[lbenac]

We started a discussion with Agnostic(Pepjin) in the SLR forum but we agreed to move it to its own thread in order not to hijack the original thread..
I have been doing stand development and always produce images with less contrast than usually accepted for visual impact but lot of shadow detail.
This was on the back of my mind for some time but finally Agnostic picked-up on this and made this useful remark and provided an example.
I have gone back to my most recent images to had some contrast. A lot for me and likely too little for Pepjin

Here are some example open for discussion.

Silver=low contrast


Black=higher contrast


Black


Black


Cheers,

Luc

[erkie]

Personally in the Lighthouse park imagewhere you show both treatments I prefer the original. For me the amount of contrast necessary would vary with the intended mood or feeling of the photograph. I love stand developemet when there is great detail and texture in the shadows But some images just beg for high contrast. I don't feel like it's one size fits all. Personally I think you do GREAT high detail developement. But I don't have to be hit over the head with high contrast images or Kodachrome saturated colors to find an image appealing. If the situation warrants it though I love it.

Not much help I know. But my 2c.

Eric

[Agnostic]

Agnostic picked-up on this and made this useful remark and provided an example.
I have gone back to my most recent images to had some contrast. A lot for me and likely too little for Pepijn

Cheers,

Luc

Actually the first one I prefer your original. Of course like erkie said it depends a lot on the subject matter. In that first shot the mood for me is determined for a large part by the atmospheric fading in the background. I think against such a background you don't need a whole lot of contrast to set the mood.

We obviously have different tastes. The second and third I still find a bit too light, the third more so than the second. As I said before I think you shots are technically immaculate, but I guess for me visual impact relies more on simplicity and for you more on detail.

I find the amount of detail in those second two images a little distracting, especially because a lot of the detail is represented at very similar tonal ranges. In the first shot the detail in the foreground is ofset by the fading tones and simplicity of the background which provide a resting point for the eye that the second two are slightly lacking for my taste.

And in the end of course it is matter of taste.
I think you compositions are very good and as I said your negatives and scans look technically immaculate to my eye. From the shot I played with they seem to allow for a big range of pp choices without running into difficulties.

[lbenac]

Thank you for the comments. I am glad we agree on the first shot

It is true that I enjoy both a simple shot i.e. first one but also a shot with lots of details. In the later I like to look at it several time and pick-up a little bit of detail that i did not see before i.e a reflection on water, a texture on a stone, an expression,......... I still like to have an overall good composition (this works better on a print than on a web image).

That said, I think that I will follow your advice on several shots. After going through the exercise, I started to like the shots better with the increase black - case in point the dam shot. What seems to work for me, is doing my usual PP and then go back to the image adding a curve with "Increase contrast" blended at 225 so that the highlights do not cook and tweak opacity to taste.

I did set myself a challenge to take some shots in the spirit of yours next time I am in Europe - which is this Christmas. Vancouver as a city, is not the most exciting for street shooting.

Cheers,

Luc

Actually the first one I prefer your original. Of course like erkie said it depends a lot on the subject matter. In that first shot the mood for me is determined for a large part by the atmospheric fading in the background. I think against such a background you don't need a whole lot of contrast to set the mood.

We obviously have different tastes. The second and third I still find a bit too light, the third more so than the second. As I said before I think you shots are technically immaculate, but I guess for me visual impact relies more on simplicity and for you more on detail.

I find the amount of detail in those second two images a little distracting, especially because a lot of the detail is represented at very similar tonal ranges. In the first shot the detail in the foreground is ofset by the fading tones and simplicity of the background which provide a resting point for the eye that the second two are slightly lacking for my taste.

And in the end of course it is matter of taste.
I think you compositions are very good and as I said your negatives and scans look technically immaculate to my eye. From the shot I played with they seem to allow for a big range of pp choices without running into difficulties.

[lbenac]

Personally in the Lighthouse park image where you show both treatments I prefer the original.

I think that we all agree in that case

For me the amount of contrast necessary would vary with the intended mood or feeling of the photograph. I love stand development when there is great detail and texture in the shadows But some images just beg for high contrast. I don't feel like it's one size fits all. Personally I think you do GREAT high detail development. But I don't have to be hit over the head with high contrast images or Kodachrome saturated colors to find an image appealing. If the situation warrants it though I love it.
Not much help I know. But my 2c.Eric

Thanks. As always technique is only the first step to open the door to artistic vision, so that is one partially down....
My objective is to find a better balance so I do not miss the time when a shot requires more black/contrast. This is what happened with the force of habit and Pepjin pointed this out quite rightly. I had already this feeling, but needed somebody to put it in front of my noise so that I could make that change.

Thank you for pitching in.


Luc

[Vertex Ninja]

...(this works better on a print than on a web image)...

I think this can be a big part of the decision. I personally like a long tonal scale with lots of detail, particularly in landscapes. In a print, crushed blacks can look really powerful as a whole... a few feet back. On the other hand, a long tonal range and detail in both the shadows and highlights can invite you to get closer and want to step into the print, like looking through a surreal window. Like everyone said though, every image is different and there's no accounting for taste. It's like pt/pd vs silver gelatin, Velvia vs Portra, favorite colors, etc. Luc, I like both your style and Agnostic's and thankfully there's room for both.

PS. That first shot reminds me a little bit of this one: http://www.davideisenlord.com/?page_id=75

[lbenac]

I think this can be a big part of the decision. I personally like a long tonal scale with lots of detail, particularly in landscapes. In a print, crushed blacks can look really powerful as a whole... a few feet back. On the other hand, a long tonal range and detail in both the shadows and highlights can invite you to get closer and want to step into the print, like looking through a surreal window. Like everyone said though, every image is different and there's no accounting for taste. It's like pt/pd vs silver gelatin, Velvia vs Portra, favorite colors, etc.

Nicely put.
I guess that we will talk some more about this after I have tried Divided Pyrocat HD as per our discussion.

Luc, I like both your style and Agnostic's and thankfully there's room for both.

Thanks Bryan, I am also a big fan of Pepjin's bikes and all..

PS. That first shot reminds me a little bit of this one: http://www.davideisenlord.com/?page_id=75

I wish - that is a nice shot.

Cheers,

Luc

[lbenac]

Talking of contrast - I am getting to like TriX @ 1250 in Diafine. Granted there is not much to developing in Diafine, it is pretty much foolproof but hand held at 1250 is pretty great during winter days.

LX - K85/1.8 - TriX@1250 - Diafine 3'+3'


Cropped




Initially I was going to shoot the pigeons looking for grain on the train track but my dog was faster and went for them before I could issue a command.

Cheers,

Luc