[Femto1969]

Hi, Team,

I just started developing my own film produced by my Pentax 67. The times when I've done it right have worked out amazingly. And the times that I've goofed... well, not so amazingly.

I'm wondering if you can help a little bit.

I've developed a total of five rolls of medium format film. The first two were done with supervision from a guy I know who has the whole process figured out. He's got a darkroom we work in. They turned out great, and some of the prints did too. The last three rolls I did on my own. And I definitely goofed up.

I'm using Ultrafine Xtreme 400 120. I have a pretty standard press kit; Kodak D76, Kodak Fixer and Hardender, Photo Flo, and I'm skipping the stop bath. I'm doing this all in a developing canister.

I've been using an app on my smartphone, Film Developer Pro, to help guide development times. But I discovered a few problems with my last three developments when it was too late.

First, I have been developing at about 80 degrees. I didn't know that developing warmer would have a negative impact on the film (larger/uglier grain, I guess?). I just thought you had to adjust the time, which I did. Since its so hot in Missouri, my tap runs at about 82 degrees.

Second issue was that for the last two rolls, I used twice the concentration than what I calculated for. I meant to do a 1:1 developer dilution, but I used full strength instead, because I'm still getting my bearings, and forgot to cut the solution. The last roll, I realized this at about 2 minutes too late for that reaction. At full strength and at 80 degrees my development time should have been 4:30, but I went to 6 minutes before I dumped it and started the wash.

TL;DR: I overdeveloped the hell out of some film which I really hope doesn't ruin it. I also developed way too hot. What do you think the impact will be on the negatives? I haven't made any contact sheets or prints, or even scanned the film yet. I need to go to my friend's lab for all that stuff and he's tied up for a week. I'm dying to know if I killed the negatives (although to the naked eye they look fine).

Last question: Whats the best technique for washing film when the tap is running way hot? Do I just need to refrigerate water for the wash in between developing and fixing?

Thank you for the help!

[TomB_tx]

Here in Texas tap water gets even warmer, but the houses are air-conditioned, so I've found a method that works well for me. Also, we are on well water with a softener, so I consider the tap water suspect for developing. We do have an under-sink R.O. filter system for drinking water, so I fill 2 1-gallon bottles with that and keep them stored in my guest-bath darkroom with the chemistry. I use this to make working solutions for processing, so all is at room temperature (70-73). I don't use tap water for any step of film processing, as it would be too great a temperature change and might cause reticulation.
So I do use a stop bath after the developer to avoid a tap water rinse.
After fixing I use the Ilford method of film washing that saves water and lets me do it with my stored water jugs. I fill 3 beakers with water (a tankful each) before development so they are ready, and a 4th also with a few drops of flo for final treatment.
After fully draining the fix, you pour in the first rinse, and do about 15 inversions (not frantic shaking), for agitation to wash the film. Then fully drain that rinse. Repeat with the second rinse, but invert about 30 times, drain and repeat with the third rinse, inverting about 50 times. Chemistry tests show this is equally effective as a long running water rinse. After that I immerse in the very dilute flo, then hang, squeegee and let dry.
Since I normally use a single 35mm reel stainless tank, the whole process uses well less than a gallon of my stored water.

[Femto1969]

This is a good method. While I could get my house down to about 72 degrees, my girlfriend and I are quite comfortable keeping it around 80 degrees in the house. So using room-temperature anything won't work in my case. I will have to use refrigerated water or ice to cool the solutions down in a bath, I suppose.

I do really like your idea of using a stop bath and the Ilford method. That would completely reduce my need to use water straight from the tap.

My tap water is city water, and its pretty decent quality. The guy who is teaching me has no qualms with using it for development. I wonder if it would be best to filter it though. The best I could do without buying something new would be using a Brita jug.

Any other opinions on this?

