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04-07-2018, 06:43 PM - 2 Likes   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin B123 Quote
so i'm also thinking is it me or the C41 process?, since nothing I have had developed in the last year matches the output (from memory) of past decades.
You or the C41? Inspect your negs. Compare the edge numbering (above and/or below the sprocket holes) to previously well processed negs. Is it dark like the others, or is it lighter? That would indicate if the developer was good or not. The orange stain being a bit dark or fogged would indicate weak blix (bleach-fixer).

If all is good, then it is either you or the scanning. Do the negs themselves look washed out although the edge numbering is good? Then it was underexposed and it is the camera or your exposure if it is manual.

If the negs donʻt look washed out, then it is the scanning.

04-07-2018, 07:57 PM   #17
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It looks to me like the lab did you an injustice. I process and scan my own color film and even Fuji 200, expired by 8 years looks better than the scans you received.





The second shot is Kodak Ultra Color, which was also expired. Both were developed in fresh C41 in my kitchen. Cost to me is about $30 for 10 rolls, with diminished quality for each roll after that. Of course there is the time invested, but that is enjoyable.

Now I need to mix a new batch of C41, I've got a couple of rolls to develop.
04-08-2018, 07:52 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
You or the C41? Inspect your negs. Compare the edge numbering (above and/or below the sprocket holes) to previously well processed negs. Is it dark like the others, or is it lighter? That would indicate if the developer was good or not. The orange stain being a bit dark or fogged would indicate weak blix (bleach-fixer).

If all is good, then it is either you or the scanning. Do the negs themselves look washed out although the edge numbering is good? Then it was underexposed and it is the camera or your exposure if it is manual.

If the negs donʻt look washed out, then it is the scanning.
I have to take back what I said about not having any good C41 with an SLR, I forgot that last year I had some good Superia 200 (different lab!) through the P30T before it started skipping every other shot. So I have compared them and the Superia is much better, the edge markings are darker for a start.
The upper negative is Superia 200, the lower image is Kodak Colorplus 200 containing the image above. I think I can conclude these are underdeveloped films.

Putting a loupe on, I also notice that both good and bad negs have surface residues, less on the Fujifilm but a similar pattern to the Kodak, where it is possibly not washed off. A moot point.
I am using the previous again lab next time.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Twilhelm, Nice images and colours, just what I would have hoped for.
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04-08-2018, 12:32 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin B123 Quote
I think I can conclude these are underdeveloped films.
Glad you posted the photo of the two negs. I agree that the lower neg was underdeveloped, either due to exhausted developer, over-diluted developer, low developer temp, or short development time. Even with machine processing, any of these can happen if pumps, heating elements, etc, are not maintained and tested regularly.....and chems can go bad if stored for too long or improperly before using.

Let us know how it goes with the same film, same camera & lens, same photographer, but new lab.

04-08-2018, 12:56 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Let us know how it goes with the same film, same camera & lens, same photographer, but new lab.
Will do. I am using up a roll of Ilford Delta 400 at the moment and I have one Colorplus 200 roll exposed for development, so it will be in a couple of weeks I hope.
I'll do another comparison shot with the bad strip above.
Thanks everyone for your time and contributions, at least I know where the fault lies and can avoid it again.
04-25-2018, 11:28 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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I wrote an email complaint to the lab and they replied asking for the negatives to be returned for review. I did that and have now received a new set of higher res scans and prints that look much better. So I'm happy now for this set.
Whether they tweaked the scans in post I don't know, I think they might have.
For my next rolls, I will still use the other lab and post back on those.
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04-25-2018, 01:55 PM   #22
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That looks much better
06-08-2018, 06:40 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
íve seen results like this even in the last heyday of film. I had ten rolls from a vacation in Scotland ruined by processing at a Costco, circa 2002. Scanning them myself could do little to rescue the images as they were running exhausted chemistry and the negs were thin and extremely low contrast.

Since then, every important shoot goes to a local lab I trust, who has a reasonable volume of pros, students and dedicated amateurs to maintain top quality. It means paying almost $20 a roll for processing and scanning, but itís worth it.

Black and white I started developing myself - but color I shoot infrequently and itís usually important (weddings and portraits) so it goes straight to that lab.
This is right on the money IMO.

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Let us know how it goes with the same film, same camera & lens, same photographer, but new lab.
So to round out this thread, here are the results with a new lab. This one I have used before and who are generally trusted.

Same (well in date) Kodak Colorplus 200 film stock & camera but different lenses: DA 70 (original film) Vs DA18-55 @24 (new film).

The original film is the top in these images.

For the first image I have adjusted levels to make the darker strips from the 'new' lab stand out, the second is an unadjusted raw conversion.

The conclusion is that it was underdeveloped, but to a degree that it could be recovered with a high resolution scan and post processing. It was a surprise to me (but not to the initiated) how much more could be gained from a better scan, the files become more malleable.

Many thanks to everyone who replied.

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06-08-2018, 09:16 AM   #24
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I agree with your follow up.

Is the Gold 100 expired film? It won't be identical to the 200 ISO above it, but should be much closer to that orange stain. Usually that browner color stain is typical of out of date film or heat damage. That will also skew color balance and contrast on the scans.
06-08-2018, 01:49 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
s the Gold 100 expired film?
My apologies for confusing the issue, you are correct.
I selected the wrong film for the images above. Yes the Gold 100 was expired, although I don't know by how much.
I'll take a look at the Colorplus film tomorrow, damn I should have noticed that.
06-08-2018, 03:33 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin B123 Quote
Yes the Gold 100 was expired, although I don't know by how much.
Low ISO films have a much longer shelf life than higher ISO film, but storage temperature, or even short exposure to heat can quickly age any film.

Either this Gold 100 was very old, or it was stored at room temperature with some periods of warmer temps. Storing in a fridge, or in very long term cases a freezer, will greatly reduce the aging process.
06-09-2018, 10:55 AM - 1 Like   #27
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Using expired color film is just not worth the gamble IMO.
However I often get good results with expired black and white film.

Chris
06-10-2018, 02:44 AM   #28
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Another good read: https://luminous-landscape.com/articleImages/CameraScanning.pdf
06-10-2018, 03:51 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by pixelsaurus Quote
Another good read
Thanks for sharing. That's pretty involved and great that the authors have taken the trouble to write it up and put it out there.

I do not anticipate getting into home scanning for time and cost involved, but have made a note in case I choose this route in future.
06-10-2018, 08:27 AM   #30
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Scanning at home can be simple or as complex as you choose.

For around $100 you can buy an Epson flatbed photo scanner.
The included Epson software is simple but works perfectly well.

Chris
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