Milky Negs

icywarm · 11-18-2010, 10:20 PM

I am getting Milky Negs... the exposure seems to be good... am i just not fixing long enough?

Thanks

HGMonaro · 11-18-2010, 10:24 PM

yep, or the fixer is exhausted. Mix up some more and refix for the appropiate time, then rewash.

**ChrisPlatt** · 11-23-2010, 06:08 PM

Yes, refix in fresh fixer or you will lose your images.

Chris

GeneV · 11-26-2010, 09:45 PM

If the negs are milky in spots or for strips of frames, check how you loaded the film on the spiral. This afternoon I loaded and processed my first rolls of film in several months (I've had an injury). I think I needed a nap, because I got a nasty surprise. A loading mistake trumps anything else you might do right.

**Digitalis** · 11-26-2010, 10:18 PM

If you are using T grain films like T-max100 T-max 400 it is mandatory to double your fixing time, these films eat fixer up like a stoner with the munchies so it is best to err on the side of caution. It also wouldn't hurt to add and extra 25% more fixer to the tank to be on the safe side.

Ilford produce similar films to T-max with delta grain but they don't seem to be as hard on the fixer as the kodak T grain films are.

icywarm · 11-27-2010, 12:11 AM

Can you over fix?

**Digitalis** · 11-27-2010, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by icywarm

Can you over fix

only through a gross display of negligence, Fixer can bleach film if it is left in there for too long. At any rate I prefer to put my film through some hypo clear after fixing and squeegee with distilled water - incidentally, the water you are using to wash the film could also be a source of the milkyness, what is the water quality like in your area? The water here in Adelaide can leave hazy/foggy splotches on film when it dries that can be a PITA to clean of - especially if it gets on the emulsion side.

P.S If a lack of fixing is the problem you can just put the film back in the fixer and it should clear up.

Last edited by Digitalis; 11-27-2010 at 01:18 AM.

icywarm · 12-01-2010, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

only through a gross display of negligence, Fixer can bleach film if it is left in there for too long. At any rate I prefer to put my film through some hypo clear after fixing and squeegee with distilled water - incidentally, the water you are using to wash the film could also be a source of the milkyness, what is the water quality like in your area? The water here in Adelaide can leave hazy/foggy splotches on film when it dries that can be a PITA to clean of - especially if it gets on the emulsion side.

P.S If a lack of fixing is the problem you can just put the film back in the fixer and it should clear up.

Yepp I think I answered my own question... I just fixed a roll of film for 20 mins... (I was talking with a client!?!!?) and when I went to look at it there is nothing but highlights left... no mid tones at all... sigh... FAIL!

Vertex Ninja · 12-03-2010, 07:55 PM

Is 20 minutes enough time to bleach away everything but the highlights? I was under the impression that is would take hours, but I've never experienced it first hand to know one way or the other. The other day I tried re-fixing and washing some negatives that had weird black spots. They got 6-7 minutes the first time and then 6-7min the second time. The scans look identical before and after the second fix. That was 12-15 minutes total fixing without a single change. How do the frame numbers look? Maybe the film was underexposed and overdeveloped? Were you pushing?

icywarm · 12-03-2010, 08:41 PM

it was like a clear sheet of film... no frames, no frame numbers... just a very very few highlights... I am going to test... it could be my D76 is dead...

From reading the Kodak development papers... it says look at the film at 1/2 time... to fix double the time it takes to clear... but before silver detail starts to clear... but on my spool I cannot see the detail... and in this case I just completely forgot about it...

Vertex Ninja · 12-03-2010, 11:16 PM

Yeah, if there aren't any frame numbers then something went wrong, and it almost sounds like the developer. Is the leader black? You can check the fixers clearing time by putting a drop of fixer on an extra piece of leader. Then drop the leader into your fixer and time how long it takes for the dot to disappear. That's you clearing time. Two to three times that is your fixing time.

icywarm · 12-03-2010, 11:30 PM

yeah if I didn't have some highlights... I would think that I fixed twice...

**BigDave** · 12-10-2010, 04:59 PM

OK Folks, first the fixing situation. Yes, if you leave the film in the fixer too long you will fix off everything (remove all of the emulsion). Fixing for 20 minutes is NOT too long! You would need to fix for many hours or days to have this happen. This is why they have something called Farmers Reducer, which does bleach out the negative more quickly.

The greater concern is the fact that all you have is highlights. This tells me something else is going on.

1. You did not expose the negatives correctly (underexposed).
2. You did not develop the negatives correctly. Developer has a shelf life once mixed. Used developer has a MUCH shorter shelf life. If the developer was not fresh, this could be the problem.
3. The dilution was too much (weak developer) which would give the same problem as #2 above.

I would do a clip test with your developer to make certain it is OK. Expose a complete roll of film, all with the same exposure. Clip off about 4 to 6 inches (in complete darkness) and try developing it (Developer, Wash/stopbath, fix) in a tray. See how the film looks. If it is not cloudy, you are fine. If it is, let it fix a bit longer until it is clear. If it seems under developed (only highlights) DOUBLE the development time. If it is too dense then you know what the limits are! Do not change the wash or fixing times. Also, make certain your development temperatures are adequate. 68 degrees F is optimum.

Once you understand how the processing conditions are behaving, you can make some judgments from there.

Good luck!

