there is an anti-curl coating on it...

1:4 for fixer is the ratio I found online... use it and dump it... but since reading more I think I find a funnel and reuse it at stock strength...

1+ per Jussi's comments

I shoot the Fomapan 100 in 4x5 and it is a nice film. I have shot it in 120 and yes, it does have a bluish tint on the negatives, but I found that the tint is minimized with 30 minutes wash. One characteristic of the film is that development moves quickly such that dilution is required for some developers. Add in the high temperature that you were working at and I would expect that both density and contrast are pretty extreme. In regards to diluting the fixer, it depends on the fixer. I assumed you were using a standard fixer. In which case, dilution is not a good idea. On the other hand, "rapid" fixer formulations usually require dilution. In any case, follow the directions for the chemistry you are using. (See package insert or manufacturer Web site.)

---------- Post added 10-01-10 at 10:40 AM ----------

Originally posted by JeffJS

...Why prewash B&W film?...

There are several reasons I have read:

Some films have a fairly intense anti-halation dye that comes out during processing. A water pre-soak allows for removal of the dye so that it does not color any of the chemistry "downstream" that you might want to reuse.
Reportedly provides faster and more consistent start for development
Provides pre-processing temperature nudge for tank, reels, and film
Per instructions for some films
Ansel Adams did it

I personally pre-soak for 4x5 based on the practice and advice of more experienced shooters. I generally have not for smaller formats, mostly because I was not taught that way

Steve

icywarm · 10-01-2010, 11:02 AM

With this fomapan... it was like purple cool-aid for several rinses...

So if I read the charts right... i could try dev at 1:3 for 15-17 mins at 20 degrees... it would give me a nice slow dev and should soften the contrast... correct? I think this roll is slightly underexposed but I am hoping the 2 stops of lat in the film will be enough to cover most of the frame... they are portraits, so detail would be good....

Nesster · 10-01-2010, 11:29 AM - **1 Like**

Still using D-76? I'd stick to manufacturer's recommendations, i.e. dilute 1:1 8-10 minutes, using standard agitation: 30sec to start, then either 5 sec every 30, or 10sec every 1min (I have tried both and did not see a diff, so I do 10sec each minute).

I shot my first roll of Foma 100 35mm size at ASA400 by mistake, yet the film came out beautifully using the standard developing instructions. I think you'll do OK... it's better to get results from standard procedure first, then experiment.

tuco · 10-02-2010, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

...Why prewash B&W film? Everything I've ever read (translate, haven't read everything available), says don't prewash B&W film.

In the case of the OP's film and developer, a presoak is not needed but some developers specifically tell you to presoak (eg PMK Pyro).

John Poirier · 10-03-2010, 09:12 AM

Hi icywarm

I strongly suggest that you buy one or two good used books about darkroom and study the basics. Books have the advantage of providing a comprehensive picture of the process as well as allowing you to access reliable information quickly and at the time of your choice. In books you will find the answers to questions that you won't even think of on your own. Used books are readily available and affordable. You never know- you might even find something at your local library.

Looking at your proposed 15-17 minute development in D-76 1:3, it seems very dubious to me. Longer development counteracts the effects of higher dilution, so controlling contrast by this means is questionable.

At this point, you don't really know whether you have a contrast problem because your first roll was grossly overdeveloped.

You need to set up a proper baseline by processing your next film at the standard D-76 dilution of 1:1, at the standard temperature of 20 degrees, using the manufacturer's recommended time.

A good darkroom book should help you with basic criteria for evaluating the results.

John

Ratmagiclady · 10-03-2010, 09:30 AM

Yeah. BTW, if the camera is new to you or has been put away a long time, you may wish to start with very-standard development times and temperatures to be sure your shutter speeds are about right. (Though in this case, it seems pretty clear that was overdeveloped, etc. )

I grew to have a suspicion about one of my Mamiya's lenses which later manifested a lube problem: I didn't see oil on the blades until after a move, but if that'd been there all along, that lens may have been stopping down more slowly than it was supposed to and complicating matters. (I was getting fairly blocked-up highlights a lot, too, mostly attributable to a fussy film and developer combination, along with my habit of developing a bit generously. )

So it's good to start with a familiar or standard film and development scheme, to be sure everything's working nice, too.

