Pentax Auto Bellows A with Slide Copier A - Question

**milaber22** · 03-05-2018, 02:22 PM

In order not to open a new thread and as i recently bought my first film camera i am planning copying slides by using Pentax Auto Bellows A with my K1.
Will i be able to do this with fa 100mm f2.8 wr or another lens is needed? Any other adapters are going to be needed. Although i have read some threads this has not been clear to me.
Thank you in advance

LesDMess · 03-05-2018, 05:12 PM

With my full frame 35mm camera + autobellows, the 50mm works perfectly while a 100mm would be too long. You might need a spacer between the body and the autobellows to be able to mount it properly.

**JimJohnson** · 03-05-2018, 05:35 PM

You are going to potentially run into a couple problems.

First, have you made sure the bellows will mount to the K-1? While both obviously use the K-mount, on some digital Pentax cameras the pentaprism housing is too close to the lens mount to allow this bellows unit to attach. I have the bellows, I don't have a K-1.
Second, although the bellows says Auto Bellows A, you cannot use the 'A' setting on the lens as the contact points are not transmitted back to the camera body. And unless your lens has an aperture ring (don't think it does) you will always be shooting wide-open. Unless the film is exactly flat and parallel to the lens (near impossible), you will likely have soft focus spots. In case you didn't get the manual it says "Note: When you use a Pentax A lens, set the aperture ring at each f-number and do not set it at the "A" (Auto) position.".
Third, there is no auto focus.

And of course you will either want to use manual flash or green-mode stopdown metering with natural light.

My advice? Get one of the well-recognized K or KA 50mm lens, stop down to f/8 or f/11 and bounce a manual flash off a photographic white card beyond the slide duplicator. While a macro lens might be better, I have had good results with my trusty Pentax KA 50 f/1.8 (stopped down as mentioned, of course).

**WPRESTO** · 03-05-2018, 05:43 PM

If you intend to digitize the entire 35mm frame, a 50mm lens is the only thing you can use, nothing shorter, nothing longer. Using a short-mount 100mm you would not be able to use the slide/film holder because it would not position the slide or film far enough away from the lens to permit focusing no matter what the bellows extension. I've tried, and it is impossible. I've also tried with a 40mm lens (the f2.8) and that also does not work. Don't bother investigating the optical problems involved, just accept that to copy 100% of a 35mm slide or negative using a Pentax bellows that is equipped with a slide-film holder, you must use a 50mm lens. No other focal length will work.

**milaber22** · 03-05-2018, 05:49 PM

Thank you for your replies.

**JimJohnson** · 03-05-2018, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

If you intend to digitize the entire 35mm frame, a 50mm lens is the only thing you can use...

True if you are doing a 1:1 reproduction (that is, a film camera or the K-1). Not true if you are using a APS-C camera. Then you are better off with something around 70mm and likely a short extension tube at the slide duplicator end. There are some threads about this in the Forum.

**WPRESTO** · 03-05-2018, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by JimJohnson

True if you are doing a 1:1 reproduction (that is, a film camera or the K-1). Not true if you are using a APS-C camera. Then you are better off with something around 70mm and likely a short extension tube at the slide duplicator end. There are some threads about this in the Forum.

I will not say that it cannot be done, but I experimented with the bellows + the dedicated slide copier attachment on my K3 before I purchased a K1. I tried 35mm macro, 40mm, 50mm, 90mm macro and 100mm bellows-macro. It was not possible to adjust the two bellows (camera to lens and lens to slide) in such a manner as to achieve full coverage of a 35mm slide. If you rigged something that allowed the slide to be positioned further from the lens than the lens-to-slide bellows allows, it might be possible to get all of a 35mm slide into focus, but that would defeat the purpose of the bellows plus slide copier attachment. Might as well us a copy stand and a slight box in a darkened room.

**JimJohnson** · 03-05-2018, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

I will not say that it cannot be done,

Try this: how to - auto bellows slide copier K & dSLR - PentaxForums.com

Scroll down for a photo of the setup .... I have improved the technique a bit since my K-r days, but the concept still works.

