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08-20-2014, 03:29 PM   #1
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Kodak BW400CN discontinued

It looks like the analog world is seeing the end of another film product. This time it's Kodak BW400CN. From Kodak's own site :

KODAK PROFESSIONAL BW400CN Film

I never shot with this film but it's still sad to see another option disappear. It looks like it's up to Ilford to keep C-41 B&W alive.

08-20-2014, 03:33 PM   #2
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Yeah, it is sad, but I could never get a C-41 lab to properly adjust the tonality anyway. It always came out dark green.
08-20-2014, 03:41 PM   #3
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Another one bites the dust
I really really like this film. I can't develop myself so it worked really well for me. I get better results with BW400CN than with Tri-X or TMAX, mainly because I have to send out true B&W films.
I just ordered 10 rolls.
08-20-2014, 03:42 PM   #4
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I'm thinking of ordering some rolls too and cold storing them for future use. My current backlog of film to shoot has grown but I don't want to miss out on this formulation while I can still get it.

08-20-2014, 04:05 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
I'm thinking of ordering some rolls too and cold storing them for future use. My current backlog of film to shoot has grown but I don't want to miss out on this formulation while I can still get it.
One can never have to much film stockpiled
08-20-2014, 04:08 PM   #6
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I've always shied away from C-41 B&W since I can develop myself, but it is sad to see another film go. I had hoped that we had gotten to the point where the emulsions that were left were economically viable. Need to shoot more film...
08-20-2014, 05:15 PM   #7
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Sad. One of my favorite films.

M

08-20-2014, 09:48 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
Sad. One of my favorite films.

M
+1.

I am novice on films. I find this journalistic C41 b&w film to be unique with fine grain, great contrast and creamy look. I preferred it over the Ilford XP2. I find BW400CN easiest to scan as color negatives and have the dust removal feature available in scanning. Even my lowly flatbed cannon scanner at home likes this film.



shot with Kodak BW400CN, scanned with Canon 8800F



Two more rolls to go

I quite often see this film on display in places like Walmart and CVS, I thought wrongly that this film will last longer than others. The discontinuation notice of BW400CN in Kodak's site leads me to this wonderful 100% film photographer

Tanja Lippert

and the discovery of this wonderful development place that she has used for her professional work

Indie Film Lab

All is not lost in this piece of sad news, I hope the few films that I love live on -- Fuji Acros 100, Kodak Tri-X 400 and Kodak Ektar.


Cheers,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 08-20-2014 at 09:56 PM.
08-20-2014, 11:58 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yeah, it is sad, but I could never get a C-41 lab to properly adjust the tonality anyway. It always came out dark green.
Works well in Caffenol !
08-21-2014, 12:32 AM   #10
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Damn it, this film was Ok on 35mm. but on 120 format this film was spectacular - especially on 67 format where the lenses were slow and you needed an ISO 400 B&W film that wasn't grainy. 400CN didn't have that tendency to develop weird tonal characteristics like tri-X when you pull or push it around.
08-21-2014, 01:46 PM   #11
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Sad, though I’ve never tried this film. I have three processing labs close to me that do true b&w developing, so there was never a need to shoot the C-41 version.

As long a Kodak does not discontinue Tri-x or T-max 400 I’ll survive.

Phil.
08-21-2014, 02:04 PM   #12
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Well damn. Though as it was already extremely difficult to find in local shops it likely isn't going to have too much effect on me.

(For that matter, TMax has lately been somewhat difficult as well. Hopefully that's just an ordering quirk of the local shops though.)
08-21-2014, 03:38 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Sad, though I’ve never tried this film. I have three processing labs close to me that do true b&w developing, so there was never a need to shoot the C-41 version.

As long a Kodak does not discontinue Tri-x or T-max 400 I’ll survive.

Phil.
Your reply with the word "need" caught my eye and made me think. There's no doubt that film photography has changed. People used to shoot film because they had to. Photography needed film. Now we shoot film because we want to. Photography now has a very robust digital solution.

We all have our personal reasons for shooting film but whatever they are I think we can all agree that we enjoy film because it's not digital. Try as they might, software and hardware companies cannot fully duplicate the film look or film experience. They may come close but they never get it 100%. Those of us who care about film and understand the difference still flock to the format. We may be small but we are still a realizable market.

