old film question -- useable? any value?

**travelswsage** · 10-26-2017, 08:43 AM

I had stopped shooting my Arca Swiss and Pentax 67 about 10 years ago and left photography for a while. I have somewhere between 700 to 1000 sheets of 4x5 that have been frozen since purchase (2004 to 2006) expiration dates. I also have some boxes and a couple hundred sheets of quickload and some 120 film that has been refrigerated since the same period. The vast majority of the film is Provia and Velvia with some Ektachrome thrown in, the 120 also with some Konica Infrared thrown in.

Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? If so, what would be a fair value? Any thoughts appreciated.

Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film.

Last edited by travelswsage; 10-26-2017 at 08:55 AM.

timw4mail · 10-26-2017, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by travelswsage

I had stopped shooting my Arca Swiss and Pentax 67 about 10 years ago and left photography for a while. I have somewhere between 700 to 1000 sheets of 4x5 that have been frozen since purchase (2004 to 2006) expiration dates. I also have some boxes and a couple hundred sheets of quickload and some 120 film that has been refrigerated since the same period. The vast majority of the film is Provia and Velvia with some Ektachrome thrown in, the 120 also with some Konica Infrared thrown in.

Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? If so, what would be a fair value? Any thoughts appreciated.

Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film.

Assuming normal levels of background radiation...it seems like the film should be pretty usable still.

There are a few users who seem to specialize in old cold-stored film.

stevebrot · 10-26-2017, 09:02 AM

B&W has a much longer shelf life than color films and is often still good even after 20 years of more if stored refrigerated/frozen. Color may still be good, but it is hard to tell without doing a few test shots to check for color shift.

I have purchased and used old film B&W film (Panatomic X) with quite good results. It and Technical Pan have a cult status and fetch a decent price. I can't say about color films and suspect that the general response here will be to consume your stores with wild abandon rather than seek to sell. (Possible exception being made for the Ektachrome, which may be worth finding a buyer for.)

Steve

stevebrot · 10-26-2017, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

(Possible exception being made for the Ektachrome, which may be worth finding a buyer for.)

I should also throw in that expired color film is popular with the Lomography crowd because of the off colors. Those who do pinhole work might be interested in the 4x5 stock, though for bargain prices.

Steve

Swift1 · 10-26-2017, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by travelswsage

I had stopped shooting my Arca Swiss and Pentax 67 about 10 years ago and left photography for a while. I have somewhere between 700 to 1000 sheets of 4x5 that have been frozen since purchase (2004 to 2006) expiration dates. I also have some boxes and a couple hundred sheets of quickload and some 120 film that has been refrigerated since the same period. The vast majority of the film is Provia and Velvia with some Ektachrome thrown in, the 120 also with some Konica Infrared thrown in.

Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? If so, what would be a fair value? Any thoughts appreciated.

Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film.

If it has been frozen since new, it should still be good and perform basically as new.
I would check ebay for an idea of current values.

**Alex645** · 10-26-2017, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by travelswsage

Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film.

Cibachrome was renamed Ilfochrome for the paper using the P-30 process in 1992, so your stock color chems are at least 25 years old.

If opened or exposed to heat, it can go bad quickly. If unopened, kept in a cool dark dry place, it could still be viable assuming someone still has Ilfochrome paper that hasnʻt expired. In general, powder kits had a much longer shelf life than liquid solutions.

**twilhelm** · 10-26-2017, 01:26 PM

Most of your film should be good still. I have a LOT of expired film and other than the P3200, the black and white film works great. Some of mine was purchased early 90s. As stated, the color film has some color degradation, depending on age. My chemicals on the other hand, Rodinal, is no good at all. I had to purchase new stock.

**cpk** · 10-26-2017, 04:08 PM

From an earlier posting of mine:

Film still ages even if it is in a freezer the entire time. From a Kodak web site
Storage and Handling of Unprocessed Film

Maintaining Film Quality with Refrigeration

Refrigerating camera films reduces the photographic effects of long-term storage, but refrigeration cannot reduce the effects of ambient gamma radiation. Naturally occurring gamma radiation increases the D-min and toe densities and also increases grain. Higher speed films are affected more by gamma radiation than lower speed films. A camera film with an EI (Exposure Index) of 800 has a much greater change than an EI 200 film.

