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05-23-2016, 09:06 AM   #1
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New to developing, slightly lost by all the information

So I have a MX on the way and want to get going with B&W film photography. I'm quite experienced with digital (about 15 years, started with the *ist DS), but I want to focus more on the skill of photography and less on digital perfection. So..

Got myself a Pentax MX that I can use with my M50 & M135 for starters. Got some colorfilters, Tri-X 400 and ordered some more tools like a changing bag, small developing tank, measuring cups, etc. I'll be photographing people and the occasional landscape. I'll be 'scanning' the negatives with my Sony A7 + Tamron 90 Macro on a home made light box. But now comes the hard part; the chemicals. There is a million threads on this already since everyone has their own preferred process, but I'm hoping to find some answers to my own questions. So here it goes.

1. Since I have limited space and will be moving around a bit I'd like to keep things simple, so for a developer I'm looking at HC-110 because of it's good shelf life and easy preparation of single use baths. But I like grain. It gives the images a certain warmth and I've understood that choice of developer can change the look quite a bit, like more pronounced grain with Rodinal for example. But to keep things simple, what can I do with only HC-110? How do different development times or techniques change the look of the negative? Or is it better to push to 1600 ISO and develop accordingly 'by the book' to get more pronounced grain?

2. Do different stop baths give different results? I was thinking of getting Kodak Indicator stop bath, but can't seem to find it here in Sweden.

3. Same question about the Fixer. Any difference? I can get the T-max fixer here which seems fine?

I'll finish the process with a rinse of distilled water with Photo-flo


4. To simlify even more; Rodinal and Formulary TF-4, no bath, no Photo-flo. Idea's about this? How will the negatives look different from HC-110? (Can't get both for testing)

Thanks!

05-23-2016, 09:27 AM   #2
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I have trouble getting liquid chemicals where I am, so I am stuck with D76 and Kodak fixer, reconstituted from powder and can't give you advice about chemicals. However, I use water as a stop bath (at least three solid rinses, filling the Paterson tank each time) and it seems to work OK. You're trying to dilute any remaining developer still on the film to the point of uselessness and then wash it out, and while having an appropriately pH-optimised solution helps, it is not absolutely essential.


Speaking as a beginner home developer myself, I think the important thing is first to produce a roll full of images, then to RELIABLY produce rolls full of GOOD images, then to start going for particular effects once you're comfortable with the physical process of developing.
05-23-2016, 09:54 AM - 1 Like   #3
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First things first: get yourself some super cheap rolls of B&W to start with (preferably 24 exposure). Let's be perfectly honest here, you're going to screw up the first roll completely. Don't have any photos of value on it, just some pointless snaps of the garden or something like that. your swear count per second is going to be higher than its ever been that first time you try to load the film into the developer tank. Don't worry, take a deep breath, and keep having a go. About half an hour later, you'll have loaded the film, probably with a million fingerprints all over it, and some creases I'd imagine! Don't worry. Just have a crack at developing it. It'll either be too faint, or too dark. Meh, who cares.

Now take that ruined roll of film (once it's dried out), and use it to practice loading the developing tank (in broad daylight). Once you are happy with doing it when you can see what's going on, start practicing doing the same in the changing bag. Repeat as many times as needed until you're happy.

Whichever chemicals you choose, it'll take you another two rolls until you are comfortable. If you then switch to the film you really want to use (rather than the cheapest stuff going), the first roll may be under or over exposed, but that fifth one will be all sorted.

I would advise just diving into the process, figure out what works for you, and then amend as you see fit.

Before I started developing my own film, I got all sorts of conflicting advice. Some people are cowboy developers using whatever they have to hand (I somewhat fall into this category!), others have a scientific precision over the process. You're now going to get 50 different recommendations about which chemicals to use, what developing times to use, and it'll just make you more confused that ever. Just have a crack at it, see what happens, and then seek advice about how to reduce the artefacts (streaks, water marks, bad scans, etc).

That would be my advice - have a play, whether you use the cheapest or most expensive chemicals isn't relevant. It's whether you can get results that you like from what you have. You will get inevitably adjust your technique with whatever you are using, and you will eventually get good results. The fun of developing your own film is to refine the process in the way you like!

