What's wrong with my color scans?

murrelet · 02-18-2018, 11:33 PM

I've been getting my C-41 film developed and scanned by a local lab. I've been happy with their scans. 6-ish MP scans cost $7.50 a roll (35mm or 120). With processing, that amounts to $11.25 per roll. I recently acquired an Epson V550 scanner, mainly because I had been unhappy with the BW scans from the lab. It's been brilliant being able to develop BW on my own and get very high resolution scans that look great. I was hoping to have the lab develop my C-41 rolls and scan at home. But this is what I've been getting, lab scan from their Noritsu S-2 on left, my scan on right:

Colors look terrible! I'm wondering how much of the difference is due to

Scanner software color settings (EPSON Scan 3.9.2.2US software)
Software itself (should I look into SilverFast?)
Need to calibrate the scanner (I bought the scanner used; previous owner claimed to hardly use it and was almost new)
Scanner itself

**twilhelm** · 02-19-2018, 01:03 AM

I’ve heard the Epson software is limited and you can have color issues, I’ve never used it, but several reviews have mentioned it. I do have extensive experience with Silverfast, which may have a bit of a learning curve, but gives you extensive control of color profiles. Vuescan is another program which I’ve used a little. It appeared to have a good user interface, but there are others here that can comment further on that.

IgorZ · 02-19-2018, 03:08 AM

I'll second that. I haven't had colour issues with Silverfast. I have had colour issues with my flatbed Canon and Canon software. I can't remember what I did, but basically I had to play around with the settings to get rid of it. I had a greenish cast as well.

antipattern · 02-19-2018, 04:29 AM

The Epson software's results depend a lot on the settings. If I remember correctly, there were settings for brightness/exposure and colour correction. Depending on the film, you might get different colour accuracy. It might be worth playing with the settings first.

tuco · 02-19-2018, 09:39 AM

You'll have color balance problems scanning negative color film in general. Scanning software usually comes with some color film profiles. If you have a profile that is a good start. If not, let's hope another one works well enough or you have some white, grey or black in your scene to help you manually balance it.

In your scan, you have a white area. Look at the RGB values there. I see an excess green and red. Pull the green and red channels down a little or use your white balance color picker on that area and see what happens.

TonyW · 02-19-2018, 10:30 AM

My experience of Epson scan software is that it is more than capable of producing fine results with any medium and although not as many options as Silverfast or Vuescan.

IMO the results you are getting are due only to the pre and post scan settings being less than optimal and with a little work you should get quite acceptable results without swapping your scan software.

Happy to look further so if you want to post the same image as a straight scan i.e. as a negative will see what is needed to correct

Swift1 · 02-19-2018, 10:31 AM

Like Tuco said, scanning color negative film is problematic. The auto exposure/color correction in Epson Scan isn't that great and doesn't have film type profiles.
That being said, Epson Scan is actually very good, and allows for more user control than any software I've tried.
Here is the method I use. It's more work, but with a bit of practice you should get much better colors, and I find this method gives the truest interpretation of each particular color film stock.
Getting the most from color negative film with your Epson flatbed. – Photography by Colton Allen

LesDMess · 02-19-2018, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by murrelet

Colors look terrible! I'm wondering how much of the difference is due to

Actually the difference is not much that perhaps a slight adjustment in exposure - notice the burned out sky, and maybe a little contrast and they would be very similar - if not the same.

If you want to see an example of wide difference in color, here is one I have from a minilab Noritsu and my own Coolscan of the same frame of Kodak Gold 100.

You may have noticed I didn't say one or the other as terrible simply because there are no standards in scanning color negatives leaving us to be the judge of it.

murrelet · 02-19-2018, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Swift1

Like Tuco said, scanning color negative film is problematic. The auto exposure/color correction in Epson Scan isn't that great and doesn't have film type profiles.
That being said, Epson Scan is actually very good, and allows for more user control than any software I've tried.
Here is the method I use. It's more work, but with a bit of practice you should get much better colors, and I find this method gives the truest interpretation of each particular color film stock.
Getting the most from color negative film with your Epson flatbed. – Photography by Colton Allen

Thanks, everyone for all the good info. The consensus seems to be that I could do more fiddling with the scanner software settings. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now.

