B&W Darkroom: Water as Stop Bath?

AquaDome · 01-29-2015, 10:26 AM

In my tiny tool-shed / darkroom, I use Kodak HC-110 (dilution E) and Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. I mix my stop bath one gallon at a time and keep it in a clear jug. It smells like vinegar and looks like pee. This doesn't bother me one bit, but it has prompted somewhat of an "intervention". I have been informed that an acidic stop bath is not necessary with HC-110 and that I should be using plain old tap water. I pointed out that my water comes from a well (actually pointed at the well) and explained that since there were no chemicals like chlorine in my water, it wouldn't work. This brought a quizzical look from my Inquizitor and we agreed to seek outside sources.

I have plenty of stop bath and intend to keep using it, at least until it goes bad or I run out. That could be a long time.

BUT: Can my plain well water be used as a stop bath with HC-110? This is not taking filtration or treatment into account. I am only half-way through building the filtration and treatment system, but will have it up and running long before I run out of Indicator Stop Bath concentrate.

I am absolutely thrilled to even be having such a darkroom conversation with another individual in my area. I want to pretend to be informed so it doesn't turn out to be the last one.

Parallax · 01-29-2015, 11:15 AM

There shouldn't be any problems using water, just be aware that you may have to shorten development time a bit and your fixer may not last as long if you're reusing it.
It's been many, many (too many!) years so I don't remember the details but at one time I was using a develop/fixer method and or brand (like I said, it's been a while) that didn't have a separate stop step at all. The fixer concentrate was added to the tank with the developer at the end of the develop time.

HGMonaro · 01-30-2015, 06:17 AM

Same as Chris, water for film, indicator stop for prints. However, sounds like your water needs decent filtration otherwise I'd be using distilled/deionized for my dev/stop/fix/wash as once you get crap on your film, it's very hard to get off!

gylfimag · 01-30-2015, 07:54 AM

Using a stop bath for black and white film (or paper, for that matter) is optional. All it does is stop the development - as the name says! - and the fixer will do that as well. That said, if you have the chemicals for a stop bath then there is little reason not to use them. It will prolong the life of the fixer. You can use plain water to rinse the film before you use the fixer if you want to, the main risk is that it will not stop the development completely so it becomes uneven. The water only dilutes the developer, does not stop it from working on the film, unless you flush all the developer away.

AquaDome · 01-30-2015, 10:20 AM

Thanks for your answers. I was pretty sure it wasn't going to eat my film, but its good to know I don't have to use it if I don't want to. Prolonging my fixer isn't a high priority, since it will probably expire before I deplete its usefulness.

Venturi · 01-30-2015, 08:52 PM

I use white vinegar diluted 3:1 for 30 seconds then a quick rinse in plain water before the fixer. Super inexpensive and fast.

AquaDome · 01-31-2015, 05:45 AM

Same tangy smell at rock-bottom price. Nice!

stevebrot · 01-31-2015, 03:35 PM

I use stop bath at half strength for film, though water is supposed to be OK.

Steve

AquaDome · 02-01-2015, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I use stop bath at half strength for film, though water is supposed to be OK.

Steve

This would achieve two things for me: cut down on the smell, and allow me to not have to fully make up my mind...

Originally posted by ChrisPlatt

When I'm rich I will use the most expensive Balsamic vinegar.

Chris

Then you could call that your salad days

tuco · 02-02-2015, 03:36 PM

If you use water for a stop bath, make sure you stop it differently than the acid stop bath. Fill the tank up, shake it a few seconds and drain. Repeat 5 or 6 times. I use water for a stop with my Pyro developer which is mandatory; not an option.

Xmas · 03-16-2015, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by tuco

If you use water for a stop bath, make sure you stop it differently than the acid stop bath. Fill the tank up, shake it a few seconds and drain. Repeat 5 or 6 times. I use water for a stop with my Pyro developer which is mandatory; not an option.

The acid stop bath is optional with film but necessary with some print developers, (to avoid print staining).
If you use exotic film like PET based or non prehardened film (like other then Fuji, Kodak or Ilford film) you need to be careful with both acid concentration and temperature shock.