09-30-2010, 10:17 PM	#1
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278	success... but... Ok I just developed my first roll of BW ISO 100 120... This was more a test roll to see if I could figure out how to load it, dev, ect... I did notice one thing... I seemed to blow my highlights on the film... The film is Blue and Clear.... I washed it before dev, stop, fix, rinse, flow... I couldn't find a proper chart for the film, so I guessed D-76 at 1:1 for 9 mins at c. 25 degrees... I stopped for 45 sec, fixed for 10... I used 1:4 since I knew I would toss it... washed for 10-15 and used flow for a min or two... My question is: if I want my highlights(blue sky, lamps, etc) to be less exposed I need to dev for a short period? I will bring down the temp of my next roll... Oh I miss film.. it has been 15 years... I feel like a baby learning to walk!

10-01-2010, 10:25 AM - 1 Like	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by icywarm Fomapan Classic 100 - cheap cheap... but I want to practice on cheap film... the blue tint is a known 'problem' with the film, it's base is bluish and there is an anti-curl coating on it... 1:4 for fixer is the ratio I found online... use it and dump it... but since reading more I think I find a funnel and reuse it at stock strength... 1+ per Jussi's comments I shoot the Fomapan 100 in 4x5 and it is a nice film. I have shot it in 120 and yes, it does have a bluish tint on the negatives, but I found that the tint is minimized with 30 minutes wash. One characteristic of the film is that development moves quickly such that dilution is required for some developers. Add in the high temperature that you were working at and I would expect that both density and contrast are pretty extreme. In regards to diluting the fixer, it depends on the fixer. I assumed you were using a standard fixer. In which case, dilution is not a good idea. On the other hand, "rapid" fixer formulations usually require dilution. In any case, follow the directions for the chemistry you are using. (See package insert or manufacturer Web site.) ---------- Post added 10-01-10 at 10:40 AM ---------- Originally posted by JeffJS ...Why prewash B&W film?... There are several reasons I have read: Some films have a fairly intense anti-halation dye that comes out during processing. A water pre-soak allows for removal of the dye so that it does not color any of the chemistry "downstream" that you might want to reuse. Reportedly provides faster and more consistent start for development Provides pre-processing temperature nudge for tank, reels, and film Per instructions for some films Ansel Adams did it I personally pre-soak for 4x5 based on the practice and advice of more experienced shooters. I generally have not for smaller formats, mostly because I was not taught that way Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 10-01-2010 at 10:41 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K-7 High ISO Success!	Adam	Pentax DSLR Discussion	108	03-03-2013 09:29 AM
So, was K-7 a success??	Nubi	Pentax DSLR Discussion	99	07-20-2010 03:09 PM
K-M looks like a great success	laissezfaire	Pentax DSLR Discussion	1	03-11-2009 09:27 PM
Some success finally...	SCGushue	Post Your Photos!	17	07-10-2007 08:06 PM
a bit of macro success...	sashae	Post Your Photos!	3	03-29-2007 03:54 PM

09-30-2010, 10:51 PM	#2
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	yes, develop less... but don't get carried away trying to get detail into a spectacular highlight (eg a light bulb or reflection off metal, etc). Quite ok to have those if they were in the pic to start with. If you really want to dial your development time in, do a Zone system speed and development test. Very useful procedure even for roll film.

10-01-2010, 07:31 AM	#3
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	What film was it? And what camera? We may have specific recommendations based on the above. Were the blown highlights in the scan, or actually on the film itself? Depending on what's in the picture, I find scanner auto exposure tends to blow the highlights, assuming a 'typical' snap shot type of shot with a chunk of sky and the actual subject not as bright (i.e. the bias is to over-expose for sky in the scan).

10-01-2010, 07:48 AM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	9 minutes at 25 C in D76 1:1? That is probably your problem. That time would be appropriate for most films at 20 C. 1:4 dilution of the fixer? That is a new one for me. I would suspect that the negatives are under-fixed as well. You can re-fix in full strength and see if that improves things. You may need to wash longer to get rid of the blue tint. Steve P.S. Per Nesster...let us know the film and we can give you specific direction for time/temp, fix, and wash.