[photoptimist]

Some people are naturally good at procedures and others need to:

√ write a checklist
√ print it out
√ laminate it
√ use a grease pencil as you go to check-off each step

[Pixelhdr]

Water quality can play a big role in the end result. Most if not all cities use chlorine to disinfect water. This treatment raises the acidity of the water. Most cities then use a lime bed treatment to neutralize the acid. This lime treatment, however, can increase the hardness of the water. Depending on the hardness of the water, it can leave behind a grainy layer of deposit. Film developer typically requires a high pH or alkaline condition, an acidic condition can therefore impede with the reaction. A stop bath is essentially a rinse in acidic condition.

The use of reverse osmosis (RO) water as TomB_tx suggested is a very good route to purify water. If you are still concerned with the acidity of the water, you can pass it through a mix ion exchange bed which will produce the most consistent quality of neutral water.

[tuco]

You need to establish a developing rhythm. I want to emphasize the importance of a proper and consistent agitation profile in developing your own film. It is hardly talked about but your development time is a function of how much or little you agitate your film! Kodak's development times for D-76 were established for the agitation profile they give in their D-76 Data Sheet in case you haven't read it. And that is true with other developer too. It's a good idea to read all the manufacture's data sheets on the products you use.

You can find simpler developers to use than D-76 to start off with. One-shot developers are consistent. You don't need to compensate for number of rolls developed, replenishment or worry about exhaustion due to age with some. I find that a good solution when you are developing film now and then as apposed to you having your development chemicals "on line" and actively ready for use all the time or get them online.

Yes, use the recommended developing temperature or a little above it with time corrections ( another variable in your development process that best left out while learning). How you do that in such hot conditions I couldn't say what's best. Perhaps you should look into using Diafine, a two-bath film developer that uses one development time for about all films in the temperature range of 70-85°F

I'd also note if you are using water for a stop bath don't just stop for 30 seconds like you'd do with an indicator stop bath. Fill and drain the tank about 5 or 6 times. Also consider adding a Hypo Clearing Agent to your process to significanly decrease the time needed to wash your film.

Good luck and have fun.

[Femto1969]

You need to establish a developing rhythm. I want to emphasize the importance of a proper and consistent agitation profile in developing your own film. It is hardly talked about but your development time is a function of how much or little you agitate your film! Kodak's development times for D-76 were established for the agitation profile they give in their D-76 Data Sheet in case you haven't read it. And that is true with other developer too. It's a good idea to read all the manufacture's data sheets on the products you use.

You can find simpler developers to use than D-76 to start off with. One-shot developers are consistent. You don't need to compensate for number of rolls developed, replenishment or worry about exhaustion due to age with some. I find that a good solution when you are developing film now and then as apposed to you having your development chemicals "on line" and actively ready for use all the time or get them online.

Yes, use the recommended developing temperature or a little above it with time corrections ( another variable in your development process that best left out while learning). How you do that in such hot conditions I couldn't say what's best. Perhaps you should look into using Diafine, a two-bath film developer that uses one development time for about all films in the temperature range of 70-85°F

I'd also note if you are using water for a stop bath don't just stop for 30 seconds like you'd do with an indicator stop bath. Fill and drain the tank about 5 or 6 times. Also consider adding a Hypo Clearing Agent to your process to significanly decrease the time needed to wash your film.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks, Tuco, this is all great advice. I have not gotten a clear understanding about how to properly agitate. I'll read closely Kodak's data sheet. Right now I agitate for the first 30 seconds of development, then 15 seconds for the beginning of every subsequent minute.

I'll consider using Diafine since it would completely skip the need for me to cool my chemicals and tap water wash.

I have been washing thoroughly with tap water to replace the stop bath process.

Is Hypo Clearing Agent the same or similar to Photo Flo?

And does anyone have any notion about what I did to my poor film? Is it trashed or damaged?

[tuco]

Is Hypo Clearing Agent the same or similar to Photo Flo?