---------- Post added 05-23-16 at 06:05 PM ----------

For the record: I recommend using a red or orange filter on your camera, depending on how contrasty you want the final images (red being more contrasty - my preference). I do use a stop (I don't care which, i haven't noticed any difference with different makes). I can't say that it makes the images better, but my earlier non-stop negatives have faded over time. I rinse between developer/stop/fix. I use a tiny drop of washing up liquid during the final rinse, and the very last rinse I use water from a Brita filter. That seems to minimise my streaks on the negatives anyway.
05-23-2016, 10:12 AM   #4
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The results largely depend on the combination film and developer and you probably have to find your combination - just as you like it.
I wouldn't suggest to start with pushing too much, just take the basic developing temperatures and times to start with and try to make changes from there.
Don't use Rodinal / R09 with Tri-X, this is not giving the best results and is a shame for this good and relatively expensive film.
You can take B/W films that are a lot cheaper, like HP5+ and maybe even in bulk so you can make films to try with in even 3200 ASA if you'd like with 12 exposures
Stop-bath: I would recomand to use it with acid. It is cheap (200 or 100 films for about 1 Euro) and it safes your fixer quite a lot. With a good stopbad you stop the proces in a steep way so you can get evenly results and maybe use your fixer 5 to 10 times longer (fixer can be used again and again, also with stop-bath).

And; devoloping is fun!!

05-23-2016, 02:55 PM   #5
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As far as developing B&W film, you can try using a Monobath (R5 MONOBATH DEVELOPER ? New55 FILM it's pretty much a one shot developing liquid).

There's also this site (B&W Film Developing Times | The Massive Dev Chart development chart), which you can choose a certain film & see what the development times are with various developers & developer strength.
05-23-2016, 05:08 PM - 1 Like   #6
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HC110 is an excellent choice for a general purpose film developer.
It is very flexible and has an extremely long shelf-life.

Less concentrated dilutions and longer development times generally increase apparent grain.
Suggest you start with HC110 dilution H (1:63) and take it from there.

There's some good information here: HC110 Unofficial Resource Page

Regarding your other questions a plain water stop bath works fine for films, and T-max fixer should work fine.

Chris

Last edited by ChrisPlatt; 05-23-2016 at 05:57 PM.
05-23-2016, 05:19 PM   #7
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If you haven't yet, you want to get this -> Kodak TRI-X Technical doc

05-24-2016, 06:08 PM   #8
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Don't get too fancy experimenting with variations until you get a well controlled process and consistent results. I wouldn't even mess with filters at first - learn how your chosen film and process work first, then start varying one thing at a time to judge the effect. From the '60s to '80s I used TriX and PanatomicX, developing in Ethol UFG for quality and Acufine for speed, as they were compatible for technique and chemistry. Then after a couple decade break I had to change everything.
I much prefer the Ilford B&W films now for their handling - they dry much flatter than curly TriX. I switched to Rodinal for its tonality, ease of single roll use and flexibility for many film types. Yes, pronounced grain with HP5, but beautiful with PanF.
Learn to be absolutely consistent with processing: dilution, temperature, agitation technique and timing. When results are consistent roll to roll, then try changing one parameter at a time until you get both continued consistency and the results you want.
05-25-2016, 06:24 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
Don't get too fancy experimenting with variations until you get a well controlled process and consistent results. I wouldn't even mess with filters at first - learn how your chosen film and process work first, then start varying one thing at a time to judge the effect. From the '60s to '80s I used TriX and PanatomicX, developing in Ethol UFG for quality and Acufine for speed, as they were compatible for technique and chemistry. Then after a couple decade break I had to change everything.
I much prefer the Ilford B&W films now for their handling - they dry much flatter than curly TriX. I switched to Rodinal for its tonality, ease of single roll use and flexibility for many film types. Yes, pronounced grain with HP5, but beautiful with PanF.
Learn to be absolutely consistent with processing: dilution, temperature, agitation technique and timing. When results are consistent roll to roll, then try changing one parameter at a time until you get both continued consistency and the results you want.
Tom's right, do not get ahead of yourself. Frankly IF you could find someone to process your film (good luck) you'd be better trying to get a decent set of shots before you add trying to learn processing at the same time. Barring that in the "do it yourself" consistent agitation on negative film is important. Learning how to change in a changing bag takes practice, at the time I normally tried to get one sprocket over one of the inner metal slots in the center and use that to "hold" the negative while I spooled it.
05-26-2016, 01:07 PM   #10
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Thanks for all the reply's!

