Is this problem with the camera or the developing?

seventysixersfan · 12-29-2015, 07:17 PM

Hi all-- I just got a cheap Pentax ZX-10 because I wanted to play around with shooting film. I used a brand-new roll of Kodak UltraMax 400 35mm film. I shot the entire 36 exposures and then mailed it into thedarkroom.com for developing and scanning.

But the images I got back were mixed. Some were perfectly fine and looked great, but about half the roll has what appears to be mis-aligned pictures-- that is, the image from shot #20 is partially obscured by a portion of the image from shot #21. See below for an example.

Is this a problem with the camera, the film, or the developing?

Thanks for any and all help. I'm a total film newbie.

Adam · 12-29-2015, 07:23 PM

Probably an issue with the camera's winder (but check the negatives first), though perhaps it could be caused by lower battery voltage or incorrectly loaded film. The latter is unlikely, since this would most likely result in an error message on your first frame, or at least inconsistent results from the start.

**lmd91343** · 12-29-2015, 07:29 PM

Is your picture from the scan you got back?

Measure the images are on the negative itself. They should be well formed and 36mm wide. If so, the problem was with the scanning.

Not a Number · 12-29-2015, 07:29 PM

Do you have the negatives? Is the blank space between frames inconsistent? If it is the there is a problem with the camera. If it isn't then the problem lies with the scanning process not aligning the frames properly. If much of the frame should be dark it is sometimes difficult to determine where the frame boundaries are but that wouldn't be the problem with the sample image given.

bigdavephoto · 12-29-2015, 08:11 PM

I would say it was something to do with the scanning. You would need to look at the negatives to be sure. If you go to look at the negatives, be sure to handle them by there edges, and if possible, wear some lent free gloves.

seventysixersfan · 12-29-2015, 08:13 PM

okay thanks for the advice so far. I have not yet received the negatives-- they will be sent by mail to me in a few days. In the meantime, these are the images that thedarkroom.com had scanned and uploaded online for me to download. I am inclined to rule out scanning errors since I've heard positive things about this website, but I guess it could also be human error. That said, the SLR I got was used, but in excellent working condition, according to Roberts Camera, where I bought it from. I don't know if they had checked the camera's winder. I'll wait to see the negatives before investigating this further with the developing service.

bigdavephoto · 12-29-2015, 08:35 PM

I am ruling out the camera because if the camera had a problem with the winder, you would be getting double exposures and if I am not mistaken, there also would not be a dividing line between photos.

I think it was a problem with the scanner/human error and QC not working that day.

**Alex645** · 12-29-2015, 09:24 PM

Based on the example you posted, it is an error in the scanning process. When you get the negs back, they will confirm this. I'd email thedarkroom.com and ask them to rescan or confirm as you have a new camera and need to know if it's the camera or their scanning.

The only indication that could be your camera is if there are overlapping double exposures or inconsistent widths of black gaps in the messed up scans.

**pentaxus** · 12-29-2015, 10:49 PM

If the black bars are all the same width and off to the side like the example it is the lab.

foto guy · 12-30-2015, 05:00 AM

I wonder if the scanning is done automatically and no one looked to see that it was misaligned.

AquaDome · 12-30-2015, 07:52 AM

It looks like they ran it through an automatic scanner and didn't do any QC. This is not the service I have come to expect from The Darkroom. Call them and have them re-scan your stuff.

seventysixersfan · 12-30-2015, 08:28 AM

This is all so very helpful, thank you very much. I'll ask the Darkroom to check the scans and see if it's the negatives or my camera.

tuco · 12-30-2015, 11:32 AM - **1 Like**

Clearly the auto scanning was misaligned. How can the camera record a black bar in front of it plus a partial image of either the past or not yet taken future image when the shutter opens to capture the incoming light.

**gofour3** · 12-30-2015, 12:26 PM

Scanning issue.

I do that frequently when I scan 35mm negatives on my scanner. Scanning misaligned negative strips can capture parts of two frames.

Phil.

tuco · 12-30-2015, 01:02 PM

I thought of another remote possibility. If there was a shutter issue creating a partial unexposed area on one side of the frame, the scanner may be auto locating its edge of the fixed-size scanning frame to that black edge to find its starting point and thereby recording a frame separator plus some of the next image.

But I also think if you have a shutter problem it would maybe more consistent and often you don't get a sharp, crisp edge of black that a auto-detect software would be looking for. But all will be known when the negatives come back.

