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05-07-2018, 03:31 AM   #1
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The Missing Darkroom

I'm about to develop my first 35mm B&W film in I suppose 40 years or more and I don't have a darkroom anymore, its now the utility room and I'm not yet senile enough to suggest converting it back.

I'm in the process of blacking out my garden shed but it's taking longer than anticipated, it's also full of wood dust as its where I do my woodwork so I foresee more than the usual dust problems.

So I've been wondering about using a changing bag to load film into my Paterson Universal Self Loading Tank, if memory serves me correctly it was never that self loading and it usually took me more than one go to get the film in properly. I've got an uneasy feeling that a changing bag, even the largest, has the potential to turn one into a homicidal maniac.

Has any one used changing bags for tank loading and if so what are your opinions.

Also is there a better developing tank than the Paterson, it was I think the go to model in the 60's when I bought it.

I know I'm going to be scanning the negs into the computer and not enlarging them.

Thank you.

CD

05-07-2018, 03:40 AM   #2
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Garbage bag works just as well.
Patterson Tanks and reels....takes me back. I could still do it in my sleep.
If you have doubts practice on an old processed negative to get it to engage with the reel.
05-07-2018, 03:50 AM   #3
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I use a changing bag to load my reels and tanks. Both plastic reels and stainless steel. I have a large 1 - 6 35mm reel tank (adjustable piston for number of reels) for my motorized roller. I forget the brand.

Get a large bag, put all the materials and tools you need inside - tank, cover, reels, scissors, bottle opener for the film cassettes, rolls of film. Zip it up, insert your hands and go to work. Nothing to it really. You're doing it all by touch in the darkroom anyway. And you don't have to worry hunting around in the dark for stuff that fell off the table - there's no place for it to go. Just keep the rolls of film on one side and all the trash (empty cassettes, spools, cut leaders) to the other.
05-07-2018, 06:23 AM   #4
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I tend to get stressed out if I try to do too much at once in a changing bag. The space is confining compared to a proper darkroom, and things can get sweaty on a hot day. I'm using stainless steel reels and tanks with capacities of one, two, and four reels. What works for me is to load no more than two reels at a time. Loading the one and two reel tanks is a one-step operation. When I load the four reel tank I do two reels at a time: I put the four reel tank, two films, and two reels into the bag, spool the film onto the reels, and load them into the tank. I then close the tank, open the bag and refill it with the other two films and reels, and repeat the loading process.

05-07-2018, 07:17 AM   #5
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For film developing I used:
1) An ancient adjustable tank and reel made of Bakelite by Federal. It belonged to my father who never mastered loading it, and neither did I.
2) A Kodak Hobbyist tank that had a plastic strip, the length of a 36 exposure roll, that had corrugated edges. You rolled it up with the film and the corrugations kept the plastic & film separated allowing chemicals to circulate. Sounds untrustworthy, but in fact it was both easy to use and foolproof once in the tank. Downside: a perforated metal disc had to be placed atop in the tank to keep the roll tight, and the tank had to be swirled but not inverted to circulate the chemicals.
3) a Kinderman stainless steel tank, reels, and loading device I used for 120 roll film. The loader had a pin onto which the reel slipped, and a metal thing than pinched the film as it entered. The reels had a little lug that acted as a handle to turn or crank the reel and wind the film into place. There were other little features tricky to described. When it worked right, it worked right, but getting the film in, seated, and started was a bit tricky, and not foolproof.
4) Nikkor stainless steel tanks and reels for 35mm, regarded back then as the "professional standard." A little tricky to handle, but if you got the knack of pinching the film just enough to feed into the reels properly, it worked fine. If you got the knack.
5) Patterson adjustable plastic reels and tanks, film loaded by twisting the two sides of a reel back-and-forth once you got the end of the film started at the opening where tiny balls caught the holes along the edges of 35mm film and ratcheted it into place.

Of these systems, The Kodak was the simplest and most foolproof, but you always worried about whether the chemicals were circulating properly (the answer seemed to be yes). Second best was the Patterson ratcheting system. Once you got the end of the film inserted at the start, it worked well, BUT I found it best to do standing, with the film dangling whenever possible (not enough weight in the central spool toward the end of the roll, but it didn't matter then). For loading in a changing bag, which I did sometimes, either the Kodak system or the Nikkor "standard" reels were easiest to manipulate.