Back around 2005 I started to worry that film would disappear so I started stockpiling it. The film has been in a freezer the entire time except for a year when I was in transit from one location to another and my film was in a storage locker. Even during that year the film would have been in a frozen state almost the entire winter.

I am now starting to test that film. So far I have tested Kodak TMax 3200, Ilford Delta 3200, and Kodak Tri-X. Fog levels on the films are high and the two ISO 3200 films are now effectively ISO 800. The Tri-X still appears to work at ISO 400. All films were processed in Rodinal for the normal lengths of time. I am continuing my testing with other films as well.

Read more at: Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com

**travelswsage** · 10-26-2017, 05:56 PM

Thanks everyone for all the great answers. It never occurred to me that the Ilfochrome chemicals (double checked it is Ilfochrome on the box, not Cibachrome) would need paper -- go figure ... since as best I can remember I don't think I did any printing after 2003 so it is approx. 15 yrs. old & it's probably not worth trying to do anything with. I'll start checking ebay to get an idea on film values and maybe get it up on the buy/sell board eventually.

I am hoping that procrastinating, diverting, ignoring and if all else fails a special dinner out for my wife, along with the good faith sacrifice of the Ilfochrome may buy me time before I really have to do something with the film ...

tuco · 10-27-2017, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by travelswsage

Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell?

I have some Tri-X in 120 roll and sheet film from around the year 2000. It has always been in a freezer. I have taken some out and use it a few years ago. And I recently shot up several rolls of Delta 3200 that expired in 2013 and posted here on PF. My conclusion from these samples is that the faster the film is, the shorter its effective life. Each film had a visually noticeable fogging of its base. The Tri-X was about the same amount fogging as the Delta 3200 which I found surprising because the Delta's age.

Now both films produce acceptable scans. The film base fogging means less contrast in the film. The blacks won't get any deeper than the film's base + fog, for example. At what point is this fogging too much? But if you're after the deepest blacks and spectacular highlights in your results, it's best to say with pretty fresh film. I can't say what the film's value is.

10-26-2017, 08:43 AM	#1
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385	old film question -- useable? any value? I had stopped shooting my Arca Swiss and Pentax 67 about 10 years ago and left photography for a while. I have somewhere between 700 to 1000 sheets of 4x5 that have been frozen since purchase (2004 to 2006) expiration dates. I also have some boxes and a couple hundred sheets of quickload and some 120 film that has been refrigerated since the same period. The vast majority of the film is Provia and Velvia with some Ektachrome thrown in, the 120 also with some Konica Infrared thrown in. Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? If so, what would be a fair value? Any thoughts appreciated. Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film. Last edited by travelswsage; 10-26-2017 at 08:55 AM.

10-26-2017, 04:08 PM	#8
cpk Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 638	From an earlier posting of mine: Film still ages even if it is in a freezer the entire time. From a Kodak web site Storage and Handling of Unprocessed Film Maintaining Film Quality with Refrigeration Refrigerating camera films reduces the photographic effects of long-term storage, but refrigeration cannot reduce the effects of ambient gamma radiation. Naturally occurring gamma radiation increases the D-min and toe densities and also increases grain. Higher speed films are affected more by gamma radiation than lower speed films. A camera film with an EI (Exposure Index) of 800 has a much greater change than an EI 200 film. Back around 2005 I started to worry that film would disappear so I started stockpiling it. The film has been in a freezer the entire time except for a year when I was in transit from one location to another and my film was in a storage locker. Even during that year the film would have been in a frozen state almost the entire winter. I am now starting to test that film. So far I have tested Kodak TMax 3200, Ilford Delta 3200, and Kodak Tri-X. Fog levels on the films are high and the two ISO 3200 films are now effectively ISO 800. The Tri-X still appears to work at ISO 400. All films were processed in Rodinal for the normal lengths of time. I am continuing my testing with other films as well. Read more at: Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com Last edited by cpk; 10-26-2017 at 04:12 PM. Reason: small formatting corrections

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10-26-2017, 08:58 AM	#2
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by travelswsage I had stopped shooting my Arca Swiss and Pentax 67 about 10 years ago and left photography for a while. I have somewhere between 700 to 1000 sheets of 4x5 that have been frozen since purchase (2004 to 2006) expiration dates. I also have some boxes and a couple hundred sheets of quickload and some 120 film that has been refrigerated since the same period. The vast majority of the film is Provia and Velvia with some Ektachrome thrown in, the 120 also with some Konica Infrared thrown in. Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? If so, what would be a fair value? Any thoughts appreciated. Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film. Assuming normal levels of background radiation...it seems like the film should be pretty usable still. There are a few users who seem to specialize in old cold-stored film.