11-18-2010, 10:20 PM	#1
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278	Milky Negs I am getting Milky Negs... the exposure seems to be good... am i just not fixing long enough? Thanks

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Night Milky Way in 30s	falconeye	Post Your Photos!	3	12-17-2009 07:59 AM
Misc Milky way	pingflood	Post Your Photos!	3	11-14-2009 09:30 PM
Digitise film negs with Reverser?	cosmicap	Film Processing, Scanning, and Darkroom	4	03-10-2009 07:21 AM
Transparency or Negs for web scanning?	Ira	Film SLRs and Compact Film Cameras	11	03-07-2009 07:06 AM
Milky Way and Jupiter 8/30/08	fillerupmac	Monthly Photo Contests	5	09-25-2008 12:59 AM

11-18-2010, 10:24 PM	#2
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	yep, or the fixer is exhausted. Mix up some more and refix for the appropiate time, then rewash.

11-23-2010, 06:08 PM	#3
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,692	Yes, refix in fresh fixer or you will lose your images. Chris

11-26-2010, 09:45 PM	#4
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	If the negs are milky in spots or for strips of frames, check how you loaded the film on the spiral. This afternoon I loaded and processed my first rolls of film in several months (I've had an injury). I think I needed a nap, because I got a nasty surprise. A loading mistake trumps anything else you might do right.

11-26-2010, 10:18 PM	#5
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	If you are using T grain films like T-max100 T-max 400 it is mandatory to double your fixing time, these films eat fixer up like a stoner with the munchies so it is best to err on the side of caution. It also wouldn't hurt to add and extra 25% more fixer to the tank to be on the safe side. Ilford produce similar films to T-max with delta grain but they don't seem to be as hard on the fixer as the kodak T grain films are.

11-27-2010, 12:11 AM	#6
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	Can you over fix?

11-27-2010, 01:11 AM	#7
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by icywarm Can you over fix only through a gross display of negligence, Fixer can bleach film if it is left in there for too long. At any rate I prefer to put my film through some hypo clear after fixing and squeegee with distilled water - incidentally, the water you are using to wash the film could also be a source of the milkyness, what is the water quality like in your area? The water here in Adelaide can leave hazy/foggy splotches on film when it dries that can be a PITA to clean of - especially if it gets on the emulsion side. P.S If a lack of fixing is the problem you can just put the film back in the fixer and it should clear up. Last edited by Digitalis; 11-27-2010 at 01:18 AM.

12-01-2010, 05:41 PM	#8
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	Originally posted by Digitalis only through a gross display of negligence, Fixer can bleach film if it is left in there for too long. At any rate I prefer to put my film through some hypo clear after fixing and squeegee with distilled water - incidentally, the water you are using to wash the film could also be a source of the milkyness, what is the water quality like in your area? The water here in Adelaide can leave hazy/foggy splotches on film when it dries that can be a PITA to clean of - especially if it gets on the emulsion side. P.S If a lack of fixing is the problem you can just put the film back in the fixer and it should clear up. Yepp I think I answered my own question... I just fixed a roll of film for 20 mins... (I was talking with a client!?!!?) and when I went to look at it there is nothing but highlights left... no mid tones at all... sigh... FAIL!

12-03-2010, 07:55 PM	#9
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	Is 20 minutes enough time to bleach away everything but the highlights? I was under the impression that is would take hours, but I've never experienced it first hand to know one way or the other. The other day I tried re-fixing and washing some negatives that had weird black spots. They got 6-7 minutes the first time and then 6-7min the second time. The scans look identical before and after the second fix. That was 12-15 minutes total fixing without a single change. How do the frame numbers look? Maybe the film was underexposed and overdeveloped? Were you pushing?

12-03-2010, 08:41 PM	#10
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	it was like a clear sheet of film... no frames, no frame numbers... just a very very few highlights... I am going to test... it could be my D76 is dead... From reading the Kodak development papers... it says look at the film at 1/2 time... to fix double the time it takes to clear... but before silver detail starts to clear... but on my spool I cannot see the detail... and in this case I just completely forgot about it...

12-03-2010, 11:16 PM	#11
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	Yeah, if there aren't any frame numbers then something went wrong, and it almost sounds like the developer. Is the leader black? You can check the fixers clearing time by putting a drop of fixer on an extra piece of leader. Then drop the leader into your fixer and time how long it takes for the dot to disappear. That's you clearing time. Two to three times that is your fixing time.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-03-2010, 11:30 PM	#12
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	yeah if I didn't have some highlights... I would think that I fixed twice...

12-10-2010, 04:59 PM	#13
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	OK Folks, first the fixing situation. Yes, if you leave the film in the fixer too long you will fix off everything (remove all of the emulsion). Fixing for 20 minutes is NOT too long! You would need to fix for many hours or days to have this happen. This is why they have something called Farmers Reducer, which does bleach out the negative more quickly. The greater concern is the fact that all you have is highlights. This tells me something else is going on. 1. You did not expose the negatives correctly (underexposed). 2. You did not develop the negatives correctly. Developer has a shelf life once mixed. Used developer has a MUCH shorter shelf life. If the developer was not fresh, this could be the problem. 3. The dilution was too much (weak developer) which would give the same problem as #2 above. I would do a clip test with your developer to make certain it is OK. Expose a complete roll of film, all with the same exposure. Clip off about 4 to 6 inches (in complete darkness) and try developing it (Developer, Wash/stopbath, fix) in a tray. See how the film looks. If it is not cloudy, you are fine. If it is, let it fix a bit longer until it is clear. If it seems under developed (only highlights) DOUBLE the development time. If it is too dense then you know what the limits are! Do not change the wash or fixing times. Also, make certain your development temperatures are adequate. 68 degrees F is optimum. Once you understand how the processing conditions are behaving, you can make some judgments from there. Good luck!