I still have much of that developing equipment, as well as trays and a print washing tank, enlarger focusers and a couple enlarging lenses. Anyone willing to pay the shipping can have whatever they'd like for free.

OH. And the four foot by eight foot darkroom I constructed in the basement, with a large sink and running water, and a vent fan, it still there, but it would be awkward and excessively expensive to ship.

Last edited by WPRESTO; 05-07-2018 at 07:24 AM.
05-07-2018, 07:17 AM   #6
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I also lost my darkroom to family needs decades ago, but finally remodeled the kids old bath so it could convert to guest bath or darkroom, with the enlarger staying set up in a custom cabinet. But for film processing I now just use a changing bag with a small stainless tank and reels. I find it just as easy as in darkness. It saves checking for light leaks when putting up the window baffles.
05-07-2018, 12:11 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by PenPusher Quote
Has any one used changing bags for tank loading and if so what are your opinions.

Also is there a better developing tank than the Paterson
Changing bags are okay, but if you can find a used changing tent, it's a lot nicer.

Harrison Pup Film Changing Tent 1000 B&H Photo Video

If at all possible, find a cool air conditioned place to work in as inexperience and frustration can lead to sweat and then it just gets harder to load the dampened film.

Everyone has their preferences, but the Paterson tanks and reels are my favorite.

05-07-2018, 01:08 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Changing bags are okay, but if you can find a used changing tent, it's a lot nicer.

Harrison Pup Film Changing Tent 1000 B&H Photo Video

If at all possible, find a cool air conditioned place to work in as inexperience and frustration can lead to sweat and then it just gets harder to load the dampened film.

Everyone has their preferences, but the Paterson tanks and reels are my favorite.
I had no Idea such a thing existed, it should give you plenty of working room.

Since I started this I stumbled across the Agfa Rondinax 35 and 60 daylight loading developing tanks, 35 for 35mm and 60 for Medium Format 120 film. I think they stopped making them sometime back in the 1970's and a vague memory says they were very expensive at the time. Apparently you basically attached the 35mm film leader to a strap, close the door, wind a knob which pulls it into a developing spiral, cut the film at the cassette mouth with a special gadget, pour in the developer and away you go. The ones on offer are not cheap and don't look in great condition.

Further poking around on the net I came across this company lab-box.it in Italy who have designed a modern version which will be on sale this August, looks quite an interesting gadget.

---------- Post added 05-07-2018 at 09:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote

Get a large bag, put all the materials and tools you need inside - tank, cover, reels, scissors, bottle opener for the film cassettes, rolls of film. Zip it up, insert your hands and go to work. Nothing to it really. You're doing it all by touch in the darkroom anyway. And you don't have to worry hunting around in the dark for stuff that fell off the table - there's no place for it to go. Just keep the rolls of film on one side and all the trash (empty cassettes, spools, cut leaders) to the other.
That sounds a reasonable way of working, I had forgotten about the dropping stuff on the floor routine

---------- Post added 05-07-2018 at 09:19 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
5) Patterson adjustable plastic reels and tanks, film loaded by twisting the two sides of a reel back-and-forth once you got the end of the film started at the opening where tiny balls caught the holes along the edges of 35mm film and ratcheted it into place.

I still have much of that developing equipment, as well as trays and a print washing tank, enlarger focusers and a couple enlarging lenses. Anyone willing to pay the shipping can have whatever they'd like for free.

OH. And the four foot by eight foot darkroom I constructed in the basement, with a large sink and running water, and a vent fan, it still there, but it would be awkward and excessively expensive to ship.
I'd forgotten about the ratcheting work with the Patterson, I have just put my tank to soak in the sink as there seemed to be some sort of residue around the bottom reel.

Don't ever get rid of it, the minute you do an absolute need for it will arise.

I'll have to pass on the free darkroom offer as this house sits on more or less solid rock (limestone isn't all that reliable) and the noise of digging a hole in it would upset the neighbours.

---------- Post added 05-07-2018 at 09:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
I now just use a changing bag with a small stainless tank and reels. I find it just as easy as in darkness. It saves checking for light leaks when putting up the window baffles.
My problem was the kids, the downstairs toilet opened off the utility and no matter how many times you told them it was out of bounds they still...........