10-26-2017, 09:02 AM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	B&W has a much longer shelf life than color films and is often still good even after 20 years of more if stored refrigerated/frozen. Color may still be good, but it is hard to tell without doing a few test shots to check for color shift. I have purchased and used old film B&W film (Panatomic X) with quite good results. It and Technical Pan have a cult status and fetch a decent price. I can't say about color films and suspect that the general response here will be to consume your stores with wild abandon rather than seek to sell. (Possible exception being made for the Ektachrome, which may be worth finding a buyer for.) Steve

10-26-2017, 09:07 AM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot (Possible exception being made for the Ektachrome, which may be worth finding a buyer for.) I should also throw in that expired color film is popular with the Lomography crowd because of the off colors. Those who do pinhole work might be interested in the 4x5 stock, though for bargain prices. Steve

10-26-2017, 09:09 AM	#5
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Originally posted by travelswsage I had stopped shooting my Arca Swiss and Pentax 67 about 10 years ago and left photography for a while. I have somewhere between 700 to 1000 sheets of 4x5 that have been frozen since purchase (2004 to 2006) expiration dates. I also have some boxes and a couple hundred sheets of quickload and some 120 film that has been refrigerated since the same period. The vast majority of the film is Provia and Velvia with some Ektachrome thrown in, the 120 also with some Konica Infrared thrown in. Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? If so, what would be a fair value? Any thoughts appreciated. Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film. If it has been frozen since new, it should still be good and perform basically as new. I would check ebay for an idea of current values.

10-26-2017, 10:49 AM	#6
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by travelswsage Also, same question on box of old Ilford Cibachrome chemicals -- probably same age as the film. Cibachrome was renamed Ilfochrome for the paper using the P-30 process in 1992, so your stock color chems are at least 25 years old. If opened or exposed to heat, it can go bad quickly. If unopened, kept in a cool dark dry place, it could still be viable assuming someone still has Ilfochrome paper that hasnʻt expired. In general, powder kits had a much longer shelf life than liquid solutions.

10-26-2017, 01:26 PM	#7
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	Most of your film should be good still. I have a LOT of expired film and other than the P3200, the black and white film works great. Some of mine was purchased early 90s. As stated, the color film has some color degradation, depending on age. My chemicals on the other hand, Rodinal, is no good at all. I had to purchase new stock.

10-26-2017, 05:56 PM	#9
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Thanks everyone for all the great answers. It never occurred to me that the Ilfochrome chemicals (double checked it is Ilfochrome on the box, not Cibachrome) would need paper -- go figure ... since as best I can remember I don't think I did any printing after 2003 so it is approx. 15 yrs. old & it's probably not worth trying to do anything with. I'll start checking ebay to get an idea on film values and maybe get it up on the buy/sell board eventually. I am hoping that procrastinating, diverting, ignoring and if all else fails a special dinner out for my wife, along with the good faith sacrifice of the Ilfochrome may buy me time before I really have to do something with the film ...

10-27-2017, 10:09 AM	#10
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by travelswsage Does anyone have any experience with film of this age -- is it useable? Would it have any value if I offered it for purchase or trade on the buy/sell? I have some Tri-X in 120 roll and sheet film from around the year 2000. It has always been in a freezer. I have taken some out and use it a few years ago. And I recently shot up several rolls of Delta 3200 that expired in 2013 and posted here on PF. My conclusion from these samples is that the faster the film is, the shorter its effective life. Each film had a visually noticeable fogging of its base. The Tri-X was about the same amount fogging as the Delta 3200 which I found surprising because the Delta's age. Now both films produce acceptable scans. The film base fogging means less contrast in the film. The blacks won't get any deeper than the film's base + fog, for example. At what point is this fogging too much? But if you're after the deepest blacks and spectacular highlights in your results, it's best to say with pretty fresh film. I can't say what the film's value is.