10-01-2010, 08:16 AM	#5
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	not scanned yet, V700 has not shown up yet, but I can see that it is clearly underdeveloped... Fomapan Classic 100 - cheap cheap... but I want to practice on cheap film... the blue tint is a known 'problem' with the film, it's base is bluish and there is an anti-curl coating on it... 1:4 for fixer is the ratio I found online... use it and dump it... but since reading more I think I find a funnel and reuse it at stock strength... I know I didn't wash long enough... but when I saw the film it look to be solid black boxes and I assumed I messed up... but I was wrong... I will refix/wash tonight or tomorrow... camera is Ricoh Super 66... twin lens... I wanted to see if I could develop film before I bought a 645N or other...

10-01-2010, 08:52 AM	#6
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	OK, this is good info. Foma 100 is an excellent film by the way, I think. When I process Foma 120 film the blue stain goes into the fixer, and even after fixing and washing the film remains distinctly blue. So I think you're normal there. The Foma fact sheet recommends D-76 1:1 at 20C for 8-10 minutes http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/Fomapan_100.pdf 25C is 77F and 8-10minutes translates to 5-6:15 at that hotter temperature. Film Development Temperature Adjustment Chart - Freestyle Photographic Supplies In other words you over-developed it. The reason I asked camera is the possibility of a slow shutter - in other words, if your processing was about right, the next suspicion is that slow shutter throws off metered exposure. (Foma 100 has extremely good latitude, however).

10-01-2010, 09:07 AM	#7
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	I know you're supposed to presoak Color films (and I think reversal films as well) to help bring them up to temperature and due to the short develop times. Why prewash B&W film? Everything I've ever read (translate, haven't read everything available), says don't prewash B&W film. Also, you can knock your final wash times way down if you use HypoClear after the fix cycle.

10-01-2010, 11:02 AM	#9
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	With this fomapan... it was like purple cool-aid for several rinses... So if I read the charts right... i could try dev at 1:3 for 15-17 mins at 20 degrees... it would give me a nice slow dev and should soften the contrast... correct? I think this roll is slightly underexposed but I am hoping the 2 stops of lat in the film will be enough to cover most of the frame... they are portraits, so detail would be good....

10-01-2010, 11:29 AM - 1 Like	#10
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Still using D-76? I'd stick to manufacturer's recommendations, i.e. dilute 1:1 8-10 minutes, using standard agitation: 30sec to start, then either 5 sec every 30, or 10sec every 1min (I have tried both and did not see a diff, so I do 10sec each minute). I shot my first roll of Foma 100 35mm size at ASA400 by mistake, yet the film came out beautifully using the standard developing instructions. I think you'll do OK... it's better to get results from standard procedure first, then experiment.

10-02-2010, 07:56 PM	#11
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	Originally posted by JeffJS ...Why prewash B&W film? Everything I've ever read (translate, haven't read everything available), says don't prewash B&W film. In the case of the OP's film and developer, a presoak is not needed but some developers specifically tell you to presoak (eg PMK Pyro).

10-03-2010, 09:12 AM	#12
John Poirier Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gabriola Island Posts: 619	Hi icywarm I strongly suggest that you buy one or two good used books about darkroom and study the basics. Books have the advantage of providing a comprehensive picture of the process as well as allowing you to access reliable information quickly and at the time of your choice. In books you will find the answers to questions that you won't even think of on your own. Used books are readily available and affordable. You never know- you might even find something at your local library. Looking at your proposed 15-17 minute development in D-76 1:3, it seems very dubious to me. Longer development counteracts the effects of higher dilution, so controlling contrast by this means is questionable. At this point, you don't really know whether you have a contrast problem because your first roll was grossly overdeveloped. You need to set up a proper baseline by processing your next film at the standard D-76 dilution of 1:1, at the standard temperature of 20 degrees, using the manufacturer's recommended time. A good darkroom book should help you with basic criteria for evaluating the results. John

10-03-2010, 09:30 AM	#13
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Yeah. BTW, if the camera is new to you or has been put away a long time, you may wish to start with very-standard development times and temperatures to be sure your shutter speeds are about right. (Though in this case, it seems pretty clear that was overdeveloped, etc. ) I grew to have a suspicion about one of my Mamiya's lenses which later manifested a lube problem: I didn't see oil on the blades until after a move, but if that'd been there all along, that lens may have been stopping down more slowly than it was supposed to and complicating matters. (I was getting fairly blocked-up highlights a lot, too, mostly attributable to a fussy film and developer combination, along with my habit of developing a bit generously. ) So it's good to start with a familiar or standard film and development scheme, to be sure everything's working nice, too.