You need to read data sheets.

Ive never used acid stop with film, but hold temperature change to less than 1C.

I always used dilute white wine vinegar with prints, always in house for fried potatoes, or salad dressing, but if you got staining you can always reprint, film transgressions are lost shots.

Noel

DaveJ · 03-22-2015, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by AquaDome

In my tiny tool-shed / darkroom, I use Kodak HC-110 (dilution E) and Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. I mix my stop bath one gallon at a time and keep it in a clear jug. It smells like vinegar and looks like pee. This doesn't bother me one bit, but it has prompted somewhat of an "intervention". I have been informed that an acidic stop bath is not necessary with HC-110 and that I should be using plain old tap water. I pointed out that my water comes from a well (actually pointed at the well) and explained that since there were no chemicals like chlorine in my water, it wouldn't work. This brought a quizzical look from my Inquizitor and we agreed to seek outside sources.

I have plenty of stop bath and intend to keep using it, at least until it goes bad or I run out. That could be a long time.

BUT: Can my plain well water be used as a stop bath with HC-110? This is not taking filtration or treatment into account. I am only half-way through building the filtration and treatment system, but will have it up and running long before I run out of Indicator Stop Bath concentrate.

I am absolutely thrilled to even be having such a darkroom conversation with another individual in my area. I want to pretend to be informed so it doesn't turn out to be the last one.

Always used water. Works perfectly.

Xmas · 06-05-2015, 01:49 AM

@@@@@
BUT: Can my plain well water be used as a stop bath with HC-110? This is not taking filtration or treatment into account. I am only half-way through building the filtration and treatment system, but will have it up and running long before I run out of Indicator Stop Bath concentrate.
@@@@@
If you are using well water for developer fix and wash then it is ok for stop.
If there are particles in the water I'd filter it through a coffee filter and use HCA and ilfords archival wash to minimise use.
If you have a septic tank I'd not discard

Wash water
Used fix
Or some developers into your local drains

You can get silver recovery tools and then tank residue to hazmat centre.

01-29-2015, 10:26 AM	#1
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475	B&W Darkroom: Water as Stop Bath? In my tiny tool-shed / darkroom, I use Kodak HC-110 (dilution E) and Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. I mix my stop bath one gallon at a time and keep it in a clear jug. It smells like vinegar and looks like pee. This doesn't bother me one bit, but it has prompted somewhat of an "intervention". I have been informed that an acidic stop bath is not necessary with HC-110 and that I should be using plain old tap water. I pointed out that my water comes from a well (actually pointed at the well) and explained that since there were no chemicals like chlorine in my water, it wouldn't work. This brought a quizzical look from my Inquizitor and we agreed to seek outside sources. I have plenty of stop bath and intend to keep using it, at least until it goes bad or I run out. That could be a long time. BUT: Can my plain well water be used as a stop bath with HC-110? This is not taking filtration or treatment into account. I am only half-way through building the filtration and treatment system, but will have it up and running long before I run out of Indicator Stop Bath concentrate. I am absolutely thrilled to even be having such a darkroom conversation with another individual in my area. I want to pretend to be informed so it doesn't turn out to be the last one.

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01-29-2015, 11:15 AM	#2
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	There shouldn't be any problems using water, just be aware that you may have to shorten development time a bit and your fixer may not last as long if you're reusing it. It's been many, many (too many!) years so I don't remember the details but at one time I was using a develop/fixer method and or brand (like I said, it's been a while) that didn't have a separate stop step at all. The fixer concentrate was added to the tank with the developer at the end of the develop time.

01-30-2015, 06:17 AM	#3
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	Same as Chris, water for film, indicator stop for prints. However, sounds like your water needs decent filtration otherwise I'd be using distilled/deionized for my dev/stop/fix/wash as once you get crap on your film, it's very hard to get off!

01-30-2015, 07:54 AM	#4
gylfimag Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 90	Using a stop bath for black and white film (or paper, for that matter) is optional. All it does is stop the development - as the name says! - and the fixer will do that as well. That said, if you have the chemicals for a stop bath then there is little reason not to use them. It will prolong the life of the fixer. You can use plain water to rinse the film before you use the fixer if you want to, the main risk is that it will not stop the development completely so it becomes uneven. The water only dilutes the developer, does not stop it from working on the film, unless you flush all the developer away.