LesDMess · 03-06-2018, 05:58 AM

I don't have a K-1 but I know that I can mount a K20D on my autobellows directly.

You should have a remote cable - preferably the locking type, to close down the aperture before you take the shot and to open it after.

**WPRESTO** · 03-06-2018, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by LesDMess

I don't have a K-1 but I know that I can mount a K20D on my autobellows directly.

You should have a remote cable - preferably the locking type, to close down the aperture before you take the shot and to open it after.

I can mount on my K5 or K3 easily, but I cannot get a lens that will allow coverage of an entire 35mm chrome or negative without significant modification of the bellows that sits between the lens and the slide/film holder. The rig as you've pictured it would produce a major deep crop of a FF slide or negative. Others have shown how to use the auto-bellows on an ASP-C camera to get coverage of an entire FF 35mm chrome, but it involves a significant modification of of the anterior bellows using extensions tubes and adapters.

LesDMess · 03-06-2018, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

I can mount on my K5 or K3 easily, but I cannot get a lens that will allow coverage of an entire 35mm chrome or negative without significant modification of the bellows that sits between the lens and the slide/film holder.

I've done it by using a zoom to find that about a 70mm would work and also by reversing the slide holder and removing the diffuser With a 50mm. I have a Coolscan but I wanted to compare it to DSLR copying using a K20D and Nikon D800 both in relative resolution and amount of post work.

matthewevans · 05-21-2023, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by javapop

Ahhhh. This works better. This was really an experiment, first try, not to impressed with the results. Attached is a slide, which is pretty sharp using a loupe. Looks like this system causes the outside areas to loose focus.

Stop the lens down - increase the depth of field. Bellows copier and FF will give better resolution than a copier.

jgnfld · 05-21-2023, 07:07 AM

This thread is many years dead. If it's really important you should consider reposting it as a new thread (with more info) if you think it is needed.

03-05-2018, 05:35 PM	#18
JimJohnson Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,772	You are going to potentially run into a couple problems. First, have you made sure the bellows will mount to the K-1? While both obviously use the K-mount, on some digital Pentax cameras the pentaprism housing is too close to the lens mount to allow this bellows unit to attach. I have the bellows, I don't have a K-1. Second, although the bellows says Auto Bellows A, you cannot use the 'A' setting on the lens as the contact points are not transmitted back to the camera body. And unless your lens has an aperture ring (don't think it does) you will always be shooting wide-open. Unless the film is exactly flat and parallel to the lens (near impossible), you will likely have soft focus spots. In case you didn't get the manual it says "Note: When you use a Pentax A lens, set the aperture ring at each f-number and do not set it at the "A" (Auto) position.". Third, there is no auto focus. And of course you will either want to use manual flash or green-mode stopdown metering with natural light. My advice? Get one of the well-recognized K or KA 50mm lens, stop down to f/8 or f/11 and bounce a manual flash off a photographic white card beyond the slide duplicator. While a macro lens might be better, I have had good results with my trusty Pentax KA 50 f/1.8 (stopped down as mentioned, of course).

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03-05-2018, 02:22 PM	#16
milaber22 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 338	In order not to open a new thread and as i recently bought my first film camera i am planning copying slides by using Pentax Auto Bellows A with my K1. Will i be able to do this with fa 100mm f2.8 wr or another lens is needed? Any other adapters are going to be needed. Although i have read some threads this has not been clear to me. Thank you in advance

03-05-2018, 05:12 PM	#17
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	With my full frame 35mm camera + autobellows, the 50mm works perfectly while a 100mm would be too long. You might need a spacer between the body and the autobellows to be able to mount it properly.

03-05-2018, 05:43 PM	#19
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,084	If you intend to digitize the entire 35mm frame, a 50mm lens is the only thing you can use, nothing shorter, nothing longer. Using a short-mount 100mm you would not be able to use the slide/film holder because it would not position the slide or film far enough away from the lens to permit focusing no matter what the bellows extension. I've tried, and it is impossible. I've also tried with a 40mm lens (the f2.8) and that also does not work. Don't bother investigating the optical problems involved, just accept that to copy 100% of a 35mm slide or negative using a Pentax bellows that is equipped with a slide-film holder, you must use a 50mm lens. No other focal length will work.