12-29-2015, 07:17 PM	#1
seventysixersfan Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 2,054	Is this problem with the camera or the developing? Hi all-- I just got a cheap Pentax ZX-10 because I wanted to play around with shooting film. I used a brand-new roll of Kodak UltraMax 400 35mm film. I shot the entire 36 exposures and then mailed it into thedarkroom.com for developing and scanning. But the images I got back were mixed. Some were perfectly fine and looked great, but about half the roll has what appears to be mis-aligned pictures-- that is, the image from shot #20 is partially obscured by a portion of the image from shot #21. See below for an example. Is this a problem with the camera, the film, or the developing? Thanks for any and all help. I'm a total film newbie.

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12-29-2015, 07:23 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Probably an issue with the camera's winder (but check the negatives first), though perhaps it could be caused by lower battery voltage or incorrectly loaded film. The latter is unlikely, since this would most likely result in an error message on your first frame, or at least inconsistent results from the start.

12-29-2015, 07:29 PM	#3
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	Is your picture from the scan you got back? Measure the images are on the negative itself. They should be well formed and 36mm wide. If so, the problem was with the scanning.

12-29-2015, 07:29 PM	#4
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Do you have the negatives? Is the blank space between frames inconsistent? If it is the there is a problem with the camera. If it isn't then the problem lies with the scanning process not aligning the frames properly. If much of the frame should be dark it is sometimes difficult to determine where the frame boundaries are but that wouldn't be the problem with the sample image given.

12-29-2015, 08:11 PM	#5
bigdavephoto Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East central Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 893	I would say it was something to do with the scanning. You would need to look at the negatives to be sure. If you go to look at the negatives, be sure to handle them by there edges, and if possible, wear some lent free gloves.

12-29-2015, 08:13 PM	#6
seventysixersfan Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 2,054 Original Poster	okay thanks for the advice so far. I have not yet received the negatives-- they will be sent by mail to me in a few days. In the meantime, these are the images that thedarkroom.com had scanned and uploaded online for me to download. I am inclined to rule out scanning errors since I've heard positive things about this website, but I guess it could also be human error. That said, the SLR I got was used, but in excellent working condition, according to Roberts Camera, where I bought it from. I don't know if they had checked the camera's winder. I'll wait to see the negatives before investigating this further with the developing service.

12-29-2015, 08:35 PM	#7
bigdavephoto Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East central Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 893	I am ruling out the camera because if the camera had a problem with the winder, you would be getting double exposures and if I am not mistaken, there also would not be a dividing line between photos. I think it was a problem with the scanner/human error and QC not working that day.

12-29-2015, 09:24 PM	#8
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Based on the example you posted, it is an error in the scanning process. When you get the negs back, they will confirm this. I'd email thedarkroom.com and ask them to rescan or confirm as you have a new camera and need to know if it's the camera or their scanning. The only indication that could be your camera is if there are overlapping double exposures or inconsistent widths of black gaps in the messed up scans.

12-29-2015, 10:49 PM	#9
pentaxus Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central Coast, CA Posts: 1,320	If the black bars are all the same width and off to the side like the example it is the lab.

12-30-2015, 05:00 AM	#10
foto guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Vernon, Connecticut Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 292	I wonder if the scanning is done automatically and no one looked to see that it was misaligned.

12-30-2015, 07:52 AM	#11
AquaDome Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New Carlisle, IN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,475	It looks like they ran it through an automatic scanner and didn't do any QC. This is not the service I have come to expect from The Darkroom. Call them and have them re-scan your stuff.

12-30-2015, 08:28 AM	#12
seventysixersfan Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 2,054 Original Poster	This is all so very helpful, thank you very much. I'll ask the Darkroom to check the scans and see if it's the negatives or my camera.

12-30-2015, 11:32 AM - 1 Like	#13
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	Clearly the auto scanning was misaligned. How can the camera record a black bar in front of it plus a partial image of either the past or not yet taken future image when the shutter opens to capture the incoming light.

12-30-2015, 12:26 PM	#14
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	Scanning issue. I do that frequently when I scan 35mm negatives on my scanner. Scanning misaligned negative strips can capture parts of two frames. Phil.

12-30-2015, 01:02 PM	#15
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	I thought of another remote possibility. If there was a shutter issue creating a partial unexposed area on one side of the frame, the scanner may be auto locating its edge of the fixed-size scanning frame to that black edge to find its starting point and thereby recording a frame separator plus some of the next image. But I also think if you have a shutter problem it would maybe more consistent and often you don't get a sharp, crisp edge of black that a auto-detect software would be looking for. But all will be known when the negatives come back.