01-30-2015, 10:20 AM	#5
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475 Original Poster	Thanks for your answers. I was pretty sure it wasn't going to eat my film, but its good to know I don't have to use it if I don't want to. Prolonging my fixer isn't a high priority, since it will probably expire before I deplete its usefulness.

01-30-2015, 08:52 PM	#6
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	I use white vinegar diluted 3:1 for 30 seconds then a quick rinse in plain water before the fixer. Super inexpensive and fast.

01-31-2015, 05:45 AM	#7
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475 Original Poster	Same tangy smell at rock-bottom price. Nice!

01-31-2015, 03:35 PM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I use stop bath at half strength for film, though water is supposed to be OK. Steve

02-01-2015, 08:40 AM	#9
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I use stop bath at half strength for film, though water is supposed to be OK. Steve This would achieve two things for me: cut down on the smell, and allow me to not have to fully make up my mind... Originally posted by ChrisPlatt When I'm rich I will use the most expensive Balsamic vinegar. Chris Then you could call that your salad days

02-02-2015, 03:36 PM	#10
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,024	If you use water for a stop bath, make sure you stop it differently than the acid stop bath. Fill the tank up, shake it a few seconds and drain. Repeat 5 or 6 times. I use water for a stop with my Pyro developer which is mandatory; not an option.

03-16-2015, 06:55 AM	#11
Xmas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 617	Originally posted by tuco If you use water for a stop bath, make sure you stop it differently than the acid stop bath. Fill the tank up, shake it a few seconds and drain. Repeat 5 or 6 times. I use water for a stop with my Pyro developer which is mandatory; not an option. The acid stop bath is optional with film but necessary with some print developers, (to avoid print staining). If you use exotic film like PET based or non prehardened film (like other then Fuji, Kodak or Ilford film) you need to be careful with both acid concentration and temperature shock. You need to read data sheets. Ive never used acid stop with film, but hold temperature change to less than 1C. I always used dilute white wine vinegar with prints, always in house for fried potatoes, or salad dressing, but if you got staining you can always reprint, film transgressions are lost shots. Noel

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03-22-2015, 08:33 AM	#12
DaveJ New Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4	Originally posted by AquaDome In my tiny tool-shed / darkroom, I use Kodak HC-110 (dilution E) and Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. I mix my stop bath one gallon at a time and keep it in a clear jug. It smells like vinegar and looks like pee. This doesn't bother me one bit, but it has prompted somewhat of an "intervention". I have been informed that an acidic stop bath is not necessary with HC-110 and that I should be using plain old tap water. I pointed out that my water comes from a well (actually pointed at the well) and explained that since there were no chemicals like chlorine in my water, it wouldn't work. This brought a quizzical look from my Inquizitor and we agreed to seek outside sources. I have plenty of stop bath and intend to keep using it, at least until it goes bad or I run out. That could be a long time. BUT: Can my plain well water be used as a stop bath with HC-110? This is not taking filtration or treatment into account. I am only half-way through building the filtration and treatment system, but will have it up and running long before I run out of Indicator Stop Bath concentrate. I am absolutely thrilled to even be having such a darkroom conversation with another individual in my area. I want to pretend to be informed so it doesn't turn out to be the last one. Always used water. Works perfectly.

06-05-2015, 01:49 AM	#13
Xmas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 617	@@@@@ BUT: Can my plain well water be used as a stop bath with HC-110? This is not taking filtration or treatment into account. I am only half-way through building the filtration and treatment system, but will have it up and running long before I run out of Indicator Stop Bath concentrate. @@@@@ If you are using well water for developer fix and wash then it is ok for stop. If there are particles in the water I'd filter it through a coffee filter and use HCA and ilfords archival wash to minimise use. If you have a septic tank I'd not discard Wash water Used fix Or some developers into your local drains You can get silver recovery tools and then tank residue to hazmat centre.