**TomB_tx** · 02-19-2018, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by murrelet

?.. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now.

That's why I stick with processing and scanning B&W, and send out color film.

IgorZ · 02-20-2018, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by murrelet

Thanks, everyone for all the good info. The consensus seems to be that I could do more fiddling with the scanner software settings. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now.

it might be worth trying Silverfast. I think you can download a trial version.

tuco · 02-24-2018, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by murrelet

Thanks, everyone for all the good info. The consensus seems to be that I could do more fiddling with the scanner software settings. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now.

Yeah, that's why negative color at home can be no fun. Kodak has said they want to stay in the film business I hear. Why in the hell don't they make an affordable, high quality scanner with excellent software that has modern color film profiles to get through that orange mask and balance well automagically? They'd get more people shooting film and thereby sell more film. You practically have to be a color expert to scan color negative film, it seems.

LesDMess · 02-24-2018, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Kodak has said they want to stay in the film business I hear. Why in the hell don't they make an affordable, high quality scanner with excellent software that has modern color film profiles to get through that orange mask and balance well automagically?

I believe they did - Kodak Pakon. Long since discontinued but I see some posts showing the results which look pretty good. Now with recent re-releases of films would they release a new scanner?

timw4mail · 02-26-2018, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by tuco

Yeah, that's why negative color at home can be no fun. Kodak has said they want to stay in the film business I hear. Why in the hell don't they make an affordable, high quality scanner with excellent software that has modern color film profiles to get through that orange mask and balance well automagically? They'd get more people shooting film and thereby sell more film. You practically have to be a color expert to scan color negative film, it seems.

I suppose that depends on whether you care to get the exact colors captured, compared to having something that looks good enough. My experience has been that slide film is actually more difficult to color match, because the shadows are so much more dense than on a negative, making the actual scanning more frustrating.

Often, I've found that Digikam's auto levels smooths out bad colors, but that's another post-process step.

02-18-2018, 11:33 PM	#1
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506	What's wrong with my color scans? I've been getting my C-41 film developed and scanned by a local lab. I've been happy with their scans. 6-ish MP scans cost $7.50 a roll (35mm or 120). With processing, that amounts to $11.25 per roll. I recently acquired an Epson V550 scanner, mainly because I had been unhappy with the BW scans from the lab. It's been brilliant being able to develop BW on my own and get very high resolution scans that look great. I was hoping to have the lab develop my C-41 rolls and scan at home. But this is what I've been getting, lab scan from their Noritsu S-2 on left, my scan on right: Colors look terrible! I'm wondering how much of the difference is due to Scanner software color settings (EPSON Scan 3.9.2.2US software) Software itself (should I look into SilverFast?) Need to calibrate the scanner (I bought the scanner used; previous owner claimed to hardly use it and was almost new) Scanner itself

02-19-2018, 09:39 AM	#5
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,027	You'll have color balance problems scanning negative color film in general. Scanning software usually comes with some color film profiles. If you have a profile that is a good start. If not, let's hope another one works well enough or you have some white, grey or black in your scene to help you manually balance it. In your scan, you have a white area. Look at the RGB values there. I see an excess green and red. Pull the green and red channels down a little or use your white balance color picker on that area and see what happens. Last edited by tuco; 02-19-2018 at 09:45 AM.

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02-19-2018, 01:03 AM	#2
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	I’ve heard the Epson software is limited and you can have color issues, I’ve never used it, but several reviews have mentioned it. I do have extensive experience with Silverfast, which may have a bit of a learning curve, but gives you extensive control of color profiles. Vuescan is another program which I’ve used a little. It appeared to have a good user interface, but there are others here that can comment further on that.

02-19-2018, 03:08 AM	#3
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	I'll second that. I haven't had colour issues with Silverfast. I have had colour issues with my flatbed Canon and Canon software. I can't remember what I did, but basically I had to play around with the settings to get rid of it. I had a greenish cast as well.

02-19-2018, 04:29 AM	#4
antipattern Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 232	The Epson software's results depend a lot on the settings. If I remember correctly, there were settings for brightness/exposure and colour correction. Depending on the film, you might get different colour accuracy. It might be worth playing with the settings first.