No. Photo Flo is a wetting agent used to help remove potential water residue stains on the film. It would be the last process before drying. Mix with distilled water if you using Kodak's Photo-Plo Solution and have hard water. Hypo Clearing Agent is used to speed up removing the fixer (aka hypo) off the film before washing. After fixing you'd wash the film in water for about 30 seconds ( increases life of the Hypo Agent) then apply the Hypo Agent per directions.

[Femto1969]

No. Photo Flo is a wetting agent used to help remove water residue on the film. It would be the last process before drying. Mix with distilled water if you using Kodak's Photo-Plo Solution and have hard water.

Okay, thank you for all of the help. I will research all of this and come up with a new solution.

---------- Post added 07-18-17 at 01:31 PM ----------

Water quality can play a big role in the end result. Most if not all cities use chlorine to disinfect water. This treatment raises the acidity of the water. Most cities then use a lime bed treatment to neutralize the acid. This lime treatment, however, can increase the hardness of the water. Depending on the hardness of the water, it can leave behind a grainy layer of deposit. Film developer typically requires a high pH or alkaline condition, an acidic condition can therefore impede with the reaction. A stop bath is essentially a rinse in acidic condition.

The use of reverse osmosis (RO) water as TomB_tx suggested is a very good route to purify water. If you are still concerned with the acidity of the water, you can pass it through a mix ion exchange bed which will produce the most consistent quality of neutral water.

Does spring water/purified water bought in the store do the same trick? I'm not really excited about buying a water purifier for my rental place. Thank you!

[Pixelhdr]

Okay, thank you for all of the help. I will research all of this and come up with a new solution.

---------- Post added 07-18-17 at 01:31 PM ----------



Does spring water/purified water bought in the store do the same trick? I'm not really excited about buying a water purifier for my rental place. Thank you!

Quality of bottled water varies greatly from no treatment what-so-ever to distilled water. Given that you don't want to install purifier, I would opt for water that is labelled DISTILLED.

[Femto1969]

Quality of bottled water varies greatly from no treatment what-so-ever to distilled water. Given that you don't want to install purifier, I would opt for water that is labelled DISTILLED.

Wonderful - thank you!

[cpk]

I have been processing film for over 60 years, primarily in Montreal and Toronto. I have never felt the need to use any other than tap water.

[John Poirier]

I have been processing film for over 60 years, primarily in Montreal and Toronto. I have never felt the need to use any other than tap water.

I've only been processing for 45-odd years, but I agree. I've used water from many different sources without difficulty. If it ain't broke don't fix it. For those of you who may not believe us, get a copy of "Controls in Black and White Photography" by Richard J. Henry. IIRC he dealt with the issue in some detail. In any case, it's a good reference book.

In terms of the effects of high temperature, 82 degrees is probably OK. Just make sure you compensate development time for it properly, and keep the temperature of the rest of the steps close to the same. One issue with some developers is that at higher temperatures the developing time drops to under 5 minutes, which makes even development problematic. Just dilute the developer more or use a less active one to increase time.

In the late 70s I ran a black and white lab for a newspaper publisher. I did lots of push processing at 85 degrees to speed things up. No problems.

[cpk]

I'm sorry, John Poirier; I'm not trying to pull rank. I programmed computers in COBOL for over 25 years, but 10 years experience was just as good as mine. I would recommend a hardening fixer if over 80 degrees, but your points are very good.

[John Poirier]

I'm sorry, John Poirier; I'm not trying to pull rank. I programmed computers in COBOL for over 25 years, but 10 years experience was just as good as mine. I would recommend a hardening fixer if over 80 degrees, but your points are very good.

Oops- I intended to be humorous, not offended! In my case, maybe I have six months' experience repeated 80 times.

Yes, the hardening fixer point is also good. I think I found Kodak Rapid Fixer somewhat better than powder hardening fiixers at high temps. These days I use an Ilford liquid concentrate, but only at around 68 degrees so can't comment on higher temperatures.

Cheers