---------- Post added 05-07-2018 at 09:27 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by cpk Quote
I tend to get stressed out if I try to do too much at once in a changing bag. The space is confining compared to a proper darkroom, and things can get sweaty on a hot day. I'm using stainless steel reels and tanks with capacities of one, two, and four reels. What works for me is to load no more than two reels at a time. Loading the one and two reel tanks is a one-step operation. When I load the four reel tank I do two reels at a time: I put the four reel tank, two films, and two reels into the bag, spool the film onto the reels, and load them into the tank. I then close the tank, open the bag and refill it with the other two films and reels, and repeat the loading process.
I usually only developed one film at a time but I can see how you would get stressed out particularly if something went wrong, fortunately I could quietly vanish down to the shed and do the loading there in peace and quiet.

Last edited by PenPusher; 05-07-2018 at 01:28 PM.
05-07-2018, 02:13 PM   #9
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The one-hour labs used to have glove box changing boxes. Maybe you can find one on the used market.
05-07-2018, 06:37 PM   #10
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I bought a used small changing tent but a large changing bag works well too.

Make sure tank and reel(s) are super dry; hit them for a minute or two with a blow dryer if necessary.
Sit in a comfortable chair, spread changing bag out on table, place all required items inside, then put your hands through the cuffs.
Most importantly RELAX! Sweating won't help anything.

It may be useful to practice with a scrap roll several times before you develop your first roll...

Chris
05-07-2018, 09:11 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
2) A Kodak Hobbyist tank that had a plastic strip, the length of a 36 exposure roll, that had corrugated edges. You rolled it up with the film and the corrugations kept the plastic & film separated allowing chemicals to circulate. Sounds untrustworthy, but in fact it was both easy to use and foolproof once in the tank. Downside: a perforated metal disc had to be placed atop in the tank to keep the roll tight, and the tank had to be swirled but not inverted to circulate the chemicals.
.
I never knew about these until I bought someone’s darkroom recently, but he had a set. Wow, I love these! Very simple and no stress loading. I’ve thought about getting a hole puncher and punching a hole every inch in the center of the strip to encourage chemical circulation, but then I worry about whether it will weaken it and it will fall apart. You can find these on eBay easily by searching for kodacraft. I’ve found that the rolls and metal plate fit fine in a standard 2-roll stainless processing can, which I already had, so I use it in that which allows me to do full inversions. I’m now trying to find some 120 aprons so I can use them for my 67 rolls, but those seem to be much less common.
05-08-2018, 01:48 AM   #12
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If you can wait until august there is a new daylight tank from ars imago funded on KickStarter...
05-08-2018, 04:19 AM   #13
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I found this on YouTube about the Rondinax 35U, the only snag I can see is the necessity for continuous cranking of the film during development. The commentary is in English



---------- Post added 05-08-2018 at 12:20 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
If you can wait until august there is a new daylight tank from ars imago funded on KickStarter...
I found that a while back but the date seems to be frequently changing.
05-14-2018, 03:57 PM   #14
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I picked up a Eastman Kodak Day-Load device a while back, it only does 35mm. Once you have the leader retrieved, you simply thread it in into a plastic spiral that's part of the device, and start turning. It even includes a cutter to cut the film from the cassette once it's loaded. You do have to turn the knob pretty much the entire time you're developing, but it's not a huge deal. I've thought about buying a lego mindstorm or kinetic kit and rigging up something to do it for me, but I try not to be that lazy.

Mine was mid century production (I want to say 1956), and worked great. If you only need to develop one roll, it works quite well. If you've got 4 or 5 to do, then not so much, but that could be said of small single or double roll tanks too.

Last edited by jenrick; 05-14-2018 at 04:17 PM. Reason: gra
05-15-2018, 09:44 AM   #15
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My favorite setup is Hewes reels in a Kinderman tank. Kinderman tanks flow chemistry in and out better than other plastic lid/stainless tank combos. Hewes reels have 2 very sturdy sprocket hole pins that make it much harder to load the film crooked. For 120 I use a Patterson style tank, as I have had better luck loading that size than with stainless tanks.

I’ve always had the luxury of a darkroom to work in while developing film, so I will let others comment on changing bags, et cetera, as I may be shopping for one soon.
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