02-19-2018, 10:30 AM	#6
TonyW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 706	My experience of Epson scan software is that it is more than capable of producing fine results with any medium and although not as many options as Silverfast or Vuescan. IMO the results you are getting are due only to the pre and post scan settings being less than optimal and with a little work you should get quite acceptable results without swapping your scan software. Happy to look further so if you want to post the same image as a straight scan i.e. as a negative will see what is needed to correct

02-19-2018, 10:31 AM	#7
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Like Tuco said, scanning color negative film is problematic. The auto exposure/color correction in Epson Scan isn't that great and doesn't have film type profiles. That being said, Epson Scan is actually very good, and allows for more user control than any software I've tried. Here is the method I use. It's more work, but with a bit of practice you should get much better colors, and I find this method gives the truest interpretation of each particular color film stock. Getting the most from color negative film with your Epson flatbed. – Photography by Colton Allen

02-19-2018, 04:56 PM	#8
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by murrelet Colors look terrible! I'm wondering how much of the difference is due to Actually the difference is not much that perhaps a slight adjustment in exposure - notice the burned out sky, and maybe a little contrast and they would be very similar - if not the same. If you want to see an example of wide difference in color, here is one I have from a minilab Noritsu and my own Coolscan of the same frame of Kodak Gold 100. You may have noticed I didn't say one or the other as terrible simply because there are no standards in scanning color negatives leaving us to be the judge of it.

02-19-2018, 05:56 PM	#9
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506 Original Poster	Originally posted by Swift1 Like Tuco said, scanning color negative film is problematic. The auto exposure/color correction in Epson Scan isn't that great and doesn't have film type profiles. That being said, Epson Scan is actually very good, and allows for more user control than any software I've tried. Here is the method I use. It's more work, but with a bit of practice you should get much better colors, and I find this method gives the truest interpretation of each particular color film stock. Getting the most from color negative film with your Epson flatbed. – Photography by Colton Allen Thanks, everyone for all the good info. The consensus seems to be that I could do more fiddling with the scanner software settings. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now.

02-19-2018, 07:14 PM	#10
TomB_tx Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	Originally posted by murrelet ?.. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now. That's why I stick with processing and scanning B&W, and send out color film.

02-20-2018, 07:53 AM	#11
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Originally posted by murrelet Thanks, everyone for all the good info. The consensus seems to be that I could do more fiddling with the scanner software settings. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now. it might be worth trying Silverfast. I think you can download a trial version.

02-24-2018, 11:40 AM	#12
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,027	Originally posted by murrelet Thanks, everyone for all the good info. The consensus seems to be that I could do more fiddling with the scanner software settings. Unfortunately, that might mean more time spent in front of the computer than I'm willing to spend (which is a lot of the appeal of analog photography for myself). I'm probably going to set aside this learning for later and continue with the lab scans for now. Yeah, that's why negative color at home can be no fun. Kodak has said they want to stay in the film business I hear. Why in the hell don't they make an affordable, high quality scanner with excellent software that has modern color film profiles to get through that orange mask and balance well automagically? They'd get more people shooting film and thereby sell more film. You practically have to be a color expert to scan color negative film, it seems.

02-24-2018, 01:30 PM	#13
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by tuco Kodak has said they want to stay in the film business I hear. Why in the hell don't they make an affordable, high quality scanner with excellent software that has modern color film profiles to get through that orange mask and balance well automagically? I believe they did - Kodak Pakon. Long since discontinued but I see some posts showing the results which look pretty good. Now with recent re-releases of films would they release a new scanner?

02-26-2018, 09:36 AM	#14
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by tuco Yeah, that's why negative color at home can be no fun. Kodak has said they want to stay in the film business I hear. Why in the hell don't they make an affordable, high quality scanner with excellent software that has modern color film profiles to get through that orange mask and balance well automagically? They'd get more people shooting film and thereby sell more film. You practically have to be a color expert to scan color negative film, it seems. I suppose that depends on whether you care to get the exact colors captured, compared to having something that looks good enough. My experience has been that slide film is actually more difficult to color match, because the shadows are so much more dense than on a negative, making the actual scanning more frustrating. Often, I've found that Digikam's auto levels smooths out bad colors, but that's another post-process step.