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12-19-2013, 06:02 PM   #1
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Do you start the timer when you start pouring?

So do you start your timer when you start pouring in the developer or just as it is full?

I have done it both ways and never had any mishaps.

Opinions?

Jamey

12-19-2013, 06:30 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jamey777 Quote
So do you start your timer when you start pouring in the developer or just as it is full?

I have done it both ways and never had any mishaps.

Opinions?

Jamey
Doesn't matter as long as your consistent. Unless you're running ultra-precise tempertures with a very nice thermometer in a tempering bath, there will slight thermometer inaccuracies, and perhaps a slight temperature shift in developing. As long as you're not using a very strong developer at high temp, the 5 seconds vs 10.5 minutes (my standard)of development time will have little to no impact.

Once you've found a film, you'll ideally calibrate your process with a test roll, and find the exact ASA of the film, and dial in your development time with the equipment you have.

So, again, it doesn't really matter, as long as you're consistent and you are getting the results you expect.
12-19-2013, 06:34 PM   #3
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My c-41 is 3:30 so its very fast to develop, and at precisely 102 in a water bath. I like my stuff contrasty so don't mind pushing anyway. I was just wondering if there was a preferred way.
12-19-2013, 06:50 PM   #4
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I was taught by my photography teacher to add an additional 5 seconds to the timer. Start the timer, then pour.

That is what has become my habit and I continue to develop my film like this.

QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
So, again, it doesn't really matter, as long as you're consistent and you are getting the results you expect.
Ditto.

12-19-2013, 06:57 PM   #5
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It's really not significant except when using extremely short development times (5 minutes or less, which should be avoided).
I start the timer after I've filled the tank and rapped it to dislodge any air bubbles.

Chris
12-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
It's really not significant except when using extremely short development times (5 minutes or less, which should be avoided).
I start the timer after I've filled the tank and rapped it to dislodge any air bubbles.

Chris
What he said.

"Hot" developers are problematic for that reason.


Steve
12-20-2013, 08:59 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jamey777 Quote
My c-41 is 3:30 so its very fast to develop, and at precisely 102 in a water bath. I like my stuff contrasty so don't mind pushing anyway. I was just wondering if there was a preferred way.
The C-41 book that came with my press kit mentioned 3:30 minutes, starting after the pour. Other instructions I've read say 3:45 starting before the pour. Even at those times, with the first batch of my kit with pretty precise temperature (slightly over 102) mine came out underexposed with weak reds. (Superia 400 in 35mm). Since then, I do 3:45 after pour on the first 4 rolls, and then after every time through my tank (2 rolls of 35mm or 120) add 10 seconds to development. I get surprising consistency, though. With Chemical re-use especially, it's hard to precisely measure exhaustion and adjust times accordingly.

I am assuming that my extended development time (slightly) may be because C-41 was designed for roller transport, and it likely gets less agitation when done by inversion in small tanks. With roller transport, agitation is pretty measured and calibrated. With small tanks, the best you can strive for is consistency.

Anyways, what I am saying, is that even with shorter development times, there will be some deviation from published times. The darkroom side of things is an art on its own, and there are not hard set rules for development-- do what gives you the results you want, and keep working from there. I guess my point is that it doesn't matter if you pour before or after you hit the clock if you are getting good results, Keep it consistent and you'll keep getting those good results.
12-20-2013, 09:43 AM   #8
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Well I just did roll 16 in my tetenal press kit, and purposefully shot at film speed etc.

Developed for exactly the prescribed amount and once you have used the developer this much you definately need the extra one stop push.

Negatives were way too thin. Normally I don't have to do *any* post whatsoever on Portra 400 but this time i had to bump the contrast etc.

I am pretty sure that I pushed most of the 16 rolls anyway.

Will do rolls 17 & 18 this week with a stop of time added. i like the punchy contrast better anyway :-)

Jamey

12-20-2013, 10:49 AM   #9
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How many rolls do you do before dumping the C-41 stuff?

I've got 12 rolls of 135-36, and my times are around 4:30 minutes now. Also, my Chemicals have been mixed for 6 months now, and last run I did on 2 rolls of 135-36 showed no degradation...

I don't shoot much color, but I've been happy with the results with the Tetenal. Unfortunately, they just raised the prices, so I might try out the 2 liter Unicolor kit that Freestyle has for $34.

