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GeneV · 04-13-2011, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Might also be increased blue sensitivity...

Steve

(Turns Smurfs white...)

Or just increased sensitivity, period, over every film but HP5. I can't really see much difference in the foreground foliage between the HP5 and Legpro.

However, the LegPro scan looks very bright placed between the Fomapan and Rollei, which both are noticeably darker with less shadow detail. As you noted, the Fomapan is about a stop off the pace, but the Rollei is also darker in the upper right with foliage disappearing in the shadow. In that same upper right corner, The Tri-x appears to my eyes to show a just a hair less foliage, and the HP5 shows a bit more detail.

Last edited by GeneV; 04-14-2011 at 12:15 PM.

Nesster · 04-14-2011, 06:23 AM

With Fuji, I note it holds the sky darker than some other film, so I don't think it is blue sensitivity.

Vertex Ninja · 04-14-2011, 07:57 AM

Like Gene, I think it's just that Neopan has the next fastest real speed behind HP5+. If you look at the data sheets, those two films have similar spectral sensitivity. If anything the Neopan might have slightly more blue/green sensitivity, but really the graphs are too imprecise to come to any conclusions.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Neopan400.pdf
http://stephengrote.com/teaching/datasheets/storage/Ilford%20HP5%20Plus.pdf

GeneV · 04-14-2011, 12:27 PM

It is too bad Kentmere is not one of the contenders. I'd love to see what the difference is from HP5+. I don't shoot a lot of HP5+ in 135 these days, but I did switch to it in 120 when Neopan 400 started getting dicey.

For 135, there is a freezer with bricks of short-dated LegacyPro to be emptied. Whether it is a good thing or bad thing, about the only less expensive push of a shutter than LegacyPro is on a DSLR. The effort of developing still keeps me honest, though.

Last edited by GeneV; 04-14-2011 at 02:33 PM.

PGillin · 04-18-2011, 05:12 PM

Gene,
Right on about the kentmere. I always keep a few rolls of the 400 around, and my 100 shooting is between Kentmere, LP, and some APX I picked up for a song.

I had always heard that the Foma was "slower" than other 400 speed films, but I'd never seen anything to really back it up. I wonder if the 200 speed is closer to mark....

lithos · 04-19-2011, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Vertex Ninja

Like Gene, I think it's just that Neopan has the next fastest real speed behind HP5+.

I'm wondering now just how different Neopan 400 and 1600 are. Given that many people state that the real speed of the 1600 is about 640, I wonder if that's also the true(r) speed of the 400...

GeneV · 04-20-2011, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by lithos

I'm wondering now just how different Neopan 400 and 1600 are. Given that many people state that the real speed of the 1600 is about 640, I wonder if that's also the true(r) speed of the 400...

I've never used the 1600, and I start to glaze over when we talk about densitometers and "true ISO." However, I'd say from use that 640 is pretty close to the speed of the 400. I have used it at up to 800 without pushing and gotten nice results, while 400 can even be a bit flat.

Here is a quick shot at ISO 800, no push, however the developer was FG7 which may add some speed.

Last edited by GeneV; 04-20-2011 at 06:01 AM.

**Digitalis** · 04-20-2011, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by lbenac

I agree it would be nice to see Tmax 400

And Neopan 400 - I have always liked the neopan films chuck 'em in rodinal and they would turn out beautifully - ahh good times

Neopan 400 in 4X5 was a tough combination to beat. very hard to find Neopan in 4X5 and 8X10 sizes though it has to be imported from japan - chuck those 4X5 and 8X10 negs in Pyrocat - *drool....*

GeneV · 04-20-2011, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

And Neopan 400 - I have always liked the neopan films chuck 'em in rodinal and they would turn out beautifully - ahh good times

So, you don't think Legacy Pro 400 counts?

**Digitalis** · 04-20-2011, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

you don't think Legacy Pro 400 counts

it's good, don't get me wrong. It's contrasty, but it doesn't smash it's midtones. Legacy looks slightly softer when compared to what I have seen from neopan films. I never liked HP5 it's lack of sensitivity to the blue/magenta end of the spectrum. which means that there would be parts of the spectrum that would be difficult to render because they would be inherently underexposed because of the film's lack of sensitivity to them, but that can be corrected with a filter if one was so inclined.

the Fomapan negative looks really bad, but I suppose that with some effort some extra dynamic range can be coaxed out of it - nothing like a bad negative to test one's printing abilities.

