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12-27-2017, 05:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
Hello again

I switched film shop developer .. I think it is nicer result. Still I think that it's not comparable with the bw prints iconic photos I see online. A bit more harsh.

I totally love the SMC 50mm F1.4 ...

TRI X at ISO 400

Comments on grain/exposure development welcomed.
There is a certain graininess and lack of tonality that isn't normal for Tri-X that is either being caused by the developer type, age, dilution, temperature, etc, or it is caused by the way it is being scanned.

Do you know what developer was used and any details such as dilution, temperature, etc?
Do you know how the negs were scanned; the scanner, settings, etc?

12-28-2017, 02:52 AM   #17
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Unfortunately I don't. It is supposed to be in one of the best in Athens but being in Greece there aren't many options available to develop the film and I start to believe they are not too experienced or just don't care much

12-28-2017, 03:25 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
But what makes the bar high ?
You want your prints 'to be comparable to iconic bw photos' - this is very ambitious goal and this is what I meant by 'setting the bar high'.
12-28-2017, 03:40 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentageek Quote
You want your prints 'to be comparable to iconic bw photos' - this is very ambitious goal and this is what I meant by 'setting the bar high'.
Besides composition which is out of discussion .. shouldn't development of the film produce the same results as far as film development is concerned?



12-28-2017, 03:43 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
Unfortunately I don't. It is supposed to be in one of the best in Athens but being in Greece there aren't many options available to develop the film and I start to believe they are not too experienced or just don't care much
Then I'd suggest, given your situation to consider the following options:

a) Ask the lab what film do they think gets the best results.
b) Try Ilford XP2+ Super 400. It's a monochromatic negative developed in color chemistry (C-41).
c) Try shooting with a sharper, higher contrast, less apparent grain film like either Kodak TMax 400 or Ilford Delta 400.
d) Shoot with a full spectrum color negative like Kodak Ektar 100 and then with the scan, in post processing, convert it to grey scale.

To eliminate potential factors that degrade the image, use film that is bought in stores that are air conditioned or kept fresh in a refrigerator and do not use or buy films after their expiration date.

---------- Post added 12-28-17 at 05:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
Besides composition which is out of discussion .. shouldn't development of the film produce the same results as far as film development is concerned?
If I understand your question, no. The results of your image on your negative will be affected by many developing factors including, developer type, age, dilution, temperature, developing time, and agitation.

Different developers all have different characteristics from cost, shelf life, speed, grain structure, tonal range, contrast, etc.

With traditional Kodak B&W films, D-76 is a common standard, but I prefer Kodak XTOL better. With traditional Ilford films, Ilford ID-11 is optimized for their own emulsions. With Kodak TMax 100 or 400, TMax developer works well, whereas Ilford Delta 100 or 400, Ilford Ilfotec DD-X is optimized.

These are the common developers, but many PF members have their own formulas or preferences such as using Acufine, Microphen, HC-110, Ilfosol-3, Perceptol, and many more.

I used to work at a commercial photo lab. If the owner or manager doesn't care about quality, they will often buy cheaper chems or not replenish the developer at the recommended rate. Iconic photos are produced by photographers that understand taking the photo is only the first step in a process of making a photo. The post processing in either a wet lab or a computer is the second phase of creation and the final phase is printing.
12-28-2017, 04:36 AM   #21
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Omg ... I am beginning to understand that one should develop his own film ....

And I am lousy but in manual tasks .. rather bad for developing in bags at home

12-28-2017, 07:39 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
Hello again

I switched film shop developer .. I think it is nicer result. Still I think that it's not comparable with the bw prints iconic photos I see online. A bit more harsh.

I totally love the SMC 50mm F1.4 ...

TRI X at ISO 400

Comments on grain/exposure development welcomed.
It looks as though your development may be somewhere in the ball park for scanning/printing. But I believe that your main problem now seems to be around exposure relating to your ISO setting (making assumptions that camera metering accurate!).

If you are rating TRI X at its box rating of ISO 400 then this is potentially your issue and you may actually be underexposing by 1 EV. The resulting negatives having very little detail in the shadow areas. Over many years TRI X my go to film for all sorts of jobs (only MF and LF no 35mm). It also depended on where the film manufactured and its designation as professional or standard with professional having a rating of ISO 320 (5x4 film and from memory!!)

Used 1000's of rolls and sheet film I never found any that could be rated at anywhere near its designated ISO - on average needed to rate at 1/2 i.e. ISO 200 to hold detail in the shadows.

I would suggest trying a roll again but this time basing exposure as if the film ISO 200 - you may even want to mix and match between 200 and 400 to see the effects on the same roll. Use the same lab again, hopefully they will have some form of quality control for consistency
12-28-2017, 08:37 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by TonyW Quote
It looks as though your development may be somewhere in the ball park for scanning/printing. But I believe that your main problem now seems to be around exposure relating to your ISO setting (making assumptions that camera metering accurate!).

If you are rating TRI X at its box rating of ISO 400 then this is potentially your issue and you may actually be underexposing by 1 EV. The resulting negatives having very little detail in the shadow areas. Over many years TRI X my go to film for all sorts of jobs (only MF and LF no 35mm). It also depended on where the film manufactured and its designation as professional or standard with professional having a rating of ISO 320 (5x4 film and from memory!!)

Used 1000's of rolls and sheet film I never found any that could be rated at anywhere near its designated ISO - on average needed to rate at 1/2 i.e. ISO 200 to hold detail in the shadows.

I would suggest trying a roll again but this time basing exposure as if the film ISO 200 - you may even want to mix and match between 200 and 400 to see the effects on the same roll. Use the same lab again, hopefully they will have some form of quality control for consistency
Air ai captain.

Will shoot a film at ISO 200 as you suggested. Should I tell the lab it's shot at 200 or let them develop it as thought it was shot at 400 ?



12-28-2017, 08:51 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
I expose with the built in lightmeter of the MX.
Has your MX been CLAed lately? Your meter may be off, as well as the light seals need to be replaced. Also are you using any kind of coloured filter? (Yellow, orange or red)

Phil.
12-28-2017, 08:56 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kupepe Quote
Air ai captain.

Will shoot a film at ISO 200 as you suggested. Should I tell the lab it's shot at 200 or let them develop it as thought it was shot at 400 ?
No, don't tell the lab anything , you do not want them trying to compensate development time, temp, dilution or agitation at least at this time.

Increasing the base exposure is what you are aiming to do and the most effect will be in the low values much less in the highlights (this more affected by development). What should happen is that you will start to record more detail in the shadows that previously just dropped off the toe of the film curve leaving you with a better/extended usable tonal range for printing. In turn this should help you to record this added information in the scan benefitting the final product
12-28-2017, 09:46 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Has your MX been CLAed lately? Your meter may be off, as well as the light seals need to be replaced. Also are you using any kind of coloured filter? (Yellow, orange or red)

Phil.
It has been CLAed in June. Probably the most trustworthy technician in Athens.

No filters used.

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