03-05-2018, 05:49 PM	#20
milaber22 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 338	Thank you for your replies.

03-05-2018, 06:36 PM	#21
JimJohnson Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,772	Originally posted by WPRESTO If you intend to digitize the entire 35mm frame, a 50mm lens is the only thing you can use... True if you are doing a 1:1 reproduction (that is, a film camera or the K-1). Not true if you are using a APS-C camera. Then you are better off with something around 70mm and likely a short extension tube at the slide duplicator end. There are some threads about this in the Forum.

03-05-2018, 07:58 PM	#22
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,084	Originally posted by JimJohnson True if you are doing a 1:1 reproduction (that is, a film camera or the K-1). Not true if you are using a APS-C camera. Then you are better off with something around 70mm and likely a short extension tube at the slide duplicator end. There are some threads about this in the Forum. I will not say that it cannot be done, but I experimented with the bellows + the dedicated slide copier attachment on my K3 before I purchased a K1. I tried 35mm macro, 40mm, 50mm, 90mm macro and 100mm bellows-macro. It was not possible to adjust the two bellows (camera to lens and lens to slide) in such a manner as to achieve full coverage of a 35mm slide. If you rigged something that allowed the slide to be positioned further from the lens than the lens-to-slide bellows allows, it might be possible to get all of a 35mm slide into focus, but that would defeat the purpose of the bellows plus slide copier attachment. Might as well us a copy stand and a slight box in a darkened room.

03-05-2018, 08:50 PM	#23
JimJohnson Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,772	Originally posted by WPRESTO I will not say that it cannot be done, Try this: how to - auto bellows slide copier K & dSLR - PentaxForums.com Scroll down for a photo of the setup .... I have improved the technique a bit since my K-r days, but the concept still works.

03-06-2018, 05:58 AM	#24
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	I don't have a K-1 but I know that I can mount a K20D on my autobellows directly. You should have a remote cable - preferably the locking type, to close down the aperture before you take the shot and to open it after.

03-06-2018, 06:53 AM	#25
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,084	Originally posted by LesDMess I don't have a K-1 but I know that I can mount a K20D on my autobellows directly. You should have a remote cable - preferably the locking type, to close down the aperture before you take the shot and to open it after. I can mount on my K5 or K3 easily, but I cannot get a lens that will allow coverage of an entire 35mm chrome or negative without significant modification of the bellows that sits between the lens and the slide/film holder. The rig as you've pictured it would produce a major deep crop of a FF slide or negative. Others have shown how to use the auto-bellows on an ASP-C camera to get coverage of an entire FF 35mm chrome, but it involves a significant modification of of the anterior bellows using extensions tubes and adapters.

03-06-2018, 07:49 AM	#26
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by WPRESTO I can mount on my K5 or K3 easily, but I cannot get a lens that will allow coverage of an entire 35mm chrome or negative without significant modification of the bellows that sits between the lens and the slide/film holder. I've done it by using a zoom to find that about a 70mm would work and also by reversing the slide holder and removing the diffuser With a 50mm. I have a Coolscan but I wanted to compare it to DSLR copying using a K20D and Nikon D800 both in relative resolution and amount of post work.

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05-21-2023, 06:26 AM	#27
matthewevans New Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 4	Originally posted by javapop Ahhhh. This works better. This was really an experiment, first try, not to impressed with the results. Attached is a slide, which is pretty sharp using a loupe. Looks like this system causes the outside areas to loose focus. Stop the lens down - increase the depth of field. Bellows copier and FF will give better resolution than a copier.

05-21-2023, 07:07 AM	#28
jgnfld Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,787	This thread is many years dead. If it's really important you should consider reposting it as a new thread (with more info) if you think it is needed.