Vertex Ninja · 04-20-2011, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

it's good, don't get me wrong. It's contrasty, but it doesn't smash it's midtones. Legacy looks slightly softer when compared to what I have seen from neopan films...

I think he was saying Legacy Pro is Neopan. The bulk rolls even have Fuji stamped on them. I get a bit more fog with them though, so they may be older stock or something.

GeneV · 04-20-2011, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Vertex Ninja

I think he was saying Legacy Pro is Neopan. The bulk rolls even have Fuji stamped on them. I get a bit more fog with them though, so they may be older stock or something.

That is certainly what I have been led to believe.

**Digitalis** · 04-20-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Vertex Ninja

I think he was saying Legacy Pro is Neopan.

I don't think so,without doing some digging on the internet it is hard to make any statements like that without making a direct visual comparison to the Fuji product - which is something I haven't seen.

I have never used Legacy pro, but I know photographers that do..I'll ask around.

GeneV · 04-20-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I don't think so,without doing some digging on the internet it is hard to make any statements like that without making a direct visual comparison to the Fuji product - which is something I haven't seen.

I have never used Legacy pro, but I know photographers that do..I'll ask around.

I'll be interested to hear what you find out, because you are the first I've heard to doubt that LP is rebranded Neopan.

Vertex Ninja · 04-20-2011, 08:08 PM

I have both in my freezer and If I remember I'll try and shoot the same scene, same exposure, etc. and develop them in the same tank. I have in the past developed both in the same tank with pyrocat and both came out looking very similar; maybe a little less speed and a little more fog on the legacy pro. Grain and tone looks about as close as two different rolls, shot days apart, can look.

04-20-2011, 06:03 AM	#23
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by lbenac I agree it would be nice to see Tmax 400 And Neopan 400 - I have always liked the neopan films chuck 'em in rodinal and they would turn out beautifully - ahh good times Neopan 400 in 4X5 was a tough combination to beat. *very* hard to find Neopan in 4X5 and 8X10 sizes though it has to be imported from japan - chuck those 4X5 and 8X10 negs in Pyrocat - drool.... Last edited by Digitalis; 04-20-2011 at 06:19 AM.

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04-13-2011, 11:24 PM	#16
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by stevebrot Might also be increased blue sensitivity... Steve (Turns Smurfs white...) Or just increased sensitivity, period, over every film but HP5. I can't really see much difference in the foreground foliage between the HP5 and Legpro. However, the LegPro scan looks very bright placed between the Fomapan and Rollei, which both are noticeably darker with less shadow detail. As you noted, the Fomapan is about a stop off the pace, but the Rollei is also darker in the upper right with foliage disappearing in the shadow. In that same upper right corner, The Tri-x appears to my eyes to show a just a hair less foliage, and the HP5 shows a bit more detail. Last edited by GeneV; 04-14-2011 at 12:15 PM.

04-14-2011, 06:23 AM	#17
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	With Fuji, I note it holds the sky darker than some other film, so I don't think it is blue sensitivity.

04-14-2011, 07:57 AM	#18
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	Like Gene, I think it's just that Neopan has the next fastest real speed behind HP5+. If you look at the data sheets, those two films have similar spectral sensitivity. If anything the Neopan might have slightly more blue/green sensitivity, but really the graphs are too imprecise to come to any conclusions. http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Neopan400.pdf http://stephengrote.com/teaching/datasheets/storage/Ilford%20HP5%20Plus.pdf

04-14-2011, 12:27 PM	#19
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	It is too bad Kentmere is not one of the contenders. I'd love to see what the difference is from HP5+. I don't shoot a lot of HP5+ in 135 these days, but I did switch to it in 120 when Neopan 400 started getting dicey. For 135, there is a freezer with bricks of short-dated LegacyPro to be emptied. Whether it is a good thing or bad thing, about the only less expensive push of a shutter than LegacyPro is on a DSLR. The effort of developing still keeps me honest, though. Last edited by GeneV; 04-14-2011 at 02:33 PM.