I've ordered Kodak HC-110 and Ilford stopbath and fix, plus Photo-flo. I'll keep it simple to start and I'm preparing for consistency now. The thing that might be hardest to get precise every time is the temperature, but I'm experimenting with finding the right 'setting' on the electrical heating element in my bathroom to get it consistently at 20°C so everything can acclimatise and be at the same temp when developing.
I really want to do the development myself because it will be fun, I'll learn a ton of stuff, it's quicker and I'll be in control (eventually ). Also getting the rolls developed somewhere else is both expensive and takes about 2 weeks. Doing it myself I can do a photoshoot one day and have scanned results the next day. Certainly beats sitting in front of the TV!

I'll post updates when I've developed my first roll, probably mid next week.

Thanks for all the input so far!

//Jelle
05-26-2016, 05:58 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by JelleSE Quote
The thing that might be hardest to get precise every time is the temperature, but I'm experimenting with finding the right 'setting' on the electrical heating element in my bathroom to get it consistently at 20°C so everything can acclimatise and be at the same temp when developing.
In page 4 of the document I provided the link to above shows the various times and temperatures - including HC-110, and the trick is to determine your ambient temperature and use the dev times suggested based on this as it is simpler then controlling the temperature.

Truth be told, I have not really kept close to those times and temperatures in hundreds of rolls processed using TMAX, D-76, HC-110 and XTOL with no issues wet printing or scanning. But I would go with the suggestion about following it closely initially just to account for all the variables. Good luck and share results!
05-27-2016, 12:09 AM   #12
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The easiest way to get a consistent temperature is just to put the bottles (and developing-can) in a water-bath. For example the sink or a bucket. If the temperature of the waterbath including the mixed chemicals and rinsing-water is on the right temperature for developing, the surrounding temperature is not much of an issue.
In my darkroom it can be 6 degrees celcius in winter or 28 degrees celcius in summer but the waterbath is 20 degrees by mixing cold and warm water for the waterbath. With a heating-element of an aquarium it is possible to keep it to the right temperature even easier, or add some hot water every so many minutes if it cools down too quick.
05-27-2016, 03:57 AM - 1 Like   #13
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I also use the temperature curves for a developer to find the suggested time, rather than trying to adjust the temperature. Tap water temperature here varies widely with the season, and in summer is well above usable. So I store a couple 1 gallon bottles of water with my stock chemicals, as the room temperature (heated or A/C) stays in a usable range, and keeps the temp constant for the process. Thus my single use developer (Rodinal concentrate) mixes when I need it, and I use the Ilford film wash method of 3 well-agitated tank fills of bottled water rather than a flowing tap rinse. I set out plastic beakers for developer, stop, fix, 3 washes, and final photoflo as I start. I only use tap flow for washing up the equipment after each step. Thus each beaker is washed, dried, and put away while the next step is in process, so cleanup is done by the time the film is hung. This also lets my use deionized water from my reverse osmosis filter, as our well water has high mineral content.
Of course, when I enlarge and wet print on photo paper I use a tap flowing wash for prints, but that wash temperature isn't critical.
05-27-2016, 02:38 PM   #14
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As others have said just adjust developing time to the ambient temperature.
Except in extremes of temperature water baths are completely unnecessary.

Don't overthink the process. For consistency it's good to be rigorous,
but it's not as hard as some make it. It is as much art as science.
The first few rolls may be harrowing, but success will build your confidence.
Relax and enjoy!

Chris
06-03-2016, 02:36 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
As others have said just adjust developing time to the ambient temperature.
Except in extremes of temperature water baths are completely unnecessary.

Don't overthink the process. For consistency it's good to be rigorous,
but it's not as hard as some make it. It is as much art as science.
The first few rolls may be harrowing, but success will build your confidence.
Relax and enjoy!

Chris
What do you consider "extremes" in this case? Certainly some warn against developing film even in the high twenties degrees.
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