With the difficulty I've been having and the long process of shooting, developing, scanning, sending select frames off for high-end scanning, editing, printing, I'll probably switch to E-6 for my color work. Velvia 100 seems to be very cheap in 120 right now, too-- $6 a roll, then doing small batches of E-6, processing would be about $2 worth of chemicals. Not bad considering I scan skip the initial scan and sending out for pro scans that I have in my C-41 process. I have 80% keepers with MF anyway, and I can just mail off slides to Dwayne's for printing, or off to a pro lab for scanning, while skipping my initial scan and review by just loading the chromes into my enlarger for a nice peak.

Sorry for being a bit off topic, but does anyone here have experience with E-6 at home? I've seen good results from the rapid 3 bath kit, but I've heard the economical way to do it is to go for individual chems, and skip the reversal bath in favor of re-exposure.
12-20-2013, 10:54 AM   #10
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This is my first tetenal press kit, I just did roll 16 and I think I mixed it up 6 months ago?

The kit is only $23 at b&h so not sure it's that much more than when I bought it previously (maybe $18?). I have one on the shelf waiting.

there was some guy on the flickr group for diy color that ran a roll through 2 year old tetenal and it did fine. he kept it under his sink at room temperature. My understanding is you can use it till you don't like the colors.

I recently aquired a used pakon 135 from AAA imaging and it takes longer for me to rotate the images than it does to scan the roll. It's on par with any frontier or noritsu scans you will see. the facebook group has good proof of that. there is no way I can scan on my flatbed and have them look this good. I dont even do any post anymore unless the negatives are thin or overexposed.

Sorry no desire to do slides so I can't help you there. I do want to get into medium format, perhaps in 2015 :-)

Jamey
12-20-2013, 11:27 AM   #11
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Good info on the Tetenal. Since it's a controlled process, is it reasonably safe to assume the Unicolor 2 liter kit will behave in a similar fashion? I keep them in airtight glass bottles filled to the brim, away from heat and sunlight. I've heard similar results can be had with E-6 chems, too, in terms of rolls processed. From what I've seen, there's only subtle differences when going from roll to roll, so I guess I'll discard my chems when there are obvious color issues, but when the negs are still workable in post. Maybe another 8-10 rolls. If so, then C-41 would be cheaper than my current B&W workflow.

As for me, scanning negatives is a pain to get them to look how I want, and I have a hard time deciding if its a keeper or not without the 3-4 minutes of scanning, then 5 minutes of quick editing and analyzing per frame. Then they get sorted, and every couple of months will go of for a pro scan. I tried mailing them directly to Dwayne's, but I never get colors that I like, even sending them a low-res scan reference file. Once they come back, it's another 5-10 minutes per frame of editing again. I work on my computer all day, so any part of the process I can do in the darkroom makes me a happy camper.

Also, I posted a digital file of a flash flood in Page, AZ a couple months ago. I spent 15 minutes fiddling with it in post after shooting RAW from my K100d, and it still wasn't as nice looking as the slides I took of the same subject in terms of color accuracy and saturation. I am careful with filters when I shoot slides, though. For me, Provia 100f and careful filter selection nets me better colors than I get from either digital or C-41. Plus, if the color is right on my slides, and I send them off to Dwayne's for printing, or send them off for scanning, they come back without any need for color editing.

Nice score on the scanner. I actually got into Medium Format as an altrernative to 135 C-41. For 8x10s, I couldn't get decent scans without spending a small fortune on a scanner. My first couple rolls my old 4490 gave me workable files for 8x10s. I'm psyched to get my first roll of slides back for MF, though, as I still think my 35mm slides are nicer than my 645 negs. Unfortunately, my scanner broke down and I left it behind during my last move. Shot for shot, if you're not trigger happy, it's not that much more expensive.

Also, why wait for 2015? The Bronica ETRS I got has blown me away. I spent a total of about $200 for the body, a 75mm, 50mm, prism, and 2 120 backs. I'll have a 150mm soon (about $50-$75), and am hunting down 40mm PE. Cheaper for a full system than a single high-end digital zoom! Quality is fantastic with 400 speed film-- Delta 400 shots handheld look better than some of my best Fomapan 100 shots on a tripod with 35mm. Can't wait to get some slides back. At 8x10, differences are very subtle, but if you do any high res scanning or printing at 11x14 or beyond, it's a sizable difference with the smoothness in grain and tonality. I find handling 120 during developing, scanning, and enlarging is actually easier than 35mm.
12-20-2013, 11:40 AM   #12
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I too am on a computer all day. The pakon keeps me from doing any work in post. Keep in mind these are family pics, not trying to sell them or anything.

As for when to jump into 2014, I have decided to buy several broken konica auto s2 rangefinders and try and learn how to fix / cla / etc cameras. So that is the project this year.

I do have a bronica setup I can borrow from a buddy, so that is good to hear it recommended.
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