04-18-2011, 05:12 PM	#20
PGillin Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southern Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 343	Gene, Right on about the kentmere. I always keep a few rolls of the 400 around, and my 100 shooting is between Kentmere, LP, and some APX I picked up for a song. I had always heard that the Foma was "slower" than other 400 speed films, but I'd never seen anything to really back it up. I wonder if the 200 speed is closer to mark....

04-19-2011, 10:49 PM	#21
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by Vertex Ninja Like Gene, I think it's just that Neopan has the next fastest real speed behind HP5+. I'm wondering now just how different Neopan 400 and 1600 are. Given that many people state that the real speed of the 1600 is about 640, I wonder if that's also the true(r) speed of the 400...

04-20-2011, 05:47 AM	#22
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by lithos I'm wondering now just how different Neopan 400 and 1600 are. Given that many people state that the real speed of the 1600 is about 640, I wonder if that's also the true(r) speed of the 400... I've never used the 1600, and I start to glaze over when we talk about densitometers and "true ISO." However, I'd say from use that 640 is pretty close to the speed of the 400. I have used it at up to 800 without pushing and gotten nice results, while 400 can even be a bit flat. Here is a quick shot at ISO 800, no push, however the developer was FG7 which may add some speed. Last edited by GeneV; 04-20-2011 at 06:01 AM.

04-20-2011, 09:46 AM	#24
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Digitalis And Neopan 400 - I have always liked the neopan films chuck 'em in rodinal and they would turn out beautifully - ahh good times So, you don't think Legacy Pro 400 counts?

04-20-2011, 03:14 PM	#25
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by GeneV you don't think Legacy Pro 400 counts it's good, don't get me wrong. It's contrasty, but it doesn't smash it's midtones. Legacy looks slightly softer when compared to what I have seen from neopan films. I never liked HP5 it's lack of sensitivity to the blue/magenta end of the spectrum. which means that there would be parts of the spectrum that would be difficult to render because they would be inherently underexposed because of the film's lack of sensitivity to them, but that can be corrected with a filter if one was so inclined. the Fomapan negative looks really bad, but I suppose that with some effort some extra dynamic range can be coaxed out of it - nothing like a bad negative to test one's printing abilities.

04-20-2011, 04:48 PM	#26
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	Originally posted by Digitalis it's good, don't get me wrong. It's contrasty, but it doesn't smash it's midtones. Legacy looks slightly softer when compared to what I have seen from neopan films... I think he was saying Legacy Pro is Neopan. The bulk rolls even have Fuji stamped on them. I get a bit more fog with them though, so they may be older stock or something.

04-20-2011, 04:52 PM	#27
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Vertex Ninja I think he was saying Legacy Pro is Neopan. The bulk rolls even have Fuji stamped on them. I get a bit more fog with them though, so they may be older stock or something. That is certainly what I have been led to believe.

04-20-2011, 05:28 PM	#28
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Vertex Ninja I think he was saying Legacy Pro is Neopan. I don't think so,without doing some digging on the internet it is hard to make any statements like that without making a direct visual comparison to the Fuji product - which is something I haven't seen. I have never used Legacy pro, but I know photographers that do..I'll ask around.

04-20-2011, 07:03 PM	#29
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Digitalis I don't think so,without doing some digging on the internet it is hard to make any statements like that without making a direct visual comparison to the Fuji product - which is something I haven't seen. I have never used Legacy pro, but I know photographers that do..I'll ask around. I'll be interested to hear what you find out, because you are the first I've heard to doubt that LP is rebranded Neopan.

04-20-2011, 08:08 PM	#30
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	I have both in my freezer and If I remember I'll try and shoot the same scene, same exposure, etc. and develop them in the same tank. I have in the past developed both in the same tank with pyrocat and both came out looking very similar; maybe a little less speed and a little more fog on the legacy pro. Grain and tone looks about as close as two different rolls, shot days apart, can look.

ISO 400 Films Compared

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