Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-19-2018, 12:46 PM   #1
Senior Member
Russell W. Barnes's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Near Penrith, Cumbria, England UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 240
Kodak Tri-X in Ilfotec DD-X: Agitation Query

Peeps,

I'm going to try a roll of Kodak Tri-X in Ilfotec DD-X but am at odds with the agitation times. Do I agitate as per Ilford instruction for their films (4 inversions for first ten secs then four inversions each minute thereafter) or do I agitate as per Kodak state on their film datasheet (once per second for five seconds initially then five 1-sec inversions every thirty secs)? I'll be rating it at 400 ISO as per the box and using the time of the Massive Development Chart. I use a Paterson tank and 300ml of chemicals.

I guess what I'm asking is whether agitation is specific to the type of film irrespective of developer used, or does developer influence agitation irrespective of film? Or is it a bit of both? All advice appreciated!

06-19-2018, 01:03 PM - 1 Like   #2
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
twilhelm's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florida
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,355
Experimentation will lead to the best results.

Having said that, I use what the developer recommends as a starting point. I say that because if you were to use Rodinal and agitate according to Kodak, every 30 seconds, you will get negatives that are very dense and with extremely high contrast.
06-19-2018, 01:41 PM   #3
Senior Member
Russell W. Barnes's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Near Penrith, Cumbria, England UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 240
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote
Experimentation will lead to the best results.
Thanks for that - that's what I expect to do, but it will take some time (and film!) to acquire a portfolio of notes. I suspect your advice on developer recommendation is the safest bet so I'll probably stick with that. Am I correct in supposing five seconds' agitation every thirty secs will affect the film the same as ten seconds every minute? I'm going to have a go at some AgfaPhoto APX 100 too, so with 8 mins (TriX) and 10.5 mins (Agfa) development time (20 degrees) maybe every thirty secs or twice as long every minute doesn't matter?


Interesting to find out!
06-19-2018, 02:26 PM   #4
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
twilhelm's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florida
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,355
QuoteOriginally posted by Russell W. Barnes Quote
Thanks for that - that's what I expect to do, but it will take some time (and film!) to acquire a portfolio of notes. I suspect your advice on developer recommendation is the safest bet so I'll probably stick with that. Am I correct in supposing five seconds' agitation every thirty secs will affect the film the same as ten seconds every minute? I'm going to have a go at some AgfaPhoto APX 100 too, so with 8 mins (TriX) and 10.5 mins (Agfa) development time (20 degrees) maybe every thirty secs or twice as long every minute doesn't matter?


Interesting to find out!
You will get different results doubling the agitation every minute instead of 30 seconds, but that will depend on the developer.

06-19-2018, 07:43 PM   #5
Pentaxian
disconnekt's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,220
I would say try one roll with the Illford instructions & one roll with the Kodak instructions and see how the the results.
06-19-2018, 10:54 PM   #6
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,058
QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote
I use what the developer recommends as a starting point.
I agree that I'd default to the developer recommendation more than the film.

I've never tried Tri-X with DD-X. Tri-X works well with D76 or XTOL, and DD-X from my experience is optimized with Ilford Delta films. If you like Ilford chems and Kodak Tri-X, I'd recommend ID-11. If you really want to use Kodak with DD-X, try Tmax instead.
06-19-2018, 11:37 PM   #7
Senior Member
Russell W. Barnes's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Near Penrith, Cumbria, England UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 240
Original Poster
Thanks all for suggestions so far. I guess everything will work, but some combinations will work better. Once I've got through my bottle of DD-X I was going to try Rodinal and see where I got with that. I read that it lasts a long time, which suits me. I've always used Ilford and Tri-X black-and-white neg film but was keen to give Agfa a go and maybe Fomapan just to see for myself.

There's a 'Holy Grail' element to all this: A photo is a great photo, until you see a better one!
06-20-2018, 04:08 AM - 1 Like   #8
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
WPRESTO's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 46,368
QuoteOriginally posted by Russell W. Barnes Quote
There's a 'Holy Grail' element to all this: A photo is a great photo, until you see a better one!

I will remark, as I have several times in the past, in the film era Tri X primarily developed in D-76 had a "look" = a combination of detail, contrast and grain that was regarded as near-perfect for some kinds of photography. That is part of the reason why Tri-X is still available.

06-20-2018, 06:41 AM   #9
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
twilhelm's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florida
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,355
QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I will remark, as I have several times in the past, in the film era Tri X primarily developed in D-76 had a "look" = a combination of detail, contrast and grain that was regarded as near-perfect for some kinds of photography. That is part of the reason why Tri-X is still available.
This is very true. Just as the “look” acquired with APX in Rodinal, even though the originals are no longer available. I’ve developed Tri-X in D76, HC-110 and Rodinal, and only D76 gave it that “Kodak look” even though I liked the other results.
06-20-2018, 11:22 AM - 1 Like   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2018
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,253
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
If you like Ilford chems and Kodak Tri-X, I'd recommend ID-11.
Kodak D76 and Ilford ID-11 are the same developer. Same recipe, same results.
06-20-2018, 01:19 PM   #11
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,058
QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Kodak D76 and Ilford ID-11 are the same developer. Same recipe, same results.
This is 99.9% true, except that D76 comes premixed and thus Kodak uses agents to prevent oxidation and other issues vs. ID-11 that does not need it because it is not premixed, but comes with a part A and B.

Essentially they are interchangeable assuming the age of D76 is not too old or exposed to hot storage and that the ID-11 is well mixed.

Of all the general developers, I feel Kodak XTOL is a notch above both D76 and ID11. For Kodak TMax, I swear by Tmax developer and for Ilford Delta, DD-X, although I know the chems in XTOL and DD-X are essentially equivalent.
06-21-2018, 07:17 AM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 9,098
If you are using Ilford's development time for the film, you agitate per their instructions. The established development time of a film is a function of the agitation profile used. And the same goes with any other developer. Of course two seemingly different agitation profiles could essentially be equivalent and in which case it doesn't matter if the developers behave in a similar matter.
06-21-2018, 02:51 PM   #13
Senior Member
Russell W. Barnes's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Near Penrith, Cumbria, England UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 240
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
If you are using Ilford's development time for the film, you agitate per their instructions.

Thanks for that. I've just ordered a 1-litre mix of ID-11 to have a go with and according to the data sheet, the Ilford-recommended agitation is identical to that for DD-X (and indeed for Perceptol and Microphen). I feel more confident now.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
developer, film, five, kodak, kodak tri-x, photography, tri-x, tri-x in ilfotec
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kodak Tri-X 400 or T-Max 400? Spodeworld Pentax Film SLR Discussion 15 09-28-2017 03:20 PM
Black & White Old Kodak Tri X Portrait crabby Post Your Photos! 2 07-30-2014 05:41 AM
Question Where dd multi quote and likes go in the user groups Lowell Goudge Site Suggestions and Help 1 01-01-2013 02:37 PM
Blast from the past: Kodak Tri-Chem Pack ChrisPlatt Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 15 04-30-2012 05:13 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:07 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top