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08-08-2017, 11:46 AM   #1
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Epson Scan resets parameters after I hit "Preview" or "Zoom" (V500)

Hi there, it's me again with some V500 vs Epson Scan trouble. As usual, I'll start off with a lengthy description of how I ran into the problem. If you don't care about that, the last three paragraphs describe the software problem I have.

I want to scan film that I shot with a stereo camera. The camera has two lenses/two shutters and exposes two frames at the same time, but not right next to each other on the film. Fun stuff.
In order to have things look alright in the end, the two frames should look identical (aside from the slight change in perspective, of course). To achieve this, I simply pull a frame around exposure no. 1 of the pair first, adjust scanning settings (dark/light areas, colour, contrast, etc.) to my liking and then "copy" the frame and simply place it on exposure no.2. In theory, both frames should come out as individual files, but with the same overall look. At least that's what I expected.

Now, when looking at the pairs of scans I made, I wondered if one of the two lenses had significantly lower contrast and saturation than the other (it's a FED Stereo, you hear all kinds of things about quality control in soviet/russian camera factories and after all, the camera itself is not the youngest anymore). Turns out that sometimes it was the left lens, other times it was the right. I wondered now if it depended on the angle of the sun/light source in the shot or if there were some other factors that could have lead to a drop in contrast, but I couldn't really see a pattern that would point to some mechanical or other faults during the exposure of the film. Turns out, it's always the scanning-frame that I copied and placed on exposure no. 2 of any pair.

I looked closely at the scanning settings now and realized that everytime I hit the "zoom" button, the settings on the active frame will be reset to "automatic exposure". In my case that would be frame no. 2 of my pairs, as I zoom in to place the copy in the exact right spot. When looking at the small preview window, I probably didn't realize this, as the differences might be subtle, but it's enough to throw you off when looking at the final results. To me, this doesn't make any sense at all. If I copy that frame, I want the settings to stay the same.

Did anyone of you notice the same thing? Some time ago I posted on here with some trouble I had with Epson Scan and my fresh Windows 10 install. It seems that people get all kinds of weird individual problems with their Epson Scan - for some people some things work, for other people others don't. I'd just like to know if what I described here is normal or if I missed some setting somewhere. I'm in professional mode, by the way.

Oh, and as always, I'm not planning to buy Vuescan. In theory (especially when scanning single frames), Epsonscan does what I want it to do and after fiddling with the settings for an invidual frame I usually don't zoom into the same one another time, so the settings aren't reset by the software. In this case, it's quite unnerving, though.

08-08-2017, 12:20 PM   #2
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That isn't the behavior I'd expect when copying a frame (which I've certainly done before), but I'm not at the scanner at the moment. One thing I'm quite sure would work is to simply drag (or adjust the borders; I forget if you can drag) the frame from the first exposure to the second. I have a v700, but AFAIK it's the same software. Although I run mine on Mac OS.
08-08-2017, 12:28 PM   #3
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Sounds like you have Epson Scan set to Color Control Mode.
If you go to Configuration, then the Color tab, then select ICM, it should solve the problem.
08-08-2017, 12:49 PM   #4
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First off, thanks for the quick replies!

QuoteOriginally posted by baro-nite Quote
That isn't the behavior I'd expect when copying a frame (which I've certainly done before), but I'm not at the scanner at the moment. One thing I'm quite sure would work is to simply drag (or adjust the borders; I forget if you can drag) the frame from the first exposure to the second. I have a v700, but AFAIK it's the same software. Although I run mine on Mac OS.
Hi baro, I could drag them, but it would literally be a drag. There are 14 frames (or 7 pairs) on the two strips of film I can put in the holder. While I don't always scan everything, that's often still a lot of individual scans. I like to have everything adjusted and scan in a batch to do something else while the scanner is busy. Also, when dragging the frame, I'd still like to rely on zooming in to make sure I don't cut off any borders. If something was off in a pair and dimensions or crops turned out differently, it would make working with them afterwards a little too tedious for my tastes.