So the question is, what do we who use film need? The people at Kodak Alaris have come up with their interpretation and it is presented in their product offering. They understand we appreciate film for what it is but they also see us scanning our negatives and processing the images in our favorite software. Saturation, contrast, dodging, burning, etc are just a mouse click and swipe away nowadays. Kodak offers :

Ektar 100 - High contrast punchy film color negative
Portra 160 - Lower contrast less saturated color negative for the studio
Portra 400 - Lower contrast less saturated color negative for the unpredictable outdoors
Portra 800 - Lower contrast less saturated color negative for fast action and low light situations
Gold 200 - Neutral low end consumer film
Ultra Max 400 - Neutral low end consumer film
T-Max 100 - Fine grain B&W
T-Max 400 - Fine grain B&W
Tri-X 320 - "Classic grain" B&W as Kodak calls it
Tri-X 400 - "Classic grain" B&W here too

Kodak would want products that make technical and marketing sense. Would it be a stretch of the imagination to say that BW400CN competed against Portra that was scanned and converted to B&W?

Other than Gold and Ultra Max Kodak's line up is filled with flagship products. They are all labeled as "pro" films. Could the "consumer" films be next does Kodak need the $2.50 film to compete against Fuji?
08-21-2014, 07:10 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
Your reply with the word "need" caught my eye and made me think. There's no doubt that film photography has changed. People used to shoot film because they had to. Photography needed film. Now we shoot film because we want to. Photography now has a very robust digital solution.

We all have our personal reasons for shooting film but whatever they are I think we can all agree that we enjoy film because it's not digital. Try as they might, software and hardware companies cannot fully duplicate the film look or film experience. They may come close but they never get it 100%. Those of us who care about film and understand the difference still flock to the format. We may be small but we are still a realizable market.

So the question is, what do we who use film need? The people at Kodak Alaris have come up with their interpretation and it is presented in their product offering. They understand we appreciate film for what it is but they also see us scanning our negatives and processing the images in our favorite software. Saturation, contrast, dodging, burning, etc are just a mouse click and swipe away nowadays. Kodak offers :

Ektar 100 - High contrast punchy film color negative
Portra 160 - Lower contrast less saturated color negative for the studio
Portra 400 - Lower contrast less saturated color negative for the unpredictable outdoors
Portra 800 - Lower contrast less saturated color negative for fast action and low light situations
Gold 200 - Neutral low end consumer film
Ultra Max 400 - Neutral low end consumer film
T-Max 100 - Fine grain B&W
T-Max 400 - Fine grain B&W
Tri-X 320 - "Classic grain" B&W as Kodak calls it
Tri-X 400 - "Classic grain" B&W here too

Kodak would want products that make technical and marketing sense. Would it be a stretch of the imagination to say that BW400CN competed against Portra that was scanned and converted to B&W?

Other than Gold and Ultra Max Kodak's line up is filled with flagship products. They are all labeled as "pro" films. Could the "consumer" films be next does Kodak need the $2.50 film to compete against Fuji?
My take on Kodak BW400CN was that it was targeted for folks who wanted to shoot b&w but did not have a lab near by to process it. Any place that processes film will always process C-41, E6 and B&W are a hit and miss affair in some areas.

I was talking to the fokls at my local lab today when picking up some slides and they were not surprised that BW400CN was discontinued.

Don’t be surprised if Kodak nukes their two consumer colour films next:

Gold 200 - Neutral low end consumer film
Ultra Max 400 - Neutral low end consumer film

Phil.
08-25-2014, 03:16 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
My take on Kodak BW400CN was that it was targeted for folks who wanted to shoot b&w but did not have a lab near by to process it. Any place that processes film will always process C-41, E6 and B&W are a hit and miss affair in some areas.
I never got around to shooting BW400CN -- I've shot some XP2 and got absolutely terrible scans from the lab at the corner drugstore, but the negs (and my later rescans) turned out to be fine. Not especially distinguished, just fine.

I probably would've tried Kodak's version out of curiosity (and because I'll always try at least one roll of something that looks interesting), but since I'm now sending out all my film, I no longer have any compelling need for a C41 B&W; true B&W films give me better results anyway.

But I think gofour3 hints at a really good point here: there was a very specific market moment for B&W chromogenic film -- it roughly spanned the time when you stopped having a proper photo lab available in any decent-sized town, but every drugstore still handled film (and thus, you ONLY reliably had access to C41), to the time when the 1-hour labs at your local Rite-Aid or Walgreen's started disappearing. Since I don't live in NYC, SF, etc, my local options have been shrinking like crazy in the last few years; but if I've reached the point where mail order is my best option anyway, I'm no longer "stuck" with chromogenic.

(Except for right now, because that last roll of Ilford is the only 36-exposure roll I have left. How did I let that happen, anyway?? )
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