Next time you start your scanner, I'd be curious to hear if the software behaves the same.

QuoteOriginally posted by Swift1 Quote
Sounds like you have Epson Scan set to Color Control Mode.
If you go to Configuration, then the Color tab, then select ICM, it should solve the problem.
Hi Colton, I am in ICM mode. Did you just check with your own scanner and saw a difference between the modes or is this more of a guess? If so, that would be a hint for me to try reinstalling it once again. I had it set to ICM all the time as the output will be in sRGB and I figured that's more useful for printing and it doesn't apply any more automatic interpretation from the software, which I try to keep out.

08-08-2017, 01:21 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arvid Quote

Hi Colton, I am in ICM mode. Did you just check with your own scanner and saw a difference between the modes or is this more of a guess? If so, that would be a hint for me to try reinstalling it once again. I had it set to ICM all the time as the output will be in sRGB and I figured that's more useful for printing and it doesn't apply any more automatic interpretation from the software, which I try to keep out.
Are you using the Auto Exposure button in the main scanner dialog, if that is on, it will reset your exposure everytime you move the crop box.
Also, check that the tone curve isn't set to Auto.
08-08-2017, 01:39 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Swift1 Quote
Are you using the Auto Exposure button in the main scanner dialog, if that is on, it will reset your exposure everytime you move the crop box.
Also, check that the tone curve isn't set to Auto.
I use the AE button only for starters sometimes on the first frame, then adjust from there and copy the frame. And I guess that's how I'll continue doing it - I found the solution and it was easy and slightly too obvious:

You had me look into the settings again and in the menu that lets you decide between Epson's and ICM mode, there's a slider for automatic exposure... duh! It was on the "recommended" setting... simple as that. Sliding it all the way to the left says "low", but it actually seems to mean "off" and that fixed it. At first sight I didn't realize that this slider was active at all, as it is next to the option to not have any colour correction at all. I thought if I had ICM selected already, the slider wouldn't be in any connection with it.

So thanks for making me look twice (or thrice?) at everything again, I guess that's all it takes most of the time!
08-08-2017, 01:45 PM - 1 Like   #7
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Hope you got it all sorted out
08-08-2017, 02:01 PM   #8
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Well, at least the automatic reset doesn't bother me anymore. Had a quick go and both scans still come out differently. Slightly more contrast and a tint of red on the one, less contrast and slightly more green on the other one. Will have to check if this is somehow related to differences in the lenses, placement on the scanner or what, but the most frustrating part of software not doing what I thought it should do is ruled out.

Not sure if this .gif will be displayed correctly, but I'll give it a try.



Otherwise you can visit this link to see an example. The link will expire in a few hours. Not really an impressive example, but I have people in most of my shots and I don't feel comfortable posting these. The tree was the first thing available from what was already loaded in the scanner. It's really obvious in the leaves in the top left corner, for example. Also the texture on the tree itself changes contrast somewhat. If you look at the rock in the lower right corner, you'll see the change in colour. Of course it's compressed heavily, but it's as visible in the original scans, as well.

08-08-2017, 04:15 PM   #9
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It could be from the lenses.
I have run into similar issues scanning triptychs. I think in my case it was caused by slight lighting changes between frames, and the changes in the angle of the lens relative to the sun.

This triptych was shot (all three frames) within about 30 seconds total time. All three frames were scanned with identical settings. The left frame has a slight red cast it that the other 2 frames don't have. I'm fairly sure it isn't from scanning or editing.

08-09-2017, 03:11 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Yep, it's definitely visible there, too. Good to see that there's variation in characteristics even when using one and the same lens under just slightly different conditions.
By now I suspect there's some internal reflection thing going on or a small light leak on my camera. Will investigate into that further.

The good old triptych, by the way. Thanks for reminding me of these. I remember complimenting you on them when you posted a few in the film thread. I just recently drilled a wider hole in my Rolleiflex Panorama head (take that, purists and collectors!) to be able to use a 1/4" tripod screw. Now I just need my Yashica back and soon I'll be able to try some trip or more tychs, too